Talk:Roger Maris

NPOV?

"Although his record was subsequently broken, some believe that those records set by both Mark McGwire and Barry Bonds should be invalid, due to their likely use of performance enhancing substances." Especiall in the intro? Schmidtr1

I agree, that sentence you quoted above needs to go. The opening paragraph is supposed to have some basic biographical information about Maris, not about McGwire and Bonds' records being invalidated. SaxofoneDL

"Although his record was subsequently broken, some believe that those records set by both Mark McGwire and Barry Bonds should be invalid, due to their possible use of performance enhancing substances."

I've removed this as it is not neutral and has tenuous relevance to the first paragraph. If phrased properly it seems ok to be mentioned in the article as a whole. Mglovesfun 14:18, 27 August 2006 (UTC)

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Roger Maris Was more than a man he was a Legend, a father, husband and a brother. Every one on the 1959 Yankee team was his brother.

Mglovesfun 00:04, 28 August 2006 (UTC)

Hilariously inappropriate for an encyclopedia. What makes it even funnier is that he wasn't on the Yankees in 1959.

Sean 2006 —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 69.209.49.19 (talk • contribs) 16:05, March 11, 2006 (UTC)

Birthname

The claim that Roger Maris was born "Roger Eugene Maras" (with two "a"s rather than an "i") seems dubious. The average reader of this article is going to doubt the spelling and be tempted to change it to "Maris."

If "Maras" is, in fact, correct (which it seems to be, as it gets 70 or so google hits), it needs a citation.

Jwadeg 05:21, 30 March 2006 (UTC)

Awards, honors, and life after baseball

I wonder if it would appropriate to mention that Roger Maris is not in the Baseball Hall of Fame. The controversy over alleged doping of modern "home-run kings" may also be of note. Bzuk 06:04, 16 September 2006

Unlike the great Babe Ruth and Mickey Mantle, Roger Maris was not a particularly strong hitter. Check the stats and you will see what I mean. Thegreatjefftaylor 10:18, 14 May 2007 (UTC)

I removed "On September 26,1991, a Committee for Statistical Accuracy removed the asterisk from Maris' record. The record stood separated from Ruth's record for 30 years (1962-1991). With the removal of the asterisk, Maris was the sole owner of the single season home run record with 61." This is inaccurate. See above in the article; there never was an actual asterisk.

Hall of Fame/Mathematics

Those two sections seem pretty pointless. Delete? —Preceding unsigned comment added by Hallofamer2000 (talk • contribs) 06:58, 17 July 2008 (UTC)

Trivia

Could someone tell me how in God's name mentioning that Roger was Julio Navarro's 1st strikeout victim is worthy of mentioning, even in a trivia section? I mean my God, who the heck is Julio Navarro & who the heck cares (it would seem that a relative or friend of the Navarros has been here adding stuff given that he has an article on here & it is longer than some real celebrities despite an uneventful & undistinguished career)? If you are going to include stuff like that in the trivia section, you might want to add what he had for lunch on December 13, 1953 too. Frankly, that might be more interesting than the "fact" that some nobody pitcher recorded his first strikeout against him. no. sick of the crap.

Such an event is noteworthy on Julio Navarro's article, but not Roger Maris'. Kingturtle (talk) 20:18, 24 November 2008 (UTC)

In Defense of the Asterisk

In 1927, the baseball season consisted of 154 games. In 1961, it contained 162 games. It is an undisputed fact that, when 154 games had been played in 1961, Roger Maris had only 59 home runs, which was one fewer than Babe Ruth had obtained in the same number of games. Given enough time, anyone can get any number of home runs. If the season had been expanded to 200 games, and Maris did not get his 61st home run until the 200th game, would people still regard that as exceeding Babe Ruth's accomplishment? John Paul Parks (talk) 15:55, 26 February 2009 (UTC)

A season is a season. Does the NFL make distinctions for its records for things like rushing and passing yardage, based on whether the season is 10,11,12,13,14 or 16 games? I don't think so. And don't blame Maris for the extra 8 games. The Lords of Baseball did that, and then pulled one of the stupidest P.R. gaffes of all time. Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} 17:37, 26 February 2009 (UTC)

And another thing... When Babe Ruth hit 29 homers in 1919, everyone cheered, because he broke the previous record! Ned Williamson had hit 27 in 1884, and Ruth broke it! Yeah! But hold on thar, Baba Looey... Williamson hit his 27 in a mere 112-game season. Yet nobody yelped about that, because "a season is a season"... and because they didn't have idiots like Ford Frick running the game's P.R. machine in those days. Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} 17:44, 26 February 2009 (UTC)

It is often overlooked that the National League continued to play a 154-game schedule for the 1961 season. Not to say that Frick was correct in his "seperate records" stance, but it was another factor in his decision.68.60.139.230 (talk) 20:35, 26 February 2009 (UTC)

There was only one factor in Frick's decision, and that was to punish anyone who would dare to approach his buddy's record, by raising an artificial and unfair hurdle. Baseball in those days was clueless when it came to P.R. They've learned a little bit over the years since. Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} 20:39, 26 February 2009 (UTC)

I'm not arguing that Frick's opinion was ridiculous, just stating that MLB gave this as another reason that there should be seperate record. For the record, I agree that a season is a season. I would also agree that baseball is better at promoting players approaching records today than they were in 1961. But the steroid era, and how our beloved Bud Selig has handled it, shows that they have a long way to go on the PR front68.60.139.230 (talk) 20:49, 26 February 2009 (UTC)

It would not have been a "separate record" if Frick hadn't opened the door to it. It was a non-issue until he brought it up. He made it an issue. Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} 20:51, 26 February 2009 (UTC)

I am of two minds of this. While it is true that Babe Ruth's homerun count is a better technical achievement, the achievement being listed is most homeruns in a season. If the achievement was "most homeruns in the first 154 games", then Babe clearly beat Maris. However, this is not the case. So for all intends and purposes a Season is a Season, end of story. Maris should be given due credit for his achievement. If people care to make distinctions, they can note the number of games played for their personal purposes. This record is a public one of a specific meaning. So lets leave things such that they are. Alyeska (talk) 22:00, 27 February 2009 (UTC)

At the time (I remember it), the 162 game season was thought to be a temporary aberration, that they'd eventually get back to 154 as God Intended.WHPratt (talk) 17:45, 3 March 2009 (UTC)

When Babe Ruth hit 60 home runs, he didn't have to deal with night games. Or road trips to California. Or integration. --Muboshgu (talk) 01:14, 31 July 2009 (UTC)

In barnstorming games played against Negro League stars, Ruth amply demonstrated that he could hit them 500 feet off pitchers of any color. Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots 01:18, 31 July 2009 (UTC)

Which reminds me: Maris didn't have to deal with playing a bunch of extra games, in-season exhibition games, every year as Ruth did. Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots 01:21, 31 July 2009 (UTC)

I'm just playing devil's advocate here. I'm not saying Ruth's 60 were more impressive than Maris' 61 or vice versa. All I'm saying is that the different eras of baseball can't be directly compared. --Muboshgu (talk) 01:37, 31 July 2009 (UTC)

Every era is different, but there are similarities. Maris and Mantle and the Yanks roared through the 1961 season - much as Ruth and Gehrig and the Yankees did in 1927. Ruth didn't face the expansion-diluted pitching that Maris and Mantle did. Maris got 8 extra games. Ruth was an extrovert who loved the attention, and was generally a larger-than-life figure. Maris was a terrific ballplayer who never craved attention. The pressure was much greater on Maris in certain ways. He could handle game pressure, but not the stress of the "chipmunk" press. Ruth had the press eating out of his hand. Ruth had Gehrig batting behind him, which compelled pitchers to throw more strikes to Ruth, many of which landed well over 400 feet away. Maris generally batted behind Mantle (although they swapped later in the season), but with Berra and Skowron coming up next, the pitchers couldn't afford to pitch around Maris in any case. Yankee Stadium was easier to hit home runs in in 1961 than it was in 1927. Maris hit 30 at home and 31 on the road. Ruth hit 28 at home and 32 on the road. Maris tended to hit line drives. Ruth often hit towering blasts, although number 60 was just down the line and just fair (kind of like with McGwire's number 62). If you're interested in an analysis of Ruth's entire career, see if you can find The Year Babe Ruth Hit 104 Home Runs, by a guy named Jenkinson. I think it's still around, in paperback. If you're a fan of home runs, you'll be amazed. Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots 02:00, 31 July 2009 (UTC)

All of that is true. I'll give that book a read, I just finished reading Koppett's Concise History of Major League Baseball, it crammed alot of info into one book. --Muboshgu (talk) 02:52, 31 July 2009 (UTC)

And in case you wonder, I am a big fan of both Ruth and Maris, even though I've never been a Yankees fan as such. Ruth was perhaps the most fascinating character that ever set foot on a ballfield, and certainly the one guy who changed the game more dramatically than anyone else ever has, in my opinion; and Maris was an outstanding (and much underrated) player for whom 1961 was more like a curse. If he could have played his entire career in St. Louis, he would have been a Hall of Famer, I'm sure - though he likely never would have hit 61 homers. It's important to keep in mind that Maris was the league MVP in 1960 - the year before all this brouhaha. He was a rising star who fell into a trap set by the baseball gods, as happens sometimes. Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots 02:58, 31 July 2009 (UTC)

picture

Re: 1961

"One famous photograph lined up six 1961 Yankee players, including Mantle, Maris, Yogi Berra, and Bill Skowron, under the nickname "Murderers Row," because they hit a combined 165 home runs that year."

This is confusing. If the six were Maris (61), Mantle(54), Skowron(28), Berra(22), Howard(21) and Blanchard(21), they indeed totalled 207 home runs in 1961. Someone changed it to 165, and if, oh say, Whitey Ford and Bobby Richardson were the others in the picture, that might have been almost true. Either name all six or let this go.WHPratt (talk) 16:17, 17 July 2009 (UTC)

True. It would be nice if someone provided a link to that "famous" photograph. Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots 01:35, 31 July 2009 (UTC)