Talk:Adolf Hitler

Sexuality and one testicle

I just stumbled to this wikipedia article. I do believe this is discussed to death during the years, but is it really necessarry to put speculation about his sexuality to this article? It looks like the writer wants to degrade him. It is afterall - speculation. Article should be neutral. There is even an article named "Sexuality of Adolf Hitler" which is full of pure speculation! If speculation is sourced, it seems to be OK to wikipedia.. I understand wikipedia reflects the cultural beliefs of its writers, but it should also fight against it for the grand goal of cold and scientific neutrality. As I said, this is probably discussed and decided to be like this, but I just wanted to say what I have to say. If I'm wrong, I'm wrong. 88.114.227.91 (talk) 19:23, 15 July 2010 (UTC)

Article claims that Hitler must have suffered from syphilis since no photos of his torso exist to prove otherwise. By the same argument we can conclude that Hitler, Churchill, Roosevelt, and Mother Theresa all come from the planet Zog, and that the Zoggians have destroyed all the photographic evidence. There must be one ball since no photos exist showing two! Long live Prikipedia, Green Peace and Titus Oates! —Preceding unsigned comment added by 203.29.136.142 (talk) 01:26, 12 August 2010 (UTC)

Crap. Mao Tse Tung is known to have had only one testicle; no other dictator, including Hitler, has ever bee shown to have had fewer than the normal complement of, er, two. Rodhullandemu 01:33, 12 August 2010 (UTC)

Nonsense. The medical examination records of Dr Theodor Morell describe Hitler's reproductive organs as 'entirely normal'. 211.26.198.136 (talk) 07:21, 30 August 2010 (UTC)

Crap whats the source that Mao Tse Tung had one testicle?

"SAMJ: South African Medical Journal - Mao Tse-tung (1893 - 1976): his habits and his health". www.scielo.org.za. Retrieved 2010-09-08. A secondary source, but follow the source they cite. Rodhullandemu 23:38, 7 September 2010 (UTC)

Wikipedia does not need to verify that Hitler did or did not have a second ball for it to be included in an article. Primarily the information needs to be two things. Notable meaning it is a significant fact about Hitler. In this case you seem to be saying many people have argued about it and that argument in itself does make it notable. It also has to be verifiable. In this case that means it is verifiable that people hold the viewpoint hitler has one ball. This is true. As long as it is not framed as a fact but instead as a debated viewpoint fairly presented it's a fine point to make. meitme (talk) 23:14, 22 October 2010 (UTC)meitme

Yea but it is a false claim , the fact that people discussed it doesn't make it a shoe in , as in.. although hitler has two balls a rumour or insult was around that he only had one, there was even a song about it, adolf has only got one ball.... and so on... but it was all false. The idea that it is educational and informative about a man like this with such detail historic detail is missing the whole point of the wikipedia. Off2riorob (talk) 23:21, 22 October 2010 (UTC)

That's the thing if there was a song about Hitler only having only one ball it could be included in an article about him. As long as this song was notable(for example if it was a major hit). But, the writing would be clear to tell the reader of an article that this was a song depicting Hitler with one ball not verifiable historical fact. It would inform people about the song not about the status of Hitler's testicles.

If the information presented in the article is false, biased or misleading in a way please explain why. Please explain why you believe this, in what way the wording is incorrect and hopefully how it could be reworded. If you are presenting facts try to get sources to back up the facts you are presenting.

Now, if you think this section is should no be in the article, at all or in a more limited capacity, This is a very different problem. As there are reference I believe it is verifiable information. But the more important question would be if it was not significant enough to be included. I have absolutely no idea if it is really notable enough to be in this wikipedia article or in the prominence it carries. But, if you are making the argument it is insignificant show that idea not, that an section is wrong.meitme (talk) 00:37, 23 October 2010 (UTC)

Balls, said the queen, if I had them I would king, or if I had one I could be Hitler... 97.116.25.69 (talk) 03:04, 23 October 2010 (UTC)

Images

The images used here (especially the first one) depict a proud Hitler, not even being in need to look into the camera. This must be a well-condidered and selected image taken by Goebbels propagande machinery. I wonder, if there are no non-propaganda images that may even unmask Hitler as a fatuitous politician instead of glorifying him. 78.53.37.1 (talk) 12:25, 20 June 2010 (UTC)

Since images of him were carefully controlled, it is unlikely that we'll find many high quality ones of the type you are asking for. Also, what you are asking for is POV in itself. Wikipedia should reflect the sources available, not our personal opinions. However, it may be preferable to note in image captions when the images are from propaganda sources, or in the main body of the article. (Hohum ^@) 19:26, 24 June 2010 (UTC)

The main images for almost all politicians pages on this site are the official ones. Why should Hitler be any different? Any deviation herein would be propaganda.

--I, Englishman^{Wouldst thou speak? • Handiwork} 01:35, 19 August 2010 (UTC)

The reliable sources avaliable ARE out personal opinions. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 66.183.58.186 (talk) 08:23, 18 September 2010 (UTC)

Hitler was actually a jew but also a rabbi and the pope of New Jersey. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 204.185.92.253 (talk) 14:39, 16 November 2010 (UTC)

Hidden History carefully occulted. Adolf Hitler was not a homosexual but he was bisexual and he used Eva Braun to hide his homosexual inclinations from scrutiny. There were 17 cases in wartime of Hitler "intensely befriending" boy members of the Hitler Youth who once they spent time alone with their Fuhrer in private were never ever seen again. This is fact, recounted by an Italian Diplomat to me in 1963, as he hsad been in his time a confidant of Mussolini who told him, and who explained why the Nazis under Hitlers orders persecuted and sent to not concentration camps but extermination camps any limp wristed member of the public. Others unfortunate enough to be known to him personally were just rounded up and executed, by firing squad, sometimes even at night. Fact.—Preceding unsigned comment added by 212.120.237.236 (talk) 13:41, 2 December 2010 (UTC)

Hitler's names.

Hello,

I'm a french student and I have found an article published in a very famous french scientific magazine Sciences et Avenir in 2009. In the article there was a copy of French "RG"'s file on Adolf Hitler. According to the file, Hitler's full names were Adolf Jacob Hitler. Copy of the file can be easily found on Internet. For now here is a link where a scientific journalist from the magazine answer to a web reader about the truth of Hitler's names (it's in french).http://www.sciencesetavenir.fr/magazine/courrier/096018/l-etrange-fiche-de-police-d-adolf-hitler.html

Best Regards. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 82.196.103.168 (talk) 15:06, 14 September 2010 (UTC)

This is an English-Wiki article, and sources need to be in English. That said, Hitler's life has been researched extensively for decades, and his full name has been established beyond any doubt. Fringe/revisionist source.HammerFilmFan (talk) 00:35, 21 October 2010 (UTC)HammerFilmFan

Actually foregin-language sources are allowed by en.wiki's policy in certain circumstances. If the french source meets the requirements, there is no reason why it should not be cited along with a reliable translation. However, in this case it seems that the article has is no longer available. -- Timberframe (talk) 14:39, 21 November 2010 (UTC)

Yes, French sources are perfectly acceptable. It's not difficult to find this online [1]. There's even a You Tube site [2]. I guess this is a hoax, or just a slip up. It's not reflected in any reliable sources. Paul B (talk) 16:19, 21 November 2010 (UTC)

Can someone tidy up a problematic sentence?

Our article text says:

"Historians who take an intentionist line such as Eberhard Jäckel have argued that at minimum from the time of the 'Prophecy Speech' onwards, Hitler was committed to genocide of the Jews as his central goal."

It's the "at minimum" I'm struggling to interpret. It seems to me that what that is intended to communicate is Hitler had committed to genocide at the latest by the time of the speech. But it could also be read that Hitler had committed to at least genocide (though it does rather raise the question how much further he could have gone, which is why I favour the first interpretation).

I'm not qualified to judge what was meant, so I can't change it. Can anyone tidy up the sentence to make it clear? --bodnotbod (talk) 15:21, 14 September 2010 (UTC)

No, I rather think that "at minimum" here is probably meaning "at least", in the sense of "certainly from this time onwards, but possibly ealier than that" – perhaps it has been used as the result of a misunderstanding by a non-native English speaker of the difference in usage of "minimum" and "least" (which are similar in meaning, but not always interchangeable, as exemplified here). It seems to me that "at minimum" could be deleted without any significant loss or real change of meaning, or it could be changed to "at least", or even "certainly". I don't think that the meaning is "at minimum genocide" since, as you say, it's hard to understand that he could have intended to go any further than genocide here. Moreover, my first interpretation seems to accord with my understanding of Jäckel's thinking on this subject, namely that Hitler's wish to annihilate European Jewry and his belief in the necessity of this action developed gradually, or in stages, and was not fully formed in his mind until relatively late in the 1930s.

Also, as a separate point, I think the sentence would read better as "... Hitler was committed to the genocide of the Jews ...". Ondewelle (talk) 23:03, 16 October 2010 (UTC)

In the absence of any other comments to date, I have changed the sentence to, "Historians who take an intentionist line, such as Eberhard Jäckel, have argued that, at least from the time of the "Prophecy Speech" onwards, Hitler was committed to the genocide of the Jews as his central goal." Ondewelle (talk) 18:02, 22 October 2010 (UTC)

Mental Health

The section about Hitler's Mental Health has no citations. Maybe it should be removed.--Propaganda328 (talk) 21:34, 26 September 2010 (UTC)

I agree unless someone is willing to clean it up I believe removal is the right thing. It could always be added again. It is currently just cluttering the article.meitme (talk) 02:02, 23 October 2010 (UTC)

Dialect

Just curious, the article makes a point of pointing out that Hitler spoke a Lower Bavarian dialect "as opposed to an Austrian one". These two dialects are very closely related (and are nearly identical when looking at where Hitler was born and raised), so what is the point of including that info? JonnyLightning (talk) 16:25, 11 October 2010 (UTC)

Edit request from 71.129.64.226, 20 October 2010

{{edit semi-protected}} There should be a little side note that illustrates what the Axis was and the countries that were involved

71.129.64.226 (talk) 01:16, 20 October 2010 (UTC)

Not done. There are several links to Axis powers already, including one {{main}} link. -Atmoz (talk) 21:07, 20 October 2010 (UTC)

Christianity

Hitler was far from a Christian. Actually some scholars have said that National Socialism was the religion of Nazis. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.205.54.4 (talk) 21:54, 25 October 2010 (UTC)

Edit request from 72.12.166.157, 26 October 2010

{{edit semi-protected}} can i ? 72.12.166.157 (talk) 00:00, 27 October 2010 (UTC)

 Not done: The Adolf Hitler article is protected from editing from IP and new users. If you wish to edit this article yourself, you need to create an account and wait 4 days and contribute 10 edits to other articles. If you have a specfic suggestion for this page and don't want to wait 4 days and 10 edits, feel free to re-use the {{edit semi-protected}} template making a detailed proposal for your edit such as: "Please change X to Y", or "Please add Z after A." Thanks, Stickee (talk) 00:42, 27 October 2010 (UTC)

Edit request from HenryIreton1642, 6 November 2010

{{edit semi-protected}}

The assertion that Hitler conquered Asia and parts of the Pacific is unwarranted and misleading. This was done by his ally, Imperial Japan. The article needs to be edited to reflect this. I suggest deletion of these words. HenryIreton1642 (talk) 21:26, 6 November 2010 (UTC)

Thanks for your comments. The text does presently say that it was Germany and the Axis powers , which appears to be quite correct. Also, could you (and other users requesting an edit) please be a bit more specific as we are all volunteers and it is not easy attempting to understand requests. Perhaps we could change it to ..Germany has this and the axis powers had that...I made an edit to the lede in an attempt to address this edit request.Off2riorob (talk) 22:43, 6 November 2010 (UTC)

Edit request

The paragraph "Attempted Assassination" gives the impression as if only a single an assassination attempt on Hitler occurred. But other wikipedia articles mention several assassination attempts, some as early as 1939.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Georg_Elser http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rudolf_Christoph_Freiherr_von_Gersdorff http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eberhard_von_Breitenbuch http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Axel_von_dem_Bussche http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fritz-Dietlof_von_der_Schulenburg#Attempted_coup_and_sentence http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Henning_von_Tresckow —Preceding unsigned comment added by 79.152.160.55 (talk) 12:06, 17 November 2010 (UTC)

Yes, your right. The section needs perhaps a little expansion or just a mention of the other assassination attempts and internal links to those article, you can write something here if you like and I will add it for you, or anyone could write a couple of line to correct this missing detail. 12:11, 17 November 2010 (UTC)

20 July plot, Rudolf Christoph Freiherr von Gersdorff, Eberhard von Breitenbuch, Axel Freiherr von dem Bussche-Streithorst, Fritz-Dietlof von der Schulenburg ,Henning von Tresckow, Georg Elser .. all these people had a serious attempt to kill him,perhaps a page of its own with a mention of each one .. List of Assassination attempts on Adolf Hitler - comments? Off2riorob (talk) 12:20, 17 November 2010 (UTC)

Adolf Hitler's Y DNA haplogroup

I do not want to get too involved in discussion on this matter. This is just a passing comment. I have done a fair bit of work on E1b1b.

• Can it be sourced? Yes, not with perfect strength, but I think the identification of Hitler's Y DNA type is what would normally be considered reasonably reliable sourcing, so in theory there is no reason not to mention it from the point of view of verifiability. I do think it is perhaps worth attributing as a theory put together by a journalist for the time being, because a newspaper organizing testing of relatives is not perfect. But to be honest the basic testing of Y DNA to this level of information is not cutting edge science anymore today.
• My bigger question would be whether it is notable. The journalist who organized the testing made (or perhaps implied is a better word) some interpretative remarks obviously aimed at making the discovery notable, for example mentioning that Jews and Africans are sometimes in the same haplogroup. This interpretation is pretty poor though. E1b1b is one of the most common haplogroups in Austria. I do not know of any published responses to the journal yet but in the first place this level of interpretation has a higher level of scientific difficulty, and so sourcing should be a bit stricter.

The remark as it is currently in does not mention the interpretation and makes it clear that it was by a journalist, so it is then up to editors of this article to determine whether it is notable enough in that form. Basically it just means Hitler was in a common Y DNA haplogroup that many other Austrians and Germans are in.--Andrew Lancaster (talk) 09:38, 20 November 2010 (UTC)

We went through all this before; very recently. See: Talk:Adolf Hitler/Archive 51. There are WP:FRINGE and WP:VERIFY problems and no consensus to add it at this time. Kierzek (talk) 19:37, 20 November 2010 (UTC)

Just in case it was not clear, I posted the above because I saw it was added in again recently, and given that this shows some disagreement still exists, I thought it might help to give editors of this article some insight into how someone editing E1b1b sees it. I don't see how WP:FRINGE and WP:VERIFY are the issues with any basic report which does not mention Jews and Somalians. There is no mainstream counter theory and nothing controversial about the science of the basic test, or indeed the genealogy work. In any case a journalist is not an unusual source for such investigations. I can imagine it might seem like WP:REDFLAG is an issue, but that would I think be more clear if there was a lot of complex interpretation of the test (the stuff about Jews and Somalians we keep seeing). Here's my point: without the interpretation about Jews and Somalians (which is indeed nonsense) I believe there is then a problem with WP:NOTE, and also a concern that just by including the fact, significance is being implied when in fact E1b1b is common in Austria.--Andrew Lancaster (talk) 14:26, 22 November 2010 (UTC)

Well, yes, I think that's the point. Without the "Hitler was a black Jew" aspect, the story is pretty much meaningless and probably unworthy of mention. Paul B (talk) 14:34, 22 November 2010 (UTC)

I disagree, for two reasons:

* The fact that E1b1b is common in Austria (or even Europe in general) is meaningful, simply because few readers know that it is common. That (in addition to Hitler's fame as a racist) is what makes it interesting and notable: it contextualises Hitler's ideology by linking it to a more general lack of awareness about human history. Are we so timid about challenging preconceptions and putting forward counter-intuitive facts?

* The source is clearly as reliable, if not more so, than others used in this article and those used in many articles.

Grant | Talk 12:06, 30 November 2010 (UTC)

The fact that few readers know it is common is no more relevant than any other obscure and largely meaningless fact that few readers might know. As for Hitler's ideology, the model of race that he would be familiar with are so different from the genealogical information that haplogroups give us that it is difficult to judge what would be a meaningful statement about the relationship between the two. Race in Hitler's day meant a physical "type" which was supposed to represent a definable grouping of people, whose supposed bodily and mental characteristics were sometimes conceived of as primarily adaptive and sometimes as implying a particular genealogy. So I'm unclear what "counter-intuitive facts" we would be putting forward. Paul B (talk) 12:28, 30 November 2010 (UTC)

Paul, I don't think it it is an "obscure" or "largely meaningless" fact.

Regarding Hitler's "model of race", it definitely had its basis in genealogy/"breeding" (i.e. genetics); that, after all was what the word "race" meant originally and when Hitler was alive. (Whereas more recent fascists prefer to use cultural distinctions, in part because they know that DNA research has demonstrated the "exotic"/heterogeneous nature of most humans' ancestry.)

The "counter-intuitive fact" is, in a nutshell, this: non-"Aryan" elements (i.e. Semitic/North African ancestors) in Hitler's family tree were and are completely normal for a Western European. Of course you and I know this; I am trying to put ordinary readers first, rather than well-read Wikipedia editors :-) Grant | Talk 08:15, 1 December 2010 (UTC)

What I am saying is that even racial theorists in Hitler's day had models of ancient population movements that supposed that the "Nordic race" and the "Alpine race" (the ones to which Hitler himself was typically assigned) emerged from earlier ancestors - whether in Asia, North Africa or elsewhere. That's what I meant by race being conceived of as a "type" in which ancestry and adaptive characters combined to create a definite race. Baur, Lenz and Fisher, whose book Human Heredity was the main immediate influence on Hitler's theories, argued that the Nordic race had come into being from pre-Nordic ancestors fairly recently, as a result of adaptation to the harsh northern European environment. In other words the existence of non-Nordic ancestors would not somehow undermine the model, but would be predicted by it. In this model of race, two people could both be "Nordic" even if they had completely different ancestors (far enough back), because the race was created (supposedly) from adaptation, irrespective of very ancient ancestry. Most theorists, of course, assumed that races diverged from one another, and so would likely have some common ancestry at some point in the past. Paul B (talk) 09:56, 1 December 2010 (UTC)

My point is that (regardless of the theory of race) Nazi ideologues clearly regarded any "non-Aryan" ancestors as undesirable (even when they considered that individual cases did not warrant genocide) and that they, often (perhaps mostly) held "one drop" theories of race. That is exactly why individual Nazis (including Hitler) concealed, contested or tried to suppress knowledge/suggestions of such ancestry in their own cases. When more recent science, using techniques that were not available in the 1930s or 40s, shows Hitler to be something that he is famous for holding in contempt, I think that is obviously relevant and interesting to many readers. To a lesser degree, as I have said before, there is added interest because this research refutes misguided, but lingering, misconceptions about the "homogeneity" of the European gene pool. Grant | Talk 06:08, 2 December 2010 (UTC)

Why on the Ancestry bit does the DNA result says "likely" when that is just what the article says which is absolutely rubbish it makes the whole bit of information above it sound hyprotical and stupid.

"Last visit to occupied territory" image

Regarding the side-image which states that the last occupied territory Hitler visited was in Yugoslavia in 1941, is this meant to refer only to brief official visits? Hitler was residing in Vinnitsa, Ukraine for quite a while in 1942 to direct the Caucasus and Stalingrad operations after all. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Morgan Hauser (talk • contribs) 20:59, 21 November 2010 (UTC)

"edit request"

Regarding the beginning of the article. You speak as if the nazis are still active, please edit this out and put that hitler "was" the leader of the nazi party because saying he "is" the leader implies hes still alive or something. The nazi party is still around but it has no power and hitler is surly not alive —Preceding unsigned comment added by F.R Durant (talk • contribs) 08:11, 22 November 2010 (UTC)

What sentence are you referring to? The opening states "Adolf Hitler (German pronunciation: [ˈadɔlf ˈhɪtlɐ]; 20 April 1889 – 30 April 1945) was an Austrian-born German politician and the leader of the National Socialist German Workers Party (German: Nationalsozialistische Deutsche Arbeiterpartei, abbreviated NSDAP), commonly known as the Nazi Party.". Paul B (talk) 13:12, 22 November 2010 (UTC)

sorry, i couldve sworn that i read that on the page but i couldve misread, its fine, sorry —Preceding unsigned comment added by F.R Durant (talk • contribs) 00:44, 23 November 2010 (UTC)

Hitler moves to Munich

In the first sentence of Chap IV of Mein Kampf, Hitler says he moved to Munich in the Spring of 1912. 75.40.144.32 (talk) 22:33, 22 November 2010 (UTC)D. Freund

Whitewash

I would think that some indication that his name is used as a synonym for evil should make it into the first paragraph. --Ezra Wax (talk) 18:41, 26 November 2010 (UTC)

Is this a comment for encyclopedic discussion, have you got a citation? I searched your comment in google, Adolf Hitlers name is used as a synonym for evil and didn't get any real results? Off2riorob (talk) 19:09, 26 November 2010 (UTC)

How about "modern day hitler"? --Ezra Wax (talk) 20:59, 26 November 2010 (UTC)

In the UK we sometimes use the expression tin-pot hitler for an officious authority figure but that hardly reflects his crimes. The expression modern day hitler does get some interesting results but I don't really see it worthy of inclusion, but perhaps others will, or be bold and add it and see how it goes, regards. Off2riorob (talk) 21:08, 26 November 2010 (UTC)

There are two different issues of usage here, I think:

(a) Hitler and his regime are sometimes used as examples of the most extreme evil (not quite synonyms for the concept of evil).

(b) The term 'Hitler' is used to describe someone as authoritarian - e.g. http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/little_Hitler. Barnabypage (talk) 22:05, 26 November 2010 (UTC)

Referring back to another user-generated wiki is as bad as referring back to a blog. This isn't a legit source. Ekwos (talk) 06:41, 30 November 2010 (UTC)

It's an example in Talk, not a proposed source for the article. Barnabypage (talk) 11:35, 1 December 2010 (UTC)

Control

The article suggests he may have had borderline personality order, which "and would imply Hitler was in full control of himself and his actions." Surely there is a "not" or "not always" missing there? - assuming that the posthumous diagnosis of BPD is justified.Straw Cat (talk) 14:20, 28 November 2010 (UTC)

The whole section seemd very poor and uncited so I removed it with the edit summary of .. speculation, uncited and tagged as close paraphrasing since March - removing, feel free to cite and assert notability and replace - Off2riorob (talk) 14:48, 28 November 2010 (UTC)

Edit request from NichtKevin, 2 December 2010

{{edit semi-protected}} In subtopic: Legacy

change "Loosely translated it reads: 'For peace, freedom // and democracy // never again fascism // millions of dead remind [us] '" to "Loosely translated it reads: 'For peace, freedom // and democracy // never again fascism // millions of dead warning '"

This is a more literate translation of the inscription. NichtKevin (talk) 18:05, 2 December 2010 (UTC)

If it were a literal translation then it wouldn't be a loose translation — not to mention that Mahnen is better translated as to remind per this reference. Cheers. My76Strat 06:49, 3 December 2010 (UTC)

Request : Adolf Hitler (Thai version)

The thai version of this article exposes Adolf Hitler as a good person and only this face of this man. Maybe someone needs to edit the thai version of this article or update it to show all his personality. (124.120.192.83 (talk) 20:55, 9 December 2010 (UTC))