Mark Twain was a Language and literature good articles nominee, but did not meet the good article criteria at the time. There may be suggestions below for improving the article. Once these issues have been addressed, the article can be renominated. Editors may also seek a reassessment of the decision if they believe there was a mistake.
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Hello, as I recall Mark Twain once said a pretty detailed and pretty nice quote on India. I understand that maybe not everything is going to be an article but if anyone is famiilar wwith what he said on India, i think it belongs in this article, maybe in the section of his views then. Because the aritcle wasd pretty detailed. And was a pretty nice opinion. I think it should be in the article. 71.105.87.54 (talk) 17:26, 5 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Doesn't anyone know how to use commas anymore...
This sentence:
"On a voyage to New Orleans down the Mississippi, the steamboat pilot, Horace E. Bixby, inspired Twain to be a steamboat pilot."
should read something like this:
"On a voyage to New Orleans down the Mississippi, steamboat pilot Horace E. Bixby inspired Twain to be a steamboat pilot."
This seems to be a case in which someone has jumped on the bandwagon of putting the word "the" in front of a title, such as 'the economist John Doe disagrees', whereas historically (up until a few years ago) it would have been simply 'economist John Doe disagrees'. In this case inserting "the" is ridiculous, makes no grammatical sense, and makes the sentence cumbersome with its need for extra commas.
The religion section is a bit clumsy in its attempt to discuss the complexity of Twain's (no doubt evolving) religious ideals (or the lack thereof). It begins with a sentence stating that Twain was a Presbyterian and implying that this is his basic religious beliefs; that is, it acknowledges his critique of religion, but does so in a way that renders those critiques secondary to his Christian foundations. Likewise, further in the section it claims that "despite" his criticisms he raised money to build a church. I am sure this is true but the phrasing is odd in that it once again presupposes that his criticisms are of lesser concern than his money raising. This is particularly troubling as he raises this money in the 1860's, prior to his gaining fame and much prior to his increasing criticism of Christianity and religion in general. Thus, his building the church says little about his religious ideals later in life. Once again, I do not doubt the factual nature of these claims, but they as stated do come across as a POV attempt to cast Twain as a fundamentally Christian man. Instead, I think this would be better if it more clearly delineated a timeline of Twain's changing thoughts on religion, showing that there is evidence of some religious conviction by him early in his life, but that as he aged this lessened to the point where his writings suggest he alternated between some form of vague deism and outright atheism. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 67.191.217.208 (talk) 19:46, 28 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Clemens attended church on a regular basis in Hartford and his funeral was at Brick Presbyterian in New York City. He was primarily opposed to "organized religion" but certainly was not an atheist. In fact, I doubt an atheist could have viewed religion with as much humor as Twain did. It is certainly documented that he loved singing spirituals. Collect (talk) 20:59, 28 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Singing spirituals tells us more about his taste in music than religion.
The article itself needs to leave it at what he said and did and what events happened that could have affected him. </nowiki></opinion>His religious convictions were tested by the death of his wife and all but one of his children, old age, and turn-of-the-century Christian imperialism. He at least despised organized religion. Losing so many loved ones made it hard to believe in a benevolent and personal God. He never mentions an afterlife. <opinion/> --Javaweb (talk) 21:46, 28 January 2011 (UTC)Javaweb[reply]
The idea that atheists can't view religion with humor is patently absurd and demonstrably false. However, I can agree that I was going too far in specifically labeling him "atheist" and/or "deist" without documentation. Javaweb is correct that we need to limit our treatment of Twain to the facts of his life and writings. My main complaint, and I admit it didn't come across well in my original post, is that the overall rhetorical flow and organization of the Religion section (in particular, the few interjections noted above) comes across as a POV attempt to assert that despite his often radically anti-religious statements, Twain was really, fundamentally Christian. I believe the section could be better organized and phrased to better demonstrate the evolution and complexity of Twain's religious beliefs (or the lack thereof).
