Talk:China

2nd Largest Economy?

In the lede it states that China is the world's second largest economy by both nominal and PPP estimates, yet the list that is linked for nominal GDP has all 3 organizations ranking them 3rd. Is this just because the 2010 lists haven't come out yet? Starwrath (talk) 04:36, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

Exactly right. China passed Japan a few months ago, so official rankings, which are released anually, do not reflect this yet.--hkr Laozi speak 05:11, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

Military Budget

This article states like so many others that china is under reporting its defence budget. My question is where is the evidence that China is under reporting its defence budget. Where is that extra money coming from and where is that money going to? It surtenly didn't go into there hardware because according to China's own omission and foreign military analysts 70% of China's weapons inventory is obsolete. How can China hide theze huge sums year after year? Wouldn't that destabillise there entire economy? I have been hearing alot about this claims for year's now and i haven't see scant evidence. The only thing we have are claims by the Pentagon and the US congress that is repeated by there media. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 78.21.214.42 (talk) 01:16, 24 November 2010 (UTC)

the problem is they could easily be lieing. know one knows for sure but the most powerful nations in the world has inteligence saying there under reporting. the means teres claims there under reporting. dosnt say for sure if they are or arnt. 24.228.24.97 (talk) 03:06, 12 February 2011 (UTC)

Military Section

This section includes, "Some think-tanks such as the Asian European Council have argued that the current tensions between the US and China over Washington's abrupt decision to sell arms to Taipei...." I consider the use of the word "abrupt" to violate the neutrality standard. It is a biased and pro-Chinese/anti-US. Hyphenation of think-tank is incorrect. It should be think tank. Commas should be added also, as the current puntuation is wrong. For these reasons the above should read: "Some think tanks, such as the Asian European Council, have argued that the current tensions between the US and China over Washington's decision to sell arms to Taipei..." —Preceding unsigned comment added by 72.14.122.241 (talk) 19:11, 27 November 2010 (UTC)

The use of 'abrupt' is not only biased but factually inaccurate - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taiwan_Relations_Act. America has supported Taiwan's military since 1979, and is indeed obliged by its own laws to do so. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 217.137.123.106 (talk) 15:24, 31 January 2011 (UTC)

"China" redirect

Why China doesn't redirect to here? Isn't that biased? In other wikipedia languages the term China redirects to PRC. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 189.69.110.164 (talk) 13:52, 7 December 2010 (UTC)

Dear Mr. Unhappy in SAO PAULO. Just get the PRC to announce that Taiwan is not part of China and we'll fix that right up for you. Hcobb (talk) 21:51, 7 December 2010 (UTC)

That wouldn't actually help seeing as the ROC nominally claims China. --Cybercobra (talk) 03:41, 8 December 2010 (UTC)

That wouldn't make sense since Republic of China (Taiwan) claims all of mainland China (PRC + Outer Mongolia) as ROC national territory.Phead128 (talk) 20:36, 28 January 2011 (UTC)

The current situation is that we have two governments who each claim to the legitimate government of all China and that they'll merge at some point in the unknown future. The opposition in Taiwan has called for a split, but they don't set policy. Hcobb (talk) 22:33, 8 December 2010 (UTC)

Yes, China is the PRC, and China is not ROC, for all intents and purposes. However, the main 'China' article talks about China as a continuous civilization, a nation-state, or a cultural unit or identity... so I like the way it is now. It is fine.Phead128 (talk) 20:51, 28 January 2011 (UTC)

Education in China

Can someone add this to the education section:

In the 2009 test of the Programme for International Student Assessment(PISA), which is a worldwide evaluation of 15-year-old school pupils' scholastic performance, Chinese students from Shanghai have achieved the best results in mathematics, science and reading. The OECD also looked at some rural areas of China, and found they matched Shanghai’s quality and that even in some of the very poor areas the performance is close to the OECD average.

I think the above info would be better than the list of universities in China in that section. Thinklde (talk) 06:38, 8 December 2010 (UTC)

Added to the article. -- Eraserhead1 <talk> 22:32, 8 December 2010 (UTC)

Wikileaks content on The Telegraph

The wikileaks content is all very relevant to the PRC article, editor please explain why it is being removed. Arilang ^talk 22:57, 9 December 2010 (UTC)

I support its inclusion on Wikipedia, but not here. relevance does not mean importance. enough said --HXL's Roundtable, and Record 23:02, 9 December 2010 (UTC)

Because some government business interests is not worth of a level 1 heading in this article. Somewhere else, sure, but not here. The Guardian (who have had a lot of Wikileaks access) doesn't even think its a big enough deal for it to appear in their China coverage at all. -- Eraserhead1 <talk> 23:14, 9 December 2010 (UTC)

Top Chinese leaders from Politburo of the Communist Party of China and Politburo Standing Committee of the Communist Party of China operate in "black box" style when outsiders are always kept in the dark; thanks to wikileaks, we are now able to have a peek at the real things. These are all important and explosive stuff for everyday readers, at last there is a choice between the official rose color tinted version and the "real" version. Arilang ^talk 23:18, 9 December 2010 (UTC)

The USA article doesn't even mention Wikileaks at all and the whole scandal is about them. I don't think a l1 header could be due weight here for this. -- Eraserhead1 <talk> 23:25, 9 December 2010 (UTC)

agreed. with regards to history and politics, articles on nations, and especially their introductions, should limit content to the most important events in history as well as a basic outlining of the economic and political structure of the said nation. Sub-articles exist for a reason... --HXL's Roundtable, and Record 23:42, 9 December 2010 (UTC)

Peeking inside the black box? Reality check: what most of the cables are, and what you have tried to put into this article, is mere speculation and opinion by U.S. embassy staff. Wikileaks did not leak China's documents. Quigley (talk) 00:09, 10 December 2010 (UTC)

Not this again. Inclusion in this article is unnecessary, and so far the arguments for inclusion have been borderline WP:SOAPBOX. Come on now. -- 李博杰  | —Talk contribs email 00:52, 10 December 2010 (UTC)

Li Keqiang, head of the Communist Party in northeastern Liaoning province at the time, was unusually candid in his assessment of local economic data at a dinner with then-U.S. Ambassador to China Clark Randt, according to a confidential memo sent after the meeting and published on the WikiLeaks website...“By looking at these three figures, Li said he can measure with relative accuracy the speed of economic growth. All other figures, especially GDP statistics, are 'for reference only,' he said smiling,” the cable added.

[1]

Now, Li Keqiang, who is expected to take up Wen Jiabao's job, his opinion at least worth something? Arilang ^talk 01:03, 10 December 2010 (UTC)

You are overly dramatising again. Tell me when politicians' private chats have ever been included in nation articles. --HXL's Roundtable, and Record 01:10, 10 December 2010 (UTC)

Most of the material is not warranted for inclusion, but ruling out the Wikileaks material altogether may be violating the principle of neutrality--Novus Orator 04:47, 20 December 2010 (UTC)

Not when the USA article doesn't include it at all. -- Eraserhead1 <talk> 19:06, 13 January 2011 (UTC)

Edit request from 69.29.73.195, 11 January 2011

{{edit semi-protected}} In the line discussing normalization of relations with Japan and soft loans, there is a grammatical error along the lines of "Japan have been #1..."

69.29.73.195 (talk) 22:26, 11 January 2011 (UTC)

 Done. Thanks much, and hope you catch more errors and report them. -- HXL's Roundtable, and Record 23:05, 11 January 2011 (UTC)

Territory

Should there be corrections made on China's territorial size ? Since Tadjikistan gave up something like a 1000km² to China to settle a centuries old border dispute. http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2011/01/12/AR2011011200961.html —Preceding unsigned comment added by 78.21.214.42 (talk) 17:25, 13 January 2011 (UTC)

Thanks for noticing this big news. In a few hours, I may well get to it. --HXL's Roundtable, and Record 17:28, 13 January 2011 (UTC)

here is some additional information:http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-pacific-12180567 —Preceding unsigned comment added by 78.21.214.42 (talk) 18:20, 13 January 2011 (UTC)

I think Bloomberg is trolling everyone...

• Jan 14, 2011, China Overtakes U.S. as Biggest Economy When Measured by Purchasing Power, Bloomberg

I for one am quite reluctant to buy this, but that's just me. The claim by the person responsible seems too impressive to be true in my opinion. -- 李博杰  | —Talk contribs email 14:11, 14 January 2011 (UTC)

Error in infobox, Wikipedia is not a propaganda machine

The infobox says the country is a one party republic. This is wrong information. Some may call it a one party dictatorship. We can be nice and sugar coat it to "one party state". That I favor.

It is not like Chicago, which is a defacto one party democracy. So worse than Chicago. Donotkill (talk) 20:00, 19 January 2011 (UTC)

I agree, we had a ludicrously long discussion about this before (here http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:People%27s_Republic_of_China/Archive_9#Form_of_gov.27t_listed_in_info_box ), and the compromise "consensus" was to place the following in the infobox:

• People's Republic (giving the Chinese view the pride of place)
• Communist state (which was already agreed upon by consensus above and is included in our lede)

No one loved this compromise, but people rarely do.LedRush (talk) 20:10, 19 January 2011 (UTC)

Nope - the country is republic in its structure, and the type of the republic is single party one. This is very neutral, and very factual statement. --Novis-M (talk) 20:11, 19 January 2011 (UTC)

It is also important to keep the same system and categorization - all the countries' infoboxes here on wikipedia list countries as republics or monarchies, plus the type - single party, parliamentary, constitutional, etc. So if we called China something else than single party republic, anyone could say United States is "capitalist union" (instead of factual "Federal presidential constitutional republic") or something like that - which is nonsense. --Novis-M (talk) 20:19, 19 January 2011 (UTC)

Novis, being the primary opponent to the changes I referenced above, do you recall those discussions? What changed from then to now to allow for the infobox to read as it now does?LedRush (talk) 20:21, 19 January 2011 (UTC)

I am a strong proponent of what the infobox currently says. And the discussion that led to "single-party led republic" are featured very prominently at the top, under the section "GOV type". I was a participant in that discussion, too. --HXL's Roundtable, and Record 20:24, 19 January 2011 (UTC)

Whoops...guess I missed that one. Thanks for pointing it out to me.LedRush (talk) 20:47, 19 January 2011 (UTC)

This is political correctness gone wild. North Korea is also called a republic. If so, almost every country is a republic!

Yes, 99% of all countries are either republics or monarchies. --Novis-M (talk) 11:46, 23 January 2011 (UTC)

If we don't want to offend countries, just leave this subject off the infobox. It is better than lying. My vote cannot overcome 1B potential WP editors so you win, I retreat. Donotkill (talk) 21:09, 19 January 2011 (UTC)

Well, one billion editors haven't weighed in on this. While I am surprised that past consensus to include both the official form of gov't and the actual one was so quickly overturned, it should not surprise you that it can be overturned again.LedRush (talk) 21:47, 19 January 2011 (UTC)

Before it was a "People's republic" which also contained republic, if you want to call it a "Communist dictatorship" or something that isn't actually true, as the leadership changes. -- Eraserhead1 <talk> 08:20, 20 January 2011 (UTC)

Well, leadership does change in dictatorships, so not sure what your point there was. However, the old compromise, before the one at the top of the page, was:

• People's Republic (giving the Chinese view the pride of place)
• Communist state (which was already agreed upon by consensus above and is included in our lede)

Whis was supposed to reflect the self-image of the leadership as well as the accepted reality.LedRush (talk) 15:14, 20 January 2011 (UTC)

At least if we say "People's Republic", many readers will understand that anything described as "People's" is usually a euphemism.—Greg Pandatshang (talk) 22:24, 22 January 2011 (UTC)

As I mentioned above, there is no "people's republic" form of government. People's/Socialist republic or Communist state - this is all nonsense. The latest consensus was "Single party-led republic. And I'm glad we finally worked all the way to correctness. --Novis-M (talk) 11:46, 23 January 2011 (UTC)

Well, that consensus was reached in a very small window, and consensus can change. The current description is definitely not ideal.LedRush (talk) 22:12, 28 January 2011 (UTC)

I for one seem to distinctly remember 2 sources being cited in whatever the prior version was, whereas the current version only cites 1. --Cybercobra (talk) 09:49, 29 January 2011 (UTC)

Actually, the form of government in the infobox is different from the source. On Britannica, it's a "single-party people’s republic with one legislative house" and on Wikipedia it's a "single party led republic", that's not totally different but not the same either. A republic is different from a people's republic. Laurent (talk) 16:00, 29 January 2011 (UTC)

Precisely. I recall the article previously cited the US State Dept or CIA World Factbook, one of which specifically used the "single party-led" phraseology. --Cybercobra (talk) 21:23, 29 January 2011 (UTC)

I've reverted the change as the consensus isn't clear, and the new text is messy, I've added the state department as a source as "single party led republic" and "communist party led state" are very similar when you are talking about China. While the CIA world factbook does call it a communist state, we shouldn't just be taking what the US government thinks the government type in China is, as that is essentially just US government propaganda - and not necessarily what more neutral observers consider to be correct. -- Eraserhead1 <talk> 19:16, 31 January 2011 (UTC)

Well, now the infobox has two citations, neither of which supports the information in the infobox.LedRush (talk) 19:16, 31 January 2011 (UTC)

Communist state is a widely used term for China. We can debate it's accuracy, but we can't debate that it is widely used in RSs. The language I added was the result of a long discussion and represented an uneasy compromise. The current language was introduced after barely any time at all and was pioneered by the one person who forced a very wide group of people to move off of their collective position. Now we have language that is uncited and the result of a quick switcharoo by someone discontented with the long and reasonable discussion here. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:People%27s_Republic_of_China/Archive_9#Form_of_gov.27t_listed_in_info_box. LedRush (talk) 19:27, 31 January 2011 (UTC)

That it doesn't match completely is true, I've added the Rough Guide as a further (hopefully neutral) source and I've also been WP:BOLD and changed it from single party-led republic to single party-led state, which fits all three sources. -- Eraserhead1 <talk> 19:34, 31 January 2011 (UTC)

Well, that language is better. And it has the benefit of being verifiable.LedRush (talk) 19:41, 31 January 2011 (UTC)

communist state has to be best description. more accurate such as "single party state" or equvalent would be "too biased" so communist state has to be best. 24.228.24.97 (talk) 03:10, 12 February 2011 (UTC)

No longer encouraged to return to China

I think this quote from last sentence of "Demographics" should be deleted: "The government, which imposes tight controls on immigration, no longer encourages ethnic Chinese to "return" to China.[185]"

I have read the source, and it specifically refers to the Chinese ethnic group in Indonesia, and it doesn't talk about Chinese from anywhere else. Thus, we can't use this to generalize all overseas Chinese. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 129.186.86.116 (talk) 06:12, 30 January 2011 (UTC)

6 trillion $ economy

The gdp data coming out on 20 january 2011 with a growth rate of 10.3% puts the Chinese economy at about 39.8 trillion cny with an exchange rate to usd of 1 usd is 6.59 cny this puts the Chinese economy at 6 trillion $.

http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?p=71184815 —Preceding unsigned comment added by 78.21.214.42 (talk) 12:49, 3 February 2011 (UTC)

http://defenceforumindia.com/showthread.php?t=18324&page=1

http://forums.hardwarezone.com.sg/showthread.php?t=3070524

http://nextbigfuture.com/2011/01/china-ends-2010-with-gdp-of-us598.html —Preceding unsigned comment added by 78.21.214.42 (talk) 12:56, 3 February 2011 (UTC)

2nd Largest Economy?

In the lede it states that China is the world's second largest economy by both nominal and PPP estimates, yet the list that is linked for nominal GDP has all 3 organizations ranking them 3rd. Is this just because the 2010 lists haven't come out yet? Starwrath (talk) 04:36, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

Exactly right. China passed Japan a few months ago, so official rankings, which are released anually, do not reflect this yet.--hkr Laozi speak 05:11, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

Military Budget

This article states like so many others that china is under reporting its defence budget. My question is where is the evidence that China is under reporting its defence budget. Where is that extra money coming from and where is that money going to? It surtenly didn't go into there hardware because according to China's own omission and foreign military analysts 70% of China's weapons inventory is obsolete. How can China hide theze huge sums year after year? Wouldn't that destabillise there entire economy? I have been hearing alot about this claims for year's now and i haven't see scant evidence. The only thing we have are claims by the Pentagon and the US congress that is repeated by there media. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 78.21.214.42 (talk) 01:16, 24 November 2010 (UTC)

the problem is they could easily be lieing. know one knows for sure but the most powerful nations in the world has inteligence saying there under reporting. the means teres claims there under reporting. dosnt say for sure if they are or arnt. 24.228.24.97 (talk) 03:06, 12 February 2011 (UTC)

Military Section

This section includes, "Some think-tanks such as the Asian European Council have argued that the current tensions between the US and China over Washington's abrupt decision to sell arms to Taipei...." I consider the use of the word "abrupt" to violate the neutrality standard. It is a biased and pro-Chinese/anti-US. Hyphenation of think-tank is incorrect. It should be think tank. Commas should be added also, as the current puntuation is wrong. For these reasons the above should read: "Some think tanks, such as the Asian European Council, have argued that the current tensions between the US and China over Washington's decision to sell arms to Taipei..." —Preceding unsigned comment added by 72.14.122.241 (talk) 19:11, 27 November 2010 (UTC)

The use of 'abrupt' is not only biased but factually inaccurate - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taiwan_Relations_Act. America has supported Taiwan's military since 1979, and is indeed obliged by its own laws to do so. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 217.137.123.106 (talk) 15:24, 31 January 2011 (UTC)

"China" redirect

Why China doesn't redirect to here? Isn't that biased? In other wikipedia languages the term China redirects to PRC. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 189.69.110.164 (talk) 13:52, 7 December 2010 (UTC)

Dear Mr. Unhappy in SAO PAULO. Just get the PRC to announce that Taiwan is not part of China and we'll fix that right up for you. Hcobb (talk) 21:51, 7 December 2010 (UTC)

That wouldn't actually help seeing as the ROC nominally claims China. --Cybercobra (talk) 03:41, 8 December 2010 (UTC)

That wouldn't make sense since Republic of China (Taiwan) claims all of mainland China (PRC + Outer Mongolia) as ROC national territory.Phead128 (talk) 20:36, 28 January 2011 (UTC)

The current situation is that we have two governments who each claim to the legitimate government of all China and that they'll merge at some point in the unknown future. The opposition in Taiwan has called for a split, but they don't set policy. Hcobb (talk) 22:33, 8 December 2010 (UTC)

Yes, China is the PRC, and China is not ROC, for all intents and purposes. However, the main 'China' article talks about China as a continuous civilization, a nation-state, or a cultural unit or identity... so I like the way it is now. It is fine.Phead128 (talk) 20:51, 28 January 2011 (UTC)

Education in China

Can someone add this to the education section:

In the 2009 test of the Programme for International Student Assessment(PISA), which is a worldwide evaluation of 15-year-old school pupils' scholastic performance, Chinese students from Shanghai have achieved the best results in mathematics, science and reading. The OECD also looked at some rural areas of China, and found they matched Shanghai’s quality and that even in some of the very poor areas the performance is close to the OECD average.

I think the above info would be better than the list of universities in China in that section. Thinklde (talk) 06:38, 8 December 2010 (UTC)

Added to the article. -- Eraserhead1 <talk> 22:32, 8 December 2010 (UTC)

Wikileaks content on The Telegraph

The wikileaks content is all very relevant to the PRC article, editor please explain why it is being removed. Arilang ^talk 22:57, 9 December 2010 (UTC)

I support its inclusion on Wikipedia, but not here. relevance does not mean importance. enough said --HXL's Roundtable, and Record 23:02, 9 December 2010 (UTC)

Because some government business interests is not worth of a level 1 heading in this article. Somewhere else, sure, but not here. The Guardian (who have had a lot of Wikileaks access) doesn't even think its a big enough deal for it to appear in their China coverage at all. -- Eraserhead1 <talk> 23:14, 9 December 2010 (UTC)

Top Chinese leaders from Politburo of the Communist Party of China and Politburo Standing Committee of the Communist Party of China operate in "black box" style when outsiders are always kept in the dark; thanks to wikileaks, we are now able to have a peek at the real things. These are all important and explosive stuff for everyday readers, at last there is a choice between the official rose color tinted version and the "real" version. Arilang ^talk 23:18, 9 December 2010 (UTC)

The USA article doesn't even mention Wikileaks at all and the whole scandal is about them. I don't think a l1 header could be due weight here for this. -- Eraserhead1 <talk> 23:25, 9 December 2010 (UTC)

agreed. with regards to history and politics, articles on nations, and especially their introductions, should limit content to the most important events in history as well as a basic outlining of the economic and political structure of the said nation. Sub-articles exist for a reason... --HXL's Roundtable, and Record 23:42, 9 December 2010 (UTC)

Peeking inside the black box? Reality check: what most of the cables are, and what you have tried to put into this article, is mere speculation and opinion by U.S. embassy staff. Wikileaks did not leak China's documents. Quigley (talk) 00:09, 10 December 2010 (UTC)

Not this again. Inclusion in this article is unnecessary, and so far the arguments for inclusion have been borderline WP:SOAPBOX. Come on now. -- 李博杰  | —Talk contribs email 00:52, 10 December 2010 (UTC)

Li Keqiang, head of the Communist Party in northeastern Liaoning province at the time, was unusually candid in his assessment of local economic data at a dinner with then-U.S. Ambassador to China Clark Randt, according to a confidential memo sent after the meeting and published on the WikiLeaks website...“By looking at these three figures, Li said he can measure with relative accuracy the speed of economic growth. All other figures, especially GDP statistics, are 'for reference only,' he said smiling,” the cable added.

[2]

Now, Li Keqiang, who is expected to take up Wen Jiabao's job, his opinion at least worth something? Arilang ^talk 01:03, 10 December 2010 (UTC)

You are overly dramatising again. Tell me when politicians' private chats have ever been included in nation articles. --HXL's Roundtable, and Record 01:10, 10 December 2010 (UTC)

Most of the material is not warranted for inclusion, but ruling out the Wikileaks material altogether may be violating the principle of neutrality--Novus Orator 04:47, 20 December 2010 (UTC)

Not when the USA article doesn't include it at all. -- Eraserhead1 <talk> 19:06, 13 January 2011 (UTC)

Edit request from 69.29.73.195, 11 January 2011

{{edit semi-protected}} In the line discussing normalization of relations with Japan and soft loans, there is a grammatical error along the lines of "Japan have been #1..."

69.29.73.195 (talk) 22:26, 11 January 2011 (UTC)

 Done. Thanks much, and hope you catch more errors and report them. -- HXL's Roundtable, and Record 23:05, 11 January 2011 (UTC)

Territory

Should there be corrections made on China's territorial size ? Since Tadjikistan gave up something like a 1000km² to China to settle a centuries old border dispute. http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2011/01/12/AR2011011200961.html —Preceding unsigned comment added by 78.21.214.42 (talk) 17:25, 13 January 2011 (UTC)

Thanks for noticing this big news. In a few hours, I may well get to it. --HXL's Roundtable, and Record 17:28, 13 January 2011 (UTC)

here is some additional information:http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-pacific-12180567 —Preceding unsigned comment added by 78.21.214.42 (talk) 18:20, 13 January 2011 (UTC)

I think Bloomberg is trolling everyone...

• Jan 14, 2011, China Overtakes U.S. as Biggest Economy When Measured by Purchasing Power, Bloomberg

I for one am quite reluctant to buy this, but that's just me. The claim by the person responsible seems too impressive to be true in my opinion. -- 李博杰  | —Talk contribs email 14:11, 14 January 2011 (UTC)

Error in infobox, Wikipedia is not a propaganda machine

The infobox says the country is a one party republic. This is wrong information. Some may call it a one party dictatorship. We can be nice and sugar coat it to "one party state". That I favor.

It is not like Chicago, which is a defacto one party democracy. So worse than Chicago. Donotkill (talk) 20:00, 19 January 2011 (UTC)

I agree, we had a ludicrously long discussion about this before (here http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:People%27s_Republic_of_China/Archive_9#Form_of_gov.27t_listed_in_info_box ), and the compromise "consensus" was to place the following in the infobox:

• People's Republic (giving the Chinese view the pride of place)
• Communist state (which was already agreed upon by consensus above and is included in our lede)

No one loved this compromise, but people rarely do.LedRush (talk) 20:10, 19 January 2011 (UTC)

Nope - the country is republic in its structure, and the type of the republic is single party one. This is very neutral, and very factual statement. --Novis-M (talk) 20:11, 19 January 2011 (UTC)

It is also important to keep the same system and categorization - all the countries' infoboxes here on wikipedia list countries as republics or monarchies, plus the type - single party, parliamentary, constitutional, etc. So if we called China something else than single party republic, anyone could say United States is "capitalist union" (instead of factual "Federal presidential constitutional republic") or something like that - which is nonsense. --Novis-M (talk) 20:19, 19 January 2011 (UTC)

Novis, being the primary opponent to the changes I referenced above, do you recall those discussions? What changed from then to now to allow for the infobox to read as it now does?LedRush (talk) 20:21, 19 January 2011 (UTC)

I am a strong proponent of what the infobox currently says. And the discussion that led to "single-party led republic" are featured very prominently at the top, under the section "GOV type". I was a participant in that discussion, too. --HXL's Roundtable, and Record 20:24, 19 January 2011 (UTC)

Whoops...guess I missed that one. Thanks for pointing it out to me.LedRush (talk) 20:47, 19 January 2011 (UTC)

This is political correctness gone wild. North Korea is also called a republic. If so, almost every country is a republic!

Yes, 99% of all countries are either republics or monarchies. --Novis-M (talk) 11:46, 23 January 2011 (UTC)

If we don't want to offend countries, just leave this subject off the infobox. It is better than lying. My vote cannot overcome 1B potential WP editors so you win, I retreat. Donotkill (talk) 21:09, 19 January 2011 (UTC)

Well, one billion editors haven't weighed in on this. While I am surprised that past consensus to include both the official form of gov't and the actual one was so quickly overturned, it should not surprise you that it can be overturned again.LedRush (talk) 21:47, 19 January 2011 (UTC)

Before it was a "People's republic" which also contained republic, if you want to call it a "Communist dictatorship" or something that isn't actually true, as the leadership changes. -- Eraserhead1 <talk> 08:20, 20 January 2011 (UTC)

Well, leadership does change in dictatorships, so not sure what your point there was. However, the old compromise, before the one at the top of the page, was:

• People's Republic (giving the Chinese view the pride of place)
• Communist state (which was already agreed upon by consensus above and is included in our lede)

Whis was supposed to reflect the self-image of the leadership as well as the accepted reality.LedRush (talk) 15:14, 20 January 2011 (UTC)

At least if we say "People's Republic", many readers will understand that anything described as "People's" is usually a euphemism.—Greg Pandatshang (talk) 22:24, 22 January 2011 (UTC)

As I mentioned above, there is no "people's republic" form of government. People's/Socialist republic or Communist state - this is all nonsense. The latest consensus was "Single party-led republic. And I'm glad we finally worked all the way to correctness. --Novis-M (talk) 11:46, 23 January 2011 (UTC)

Well, that consensus was reached in a very small window, and consensus can change. The current description is definitely not ideal.LedRush (talk) 22:12, 28 January 2011 (UTC)

I for one seem to distinctly remember 2 sources being cited in whatever the prior version was, whereas the current version only cites 1. --Cybercobra (talk) 09:49, 29 January 2011 (UTC)

Actually, the form of government in the infobox is different from the source. On Britannica, it's a "single-party people’s republic with one legislative house" and on Wikipedia it's a "single party led republic", that's not totally different but not the same either. A republic is different from a people's republic. Laurent (talk) 16:00, 29 January 2011 (UTC)

Precisely. I recall the article previously cited the US State Dept or CIA World Factbook, one of which specifically used the "single party-led" phraseology. --Cybercobra (talk) 21:23, 29 January 2011 (UTC)

I've reverted the change as the consensus isn't clear, and the new text is messy, I've added the state department as a source as "single party led republic" and "communist party led state" are very similar when you are talking about China. While the CIA world factbook does call it a communist state, we shouldn't just be taking what the US government thinks the government type in China is, as that is essentially just US government propaganda - and not necessarily what more neutral observers consider to be correct. -- Eraserhead1 <talk> 19:16, 31 January 2011 (UTC)

Well, now the infobox has two citations, neither of which supports the information in the infobox.LedRush (talk) 19:16, 31 January 2011 (UTC)

Communist state is a widely used term for China. We can debate it's accuracy, but we can't debate that it is widely used in RSs. The language I added was the result of a long discussion and represented an uneasy compromise. The current language was introduced after barely any time at all and was pioneered by the one person who forced a very wide group of people to move off of their collective position. Now we have language that is uncited and the result of a quick switcharoo by someone discontented with the long and reasonable discussion here. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:People%27s_Republic_of_China/Archive_9#Form_of_gov.27t_listed_in_info_box. LedRush (talk) 19:27, 31 January 2011 (UTC)

That it doesn't match completely is true, I've added the Rough Guide as a further (hopefully neutral) source and I've also been WP:BOLD and changed it from single party-led republic to single party-led state, which fits all three sources. -- Eraserhead1 <talk> 19:34, 31 January 2011 (UTC)

Well, that language is better. And it has the benefit of being verifiable.LedRush (talk) 19:41, 31 January 2011 (UTC)

communist state has to be best description. more accurate such as "single party state" or equvalent would be "too biased" so communist state has to be best. 24.228.24.97 (talk) 03:10, 12 February 2011 (UTC)

No longer encouraged to return to China

I think this quote from last sentence of "Demographics" should be deleted: "The government, which imposes tight controls on immigration, no longer encourages ethnic Chinese to "return" to China.[185]"

I have read the source, and it specifically refers to the Chinese ethnic group in Indonesia, and it doesn't talk about Chinese from anywhere else. Thus, we can't use this to generalize all overseas Chinese. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 129.186.86.116 (talk) 06:12, 30 January 2011 (UTC)

6 trillion $ economy

The gdp data coming out on 20 january 2011 with a growth rate of 10.3% puts the Chinese economy at about 39.8 trillion cny with an exchange rate to usd of 1 usd is 6.59 cny this puts the Chinese economy at 6 trillion $.

http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?p=71184815 —Preceding unsigned comment added by 78.21.214.42 (talk) 12:49, 3 February 2011 (UTC)

http://defenceforumindia.com/showthread.php?t=18324&page=1

http://forums.hardwarezone.com.sg/showthread.php?t=3070524

http://nextbigfuture.com/2011/01/china-ends-2010-with-gdp-of-us598.html —Preceding unsigned comment added by 78.21.214.42 (talk) 12:56, 3 February 2011 (UTC)