Talk:Eritrea

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• /Archive 1: ~ June 2006

"Any journalists who criticize the president or his regime are immediately put into prison"

While media censorship is undoubtedly strong in Eritrea, this is obvious hyperbole. Any ideas for a more neutral statement? 121.209.1.24 (talk) 13:46, 26 October 2008 (UTC)

Requests

Could someone explain to me why it seems that this page is trying to make it look like Eritrea is somehow More Muslim than Christian. There are many istances of this and i have tried to fix it due to the image being produced by the western media to make Eritrea somehow a Muslim State and further by the US to be state sponsor of Terrorism it is imparitive that this remain an equal media to represent the truth rather than a perception of what the reality is! —Preceding unsigned comment added by 129.128.239.40 (talk) 01:57, 11 December 2007 (UTC)

Could someone please do a writeup of the story of the design and the building of the Asmara-Massawa road? I believe an Italian woman was responsible for the work. thank you...

Hi guys. This article feels a little lopsided. There is some mention, but actually very little about human rights abuses and acts of state terrorism. Check Amnesty's Eritrea News page for some quick information http://www.amnestyusa.org/countries/eritrea/news.do

Compulsory national service for all men between 18 and 40 for an indefinite time ought to be mentioned, since their labour constitutes a major factor in the Eritrean economy now.

Also, an article about the Eritrean Diaspora feels necessary, again because that is where a lot of Eritrean's cashflow originates.

Secret prisons, detention of relatives to people who fled national service, imprisonment of church leaders, etc. I saw in the history of this article that external links to Non-Governmental groups was deleted. Any particular reason for that? I didn't check the links, but some grassroots backup would do this article some good. It's Wikipedia, supposed to be grassroots, innit. Thanks A—The preceding unsigned comment was added by Anansie (talk • contribs) 09:38, 11 March 2007 (UTC).

I agree that there should be an addition about the Eritrean Diaspora, however, this should be done not because of their economic significance, but because of their significant numbers in the population. As to the remainder of your inquiry, the Eritrea page is not specifically about the governance of Eritrea and that is where such an addition should be placed. If you will notice, much of what is on the Eritrea page is not about governance. Furthermore, when added it will have to be mentioned as "alleged" because technically it is all speculation at this point. --Merhawie 13:31, 11 March 2007 (UTC)

Good article nomination

This article was nominated as a good article by User:SeanMack. Whilst it is a substantial article, with many facts suitably referenced, it has a couple of problems at the moment. The status of English needs to be sorted out - it looks like that's going to be hard to reference, unfortunately. A photographic image of a place in Eritrea would be nice, does it have a "defining image" like the Palace of Westminster in the United Kingdom article, the Imperial Palace in the Japan article, or the fishing village in the Norway article? The rather nice photo that is here needs to have its licence sorted out - at the moment it seems to have a software licence, not a photographic one... On the whole though this is a pretty decent and obviously improving article, it will be nice to see it when it's got sorted out a bit more (some more "paper" references would be good, perhaps a few more images and an agreement about disputed issues) and hopefully it can be nominated for good article or even featured article status.TheGrappler 17:15, 17 April 2006 (UTC)

To address these concerns I thought it would be easiest if I went ahead and put these criticisms (constructive of course) into a list form:

1. The status of English needs to be sorted out
2. A photographic image of a place in Eritrea (a "defining image")
3. The rather nice photo that is here needs to have its licence sorted out
4. Some more "paper" references would be goodwill always need more

Ok everyone who is working on this article. We have a new list of tasks: Peer Review, thanks to the reviewers. I have provided them below in list form so we can work through them easier and strike them off when done.

1. Please provide WP:CITE information for references/footnotes. See also WP:CITE/ES; templates like {{Cite web}} and {{Cite book}} may be useful here.
2. I'm pretty confident that paper sources can be found for this article.
   • I am not quite sure about this one. Surely there are indeed paper sources, however, it does not seem that the ratio of paper to web articles for this entry is any different than any other FA, especially PRC.
3. For examples of featured articles that this article can follow as a guide, see WP:FA#Geography and places. (countries include Canada, Australia, India, PRC, etc.)

   

4. Generally, trivia sections are looked down upon; please either remove the trivia section or incorporate any important facts into the rest of the article.
5. This article may be a bit list-weighty; in other words, some of the lists should be converted to prose (paragraph form).
6. There are a few sections that are too short and that should be either expanded or merged. For example, Culture is/are a bit short.
7. Merge languages into Demographics
8. Per WP:CONTEXT and WP:MOSDATE, months and days of the week generally should not be linked (Don't link September or Tuesday unless there is really good reason to). Years, decades, and centuries can be linked if they provide context for the article.

I'm pretty sure that we can put in a defining image, I've come up with three;

File:Cathedral-asmara.jpg

Asmara Cathedral looks not dissimilar to the palace of westminster! And is an important building in Asmara, it also could be a defining image.

File:Asmara by night.jpg

Shows the hustle and bussle of Asmara in with the beauty of the cathedral in the background.

A better picture of the Shida Monument would also be great. --Segafreak2 10:55, 18 July 2006 (UTC)

I considered that at first, however, I realized that those are defining images of Asmara and not Eritrea. I concluded that the shida was probably a better defining image, though if you think there are others that would be great too, we can check it out! --Merhawie 14:50, 18 July 2006 (UTC)

If that is the case how is the Palace of Westminster a defining image of the UK and not London? --Segafreak2 19:11, 18 July 2006 (UTC)

I like those images, and they should be in the article. Merhawie I don't understand when you say that, "those are defining images of Asmara and not Eritrea." Stop pussy footing around and just add the pictures. When I came to look for images on Eritrea, why did I have to come to the discussion board to find those kind of beautiful pictures? Is there something you would like to say or not say? I don't get it. Just put them up. ----Nita July 18, 2006 2:35pm (CST) _______________________________________________________________________________________

Whats going on with the demographics section? Why are these people labeled as "Semetic" when that is only a language group? Also when was he migration from southern Arabia Massive? In fact it is known to me minor. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 67.82.192.138 (talk) 03:08, 21 January 2008 (UTC)

Religous Harmony

Yom has raised concern about the validity of the claim of religious harmony. Various sources that I am familiar with believe that there exists such harmony however, I am not sure of any 'study' as Yom desires. Closest thing I have come across is the following link http://www.erythros.org/eritrea_eng.asp .

That doesn't look much like a study. I'm well-aware of the claim of religious harmony in Eritrea, but never seen anything saying with any authority (aside from just repeating claims by the government) that it's actually more harmonious than other countries in the region. If you'd like, a reinsertion of its "reputation" as religiously harmonious (but no studies establishing this have been done yet), then that's fine with me, as I definitely agree with that.

Btw, can you answer my question about Hagere Ertra?

Yom 17:09, 22 May 2006 (UTC)

[edited out] Please go to Yom's talk page if you have personal questions for him.

Hey so I was wondering. I have been working pretty hard on this article for the past couple of days...and when I look at other similar articles there is not a religion section. Do you think we should have a religion section? Please weigh in everyone. Merhawie 20:57, 8 June 2006 (UTC) [edit] Never mind. Merhawie 04:47, 11 June 2006 (UTC)

yes i think there should be a religious section. i was just wondering if in biblical times, eritrea and ethiopia were one country. and if eritrea has always been a separate country because i am sure that it has been except that eritrea is always forgotten in certain articles and they claim that ethiopia is across the sea from Yemen when really it is eritrea. thank you. -Settit

Eritrea and Ethiopia did even not exist in Biblical times. Their borders did not exist and half of the people who live there now did not live there. Other people who used to live there, do not live there anymore, they are gone. A lot has happened and things changed. The use of the word 'Ethiopia' in the Bible as well as the word itself was created by foreigners (Greeks) to refer to an area which they didn't know very well other than that dark (black) people lived there and which they thought belonged to just one country. So yes when you see "Ethiopia" being mentioned in the Bible, it is usually just a European referring to some country, any country south of Egypt along the Red Sea on the other side of Yemen with black people in it (could have been where Eritrea is now, could also been Somalia or Sudan or Ethiopia). It does not refer to the Ethiopia which we know today (created as a Habesha Empire). The Habesha Kings took the name

"Ethiopia" from the Bible and applied it to themselves and their country during the age which they became christians because it gave them a place in the Bible:-) Some people of Eritrea and Ethiopia share a history and culture, not as 'Ethiopians', but as part of an ancient empire called Axum.

You're hard to understand, but no, Eritrea wasn't a separate country until 1890, meaning it was Ethiopian in Biblical times. — ዮም (Yom) | contribs • Talk • E 19:26, 1 July 2006 (UTC)

Ok let me dumb this down then. Eritrea was not part of Ethiopia in Biblical times because Ethiopia did not exist in Biblical times. The "Ethiopia" being mentioned in the Bible does not specifically or accurately refer to any historic kingdom or nation in the Horn of Africa region which has existed in perpetuity up to this day, there has been no such nation in the region. It is a Greek term which simply means land of burnt faces. In much of the old testament, Nubia was referred to as "Ethiopia" and that kingdom lay in present day Sudan not Ethiopia. The name "Ethiopia" PREDATES the country we know as Ethiopia today, the Bible itself predates Ethiopia as a country. There is no mention of the word "Ethiopia" in pre-christian Axum if that is what you are referring to as 'Ethiopia'. Axum was not an 'Ethiopian' Kingdom, this is about as stupid as claiming the Roman Empire was an Italian Empire...Christian Axumites and their Abyssinian successors may have adopted the name "Ethiopia" out of the Bible as a form of bestowing Biblical and historical prestige to their state, especially as it roughly corresponded with their location (South of Egypt, source of the Nile), but it certainly was not a specific reference to the Axumite Kingdom, no more than to Nubia. Later accounts of foreign (European) and Abyssinian sources that mention

"Ethiopia" are slightly more specific as they usually are talking about Abyssinian kingdoms, but they are nonetheless still inaccurate in that they mention it as if it were one kingdom when in fact we know it was a fragmented region with several rival kingdoms and dynasties within the 'realm'. Needless to say the continued use of the term among Abyssinian Kings, especially those that either desired or commanded dominance in the region, backed by the church, bore political as well as religious significance since it portrayed something which was not necessarily true (the unity of the region under the rule of that one pretendent King) and the churches legitimacy as the proponent of a nation of "Biblical significance". We know today that what was represented as "Ethiopia" or even a one united "Abyssinia" was not a constantly unified political state, at best it was a cultural realm which experienced brief periods of unity, much like "Scandinavia", "Swahili Coast", "Hindustan" or "Hispanoamerica". The longest recorded and confirmed period of existance for a cohesive state under the name of "Ethiopia" which successfully unified all the rival Abyssinian Kingdoms as well as other conqered regions, is the Ethiopia between 1952 and 1991 and those were some turbulent times no? Even today, "Ethiopia" is plagued by the forces of separatism of the considerable share of the population who don't consider themselves "Ethiopians" at all nor do they share this concept of a shared trimillenial history and destiny. --->You are still not proving Ethiopia and Eritrea were not one people. You have just explained how in your views the term Ethiopia is not necessarily referring to today's Ethiopia.--4.21.108.38 (talk) 14:00, 4 February 2009 (UTC)

hey buddy ethiopia didnt exist with the same name 150 years ago you took the name,you want proof?ill give you the best proof.go and visit the ancient city of ITOPIA in northern sudan then you will see what the greeks were talking about,kingdom of itopia with its capital city itopia was known at that time,you steal the name then you say we are the one the greek talking about lol thats very funny.

Good Status

For this article to become featured or indeed become a "Good Article", it needs to have a longer and more interesting lead. The Canada article has a lovely lead. See if it can be applied in some way to Eritrea. --Jaw101ie 21:40, 17 July 2006 (UTC)

Relations w/ neighbors

Specifically Yom does not think that this comment in NPOV:

"The peoples of Eritrea have a long and complex shared history with the people of the region, including those of the Sudan and Ethiopia."

If you could please explain your justification. I have a feeling it deals with these sentences from NPOV:

"As the name suggests, the neutral point of view is a point of view, not the absence or elimination of viewpoints. It is a point of view that is neutral - that is neither sympathetic nor in opposition to its subject."

But perhaps you could clarify. Merhawie 01:03, 18 July 2006 (UTC)

Yes, by including Sudan in there, you're making it seem as if they are on the same level, which they are not. See WP:NPOV#Undue weight, the relevant section. I think it's far better to simply show relations through facts, rather than give any area undue weight through wording in a single sentence. Note that 80% of Eritreans speak Semitic languages, the Kunama/Nara are also found in Ethiopia, the Saho are also found in Ethiopia (Irob), and the Afar are also found in Ethiopia. Connections with Sudan are more through the Beja, which are less, and the Rasha'ida are only 19th century immigrants (from the Arabian peninsula). I would rather that the intro not state relations at all in the opening sentence, but if we do, Eritrean-Ethiopian relations should be given the status they deserve, and Eritreo-Sudanese relations not given undue status (note that I'm talking about historical ties, not foreign relations). — ዮም | (Yom) | Talk • contribs • Ethiopia 01:14, 18 July 2006 (UTC)

Would the following being an adequate compromise?

"The peoples of Eritrea have a long and complex shared history with the people of the region."

I do however, think it is important to point at that this point requires further discussion as northern Eritrean was a part of Sudan when southern Eritrea was a part of Abyssinia and Aksum. Due to this I believe that they have equal weight in Eritrean history, though this may not be the case for the peoples. Furthermore you ignore the significant impact of the Beja people (Hedareb) on the culture and society of the Tigre people.

The Tigre moreso, true, but I still don't think Sudan and Ethiopia are comparable. Something like what you said is acceptable. How about "neighboring peoples," though, instead of "people of the region," as the latter sounds awkward. Note that northern Eritrea was part of Aksum, just not post-Aksumite Ethiopia like central & southern Eritrea (of course, it depends on what you define as north, but the northernmost province was generally Marya, north of Hamasien see [1], e.g). Either way, I agree on your compromise. — ዮም | (Yom) | Talk • contribs • Ethiopia 01:32, 18 July 2006 (UTC)

Good compromise reached. However, the other point in your response I was under the impression that those two regions were only under the temporary authority of Aksum [2]. Merhawie 01:43, 18 July 2006 (UTC)

Nah, that map's pretty good (e.g. wrt Yemen) but inaccurate. Aksum didn't extend that far south until the 6th or 7th century for one, and it certainly wasn't that far west. Gojjam wasn't part of Ethiopia until the Zagwe dynasty, and even then it was only partially so. It was under Amda Seyon I that Gojjam as we know it today (with the exception of some remote western areas, probably) was subject to the Emperor, and even then it was pagan for centuries afterwards. Outside of Eritrea and Tigray, it probably only controlled northern Wello and northern Gonder before the 7th century. The Aksumite cultural sphere (i.e. "heart") extended as far north as Rora in Eritrea, which is the farthest north that Aksumite culture has been found. However, even in early times, it spread pretty far north. The inscription of Sembrouthes, for instance, was found in Deqqemhare. Regarding the map again, the Beja were under the control of Aksum, as was Meroe and the Nobatae during Ezana's reign, so Wysinger's map, if purportedly Aksum's farthest extent, is inaccurate in that regard. Its control should basically extend up to the borders with Egypt, of course losly, however. The Nobatae (the greek name, in Ge'ez ኖባ, unvocalized ነበ noba) were also conquered by Ezana, which was the farthest north of Sudan. See also Makuria and Alodia for a map of the three later Christian Nubian states. Here's an excerpt of Ezana's conquests:

By the might of the Lord of All I made war upon Noba, for the peoples of Noba had rebelled and made a boast of it. The peoples had said "they [the Aksumites] will not cross the Tekezé." And they were in the habit of attacking the peoples of Mangurto and Khasa and Barya and the blacks and of making war upon the red peoples. And two or three times they had broken their solemn oaths and had killed their neighbors mercillessly, and they had stripped bare and stolen the properties of our envoys and messengers which I had sent to them to inquire into their thefts, and had stolen from them their weapons of defence. And as I have sent warnings to them, and they would not listen to me and refused to stop their [evil] deeds and heaped insults upon me and then took to flight, I made war upon them. And I rose up in the might of the Lord of the Land [Igzī'a'bihēr =Christian God], and I fought them on the Tekezé, at the ford of Kemalke. Thereupon they took to flight and would not make a stand. And I followed the fugitives for twenty-three days, killing and making prisoners and capturing booty wherever I stopped. My people who marched into the country brought back prisoners and booty. Meanwhile I burnt their towns, [both] those built of brick and those built of reeds, and [my soldiers] carried off their food, as well as copper, iron and brass; they destroyed the statues in their houses [i.e. temples], as well as their storehouses for food, and their cotton trees, casting them in the river Sida [=the Nile]. And there were many men who died in the water, their number being unknown to me. [The soldiers] sank their ships crowded with people, men and women, in the river. And I captured two chieftains, who had come as spies riding on female camels....And I captured an Angebenawi nobleman....The chieftains who died were five in number....

Then it goes on about the conquest of Kasu (i.e. Kush). Note that I don't think Tekezé refers to the modern river in this instance (even though I linked to it - Pankhurst thinks it does, but I could have sworn remembering a Tigrinya meaning like "stream"), but I do think it's a derivative from a Tigrinya word that could be used for a number of rivers (stream? rapids?). I could be wrong, but I can't find the source where I got it from. Do you think you could help clarify? — ዮም | (Yom) | Talk • contribs • Ethiopia 03:28, 18 July 2006 (UTC)

Cluckbang changed the text to say "of Ethiopia." I was going to revert it completely, but would you be willing to accept the addition at the end "especially with those of Ethiopia," recognizing the connection with Ethiopia, but maintaining the connection with peoples of Sudan and Djibouti as well? I think it's still NPOV so long as it recognizes that the others exist. — ዮም | (Yom) | Talk • contribs • Ethiopia 20:52, 18 July 2006 (UTC)

I believe we agreed to not mention any country. If we were to recognize that of other countries then we should mention all of the substantial ones. --Merhawie 22:22, 18 July 2006 (UTC)

Weasel words

Yom, could you take a look at this and fix (i.e. reference or clarify), these are weaseled phrases:

Although it has been contended today, Eritrean and Ethiopian civilization is thought to have been be founded by Semitic-speaking Sabaeans who crossed the Red Sea from South Arabia (modern Yemen), on the basis of close ties in the past, closely related languages and people.

->Pre-colonial history

I fixed it. I didn't see the changes until yesterday and missed the request, sorry. On a different note, I noticed you nominated Eritrea to be an FA. Are you certain about this? It seems to me as if it could use a lot more sourcing an rewriting before it gets to that level, but it certainly seems GA level to me. Also, you noted that it had 2 peer reviews. Could you direct me to them so I can read them? — ዮም | (Yom) | Talk • contribs • Ethiopia 01:47, 4 August 2006 (UTC)

The peer review's can be found here. There are changes that need to be made for this page to become an FA, if you want you can read through the recommendations and I am trying to find more help on it. Merhawie 20:55, 12 August 2006 (UTC)

History

I believe that the pre-colonial history goes into far too much depth about D'mt and that instead it should be more brief because if someone wants information on it they should just go to the page about that subject. Merhawie 20:55, 12 August 2006 (UTC)

Why did you take out the intro?

Merhawie, why did you take out the intro. It was so good. Im putting it back. The one before it (that you replaced right now) is too vague and makes the country look boring. Look at the Ethiopian article. Look at other countries articles? Cluckbang 15:59, 14 August 2006 (UTC)Cluckbang

I reverted it for two reasons:

1. It seems to be more about Eritrea's relationship with Ethiopia (instead for instance with Aksum),
2. It is far too in depth about the historical aspect, the historical context is too specific.

Basically it seems to me that it belongs in the historical section and not the lead section. I draw this conclusion from the recommendations of Wikipedia, specifically about the lead section and I would also recommend you read through the section for an actual Featured Article (the one that I have been following are People's Republic of China and Libya). If you agree, or do not respond by the end of the day, I will revert your change to the lead section. Merhawie 18:10, 14 August 2006 (UTC)

Libya and china? Those are just 2 countries! In most articles, there is a little history info on the intro. Even if you look at the Ethiopia article. Besides what I added to the intro made the country more interesting to the reader and will cause them to want to know more about such an interesting country. I am reverting

As you can see I did discuss it and you failed to respond. Also the reason I chose PRC and Libya as opposed to the Ethiopia article is because those have qualified for "Featured Article" status very much unlike the Ethiopia article. Read through the "editing" help section and let me know if you think it still is appropriate, because as far as I can tell for the recommendations for lead sections via peer review and those recommendations the original is more appropriate. I expect a response in 24 hours, or will assume your silence means that you yield, thank you for your interest. Merhawie 21:44, 16 August 2006 (UTC)

Do you think people are interested to learn about a former colony in the intro? Give me a break. I am reverting.

Cluckbang 15:32, 16 August 2006 (UTC)Cluckbang

As this page is about the country Eritrea, which was founded originally as a colony of Italy, not only would they be interested, but it is a critically important date. Your 'contribution' is at best specious and at worst irrelevant, it does not belong in the lead section, if it belonged anywhere it would be in the history section, but it may even be more appropriate in the History of Eritrea page. Furthermore, I would change your tone, it is not helpful. Merhawie 14:47, 22 August 2006 (UTC)

Excuse me, change my tone? Whats that supposed to mean, are you the administrator of this article? No. I told you, but you wont listen!!!

Here on Wikipedia we rule by consensus. I ask you to change your tone because it is not conducive to agreement, if anything it is counterproductive, and of course it is a violation of policy here on Wikipedia. Regardless of your tone however, we should however, come to an agreement on the lead before any further changes are made. Merhawie 18:21, 22 August 2006 (UTC)

Lead section dispute

What has done here is show you part of the argument. The following is the section That I recommend for the lead:

Eritrea is a country in northern East Africa. The name is derived from the Latin word for Red Sea, Mare Erythraeum. The country is bordered by Sudan in the west, Ethiopia in the south and Djibouti in the southeast. The east and northeast of the country have an extensive coastline with the Red Sea across which lie Saudi Arabia and Yemen. The Dahlak Archipelago and several of the Hanish Islands are part of Eritrea. Eritrea was consolidated into a colony by the Italian government on January 1, 1890. Eritrea gained its independence from Ethiopia after a thirty-year war which lasted from 1961 to 1991.

Eritrea is officially a parliamentary democracy consisting of six regions, but functions as a single-party state. Eritrea is a multilingual and multicultural country with two dominant religions and nine nationalities, each speaking a different language. The country has no official language, but it has three working languages: Tigrinya, Arabic, and English. A fourth language, Italian, is sometimes used commercially.

Now the following is what another user has argued would be better:

Eritrea is a country in northern East Africa. The name is derived from the Latin word for Red Sea, Mare Erythraeum. The country is bordered by Sudan in the west, Ethiopia in the south and Djibouti in the southeast. The east and northeast of the country have an extensive coastline with the Red Sea across which lie Saudi Arabia and Yemen. The Dahlak Archipelago and several of the Hanish Islands are part of Eritrea. It has long been an intersection between the civilizations of North Africa, the Middle East and Sub-Saharan Africa due to its nearness to the Red Sea. The area now called Eritrea has played an important role in the the region we now know as Ethiopia. As an enclave on the coast of the Red Sea coast, a major trade route since ancient times, Eritrea has long been a strategic location for much of the region, a hub for exports of gold, ivory, civet musk and slaves, and imports of textiles and other manufactured goods. The coastal area was visited shortly before the Christian era by Ptolemaic naval expeditions, which came in quest of elephants, known as "the tanks of the ancient world".

Eritrea was consolidated into a colony by the Italian government on January 1, 1890. Contemporary Eritrea gained its independence from Ethiopia after a thirty-year war which lasted from 1961 to 1991. Eritrea is officially a parliamentary democracy consisting of six regions, but functions as a single-party state. Eritrea is a multilingual and multicultural country with two dominant religions and nine nationalities, each speaking a different language. The country has no official language, but it has three working languages: Tigrinya, Arabic, and English. A fourth language, Italian, is sometimes used commercially.

Now I am of the opinion that his alteration (which I have italicized) does not belong in the lead section. If any part of it did it would only be the first sentence, but I believe the contribution is too specific historically speaking, its talks about the effect Eritrea on Ethiopia even before Eritrea existed as a country, and if anything only belongs in the history section of the page. Your input would be greatly appreciated. 00:20, 24 August 2006 (UTC)

The italicized section IS historical, in my opinion, and does not bear sufficiently on the PRESENT situation and realities of Eritrea to merit a place in the lead paragraph. If Eritrea today is a significant locus of transshipment for Ethiopia, more-so than for other areas, that might qualify for inclusion, but not "pre-Christian-era" circumstances.--Joe 20:01, 28 August 2006 (UTC)

I agree with Joe. If the lead paragraph was filled with numerous historical facts outside the realm of present day Eritrea, the result would be a bloated and unfocused summary. The reader would navigate through potentially irrelevant data. While including data that is true and relevant to the historical aspect of Eritrea is wonderful, this could waste the reader's time. Jloo 19:57, 30 August 2006 (UTC)

I disagree with User:Cluckbang. Eritrea during the Axum time, which you are referring to, was not known as Eritrea.You are delving too much into detail that we are not sure of.Asmarina

You all say that Eritrea has no official language, but the quoted source says that "Arabic, English, and Tigrinya are the three official languages in Eritrea".Ehudzel 16:21, 7 July 2007 (UTC)

Indeed the source does show that, however, there is no official language in Eritrea. Should the source be removed? --Merhawie 22:33, 7 July 2007 (UTC)

Motto

Is anyone able to provide a reference for the motto Never kneel down? Though I've seen it mentioned in several places, I couldn't find an official source. Pruneau^talk 23:58, 2 September 2006 (UTC)

I am not sure if there is indeed and official motto. During the revolution the motto of the EPLF was "Victory to the Masses" but also commonly said was "Never kneel down!" Merhawie 17:07, 3 September 2006 (UTC)

Actually I found a couple of sources for "Never kneel down" Merhawie 18:49, 3 September 2006 (UTC)

On the coins, there is the motto Liberty, Equality, Justice. ([3]) That seems more official to me than the references we found so far. Pruneau^talk 20:34, 15 October 2006 (UTC)

It seems possible but to be honest, I have never really heard that one used, while in written sources you read "Never Kneel Down" constantly. Furthermore I wouldn't say that there is a de jure National motto, instead "Never Kneel Down" is a sort of de facto National motto. --Merhawie 21:32, 15 October 2006 (UTC)

It hardly seems reasonable to say that Never kneel down is used constantly, given that we had trouble finding a reference, let alone anything remotely official. I'm starting to think that we shouldn't list a motto at all for Eritrea. Pruneau^talk 09:54, 16 October 2006 (UTC)

That would seem reasonable because I am pretty sure that in all the reading about Eritrea that I have done Never Kneel Down was the motto of the EPLF, which is not necessarily the Government of Eritrea. --Merhawie 13:46, 16 October 2006 (UTC)

During my time in Eritrea, I saw 'Never Kneel Down' mainly used in graffiti. 'Awet Nahefash' (Victory To The Masses) is used commonly in all official documentation, even at the end of school reports, preferably postpended by one or more exclamation marks.

Images

I think that we have too many images in the History section and it should be pruned. We have three images in one section, at least one, maybe two need to be removed. Merhawie 17:07, 3 September 2006 (UTC)

Eritrea rv

You have reverted what seems to be referenced fact. I have no problem with you working on the Eritrea page but you have reverted what has been documented (mind you I haven't checked it out for sure, I don't have the time right now) and also reverted changes to the structure of the document. Also you have also reverted without letting us know which version your reverted to. Just put the discussion up on the talk page. --Merhawie 17:47, 2 October 2006 (UTC)

I don't mind some of the additions, but when all in concert without discussion, and with major formatting issues as a result, reverting was the easiest way. The anonymous user should explain his major changes on the talk page first before controversial changes (e.g. the use of the outdated "Abyssinia," associating the Gash group only with the Nilo-Saharan speaking populations (an association Rodolfo Fattovich does not make), moving the history section to the end, etc. Moreover, some of the information he included was getting too specific for the history section and belongs in the History of Eritrea article. — ዮም | (Yom) | Talk • contribs • Ethiopia 17:56, 2 October 2006 (UTC)

Thanks for the quick response, also you still have not stated which version you reverted to, just so that we know. Thank you! --Merhawie 18:02, 2 October 2006 (UTC)

I reverted to this version, which is identical to the versions I reverted to earlier, and the same version reverted to by [User:MER-C|MER-C]] and Gyrofrog. I won't be able to respond as quickly usually due to a heavy workload so if I'm late in future responses, please excuse me. I'm willing to incorporate some of the changes added by the anon, but not all in concert. — ዮም | (Yom) | Talk • contribs • Ethiopia 18:05, 2 October 2006 (UTC)

I have not removed any referenced material this time (the Damot stuff which if I can recall even you commented on how it is superfluous). On the other hand you did remove referenced material when you removed the "prehistory" part of Eritrea. So I ask for a little balance. Reading the previous Eritrea page, especially the history part, it read something like :Eritrea in relation to Ethiopia, and Ethiopia too and especially Ethiopia and including Ethiopia...traditionally Ethiopian. This is obviously because the chief contributor to the Eritrea page is an Ethiopian and as such has a political interest to over-emphasize Eritrea's historical "Ethiopianness" and downplay the existence of any pre-colonial separate identity that contradicts the concept of any sort of an "Ethiopian" Empire. It is not a NPOV and as an Eritrean I find it the most distasteful form of weaseldom. It would be in the interest of Eritreans as well as those interested in Eritrea to be able to unpeel the labels "Eritrea" (and "Ethiopia" if you must) to understand what lies at the bottom of it all. I do not feel emphasizing Ethiopia to the extent as was done so far is constructive. It should be noted that most of the material in the medeival history section (written by Yom and other Ethiopian contributors) article is not referenced material. Referenced material also does not always spell relevance or accuracy.

Eritrea article history section

I have not removed any referenced material this time (the Damot stuff which if I can recall even you commented on how it is superfluous). On the other hand you did remove referenced material when you removed the "prehistory" part of Eritrea. So I ask for a little balance. Reading the previous Eritrea page, especially the history part, it read something like :Eritrea in relation to Ethiopia, and Ethiopia too and especially Ethiopia and including Ethiopia...This is obviously because the chief contributor to the Eritrea page is an Ethiopian and as such has a political interest to over-emphasize Eritrea's historical "Ethiopianness" and downplay the existence of any pre-colonial separate identity that contradicts the concept of any sort of an "Ethiopian" Empire. It is not a NPOV and as an Eritrean I find it the most distasteful form of weaseldom. It would be in the interest of Eritreans as well as those interested in Eritrea to be able to unpeel the labels "Eritrea" (and "Ethiopia" if you must) to understand what lies at the bottom of it all. I do not feel emphasizing Ethiopia to the extent as was done so far is constructive. It should be noted that most of the material in the history section (written by Yom and other Ethiopian conributors) article is not referenced material. Referenced material also does not always spell relevance.

Also: the history section is what needs to be summarized most of all. I also don't see a problem with NOT starting with the history section, especially if it is going to be this long.

Actually all of the material I have added have references, it's just that I have at times left out putting the references on the page. You call my edits POV and engaging in weaseldom, but I have simply stated the political association of Eritrea in the past: western lands and very far north not much tied to Ethiopia; highlands and coast tied to Ethiopia until 1557, describing the provinces there; then coast not tied; southern coast loosely tied from 17th century. You have made POV edits, however, with clear claims of division by the Mareb river that simply did not exist. No province in the region has ever had the Mareb river as its boundary (Mereb Mellash included Shire, for example), so you cannot claim that it was a "natural colonial border," which is obviously your POV used to interpret the data at hand. You claim about my lack of references, but your only two are one for the Hominid skull found in Eritrea, and for the Gash Group (which Fattovich does not ascribe to any particular people). I can see that some of your information is correct anyway (e.g. the existence of civilization around Asmera in the 9th c. BC, part of the Tihama Cultural Complex stretching from the Tihama in Yemen to western and Southeastern Tigray in Ethiopia), but other parts are plain wrong (Hatshepsut did not travel personally to Punt, she sent an expedition, and that was in the 15th century BC, not 2500 BC; the Beja were not the head of states in central Eritrea; the Belew are interpreted differently by different historians, but they were either Christianized Beja governors of the Zagwe dynasty or simply Arabized Beja rulers in the Sudan and Western Eritrea, depending on whom you ask, and "Medri Bahri" is a later term, not dating to the Zagwe dynasty, but coming in the late medieval period; the Bahr Negash areas always included Shire; the Ummayads only controlled Dahlak for about 100 some years from 702 before it was again part of Aksum in the 9th century, as referenced by al-Ya'qubi; etc., etc.) Let us discuss this issue instead of using insults. — ዮም | (Yom) | Talk • contribs • Ethiopia 03:18, 3 October 2006 (UTC)

Is there any reason why you leave references out? Unless you have better arguments to back your assertions, it is safe to say that your gratuitous insertion of "Ethiopia" into the Eritrea page at large are based on your POV or should I just say, the 'Ethiopian' POV. As for your references, they are no less devoid of your or someone elses concurring POV, especially those that link to other wikipedia pages authored by other Ethiopian contributors or even by yourself. Are these the references you are omitting? That is indeed good judgement. Mareb Mellash means "Beyond Mareb" by the way, not "Around Mareb" or "Close to Mareb". Similarly Bahr Negash means Sea King(dom) not Sea province governor(ate). I never stated that Hatshepsut went on an expedition to Punt. As for the date, thank you indeed for the correction. If I am not mistaken, the reference to Hatshepsut was allready there (including the date). My edit was mainly an omission of the gratuitous mention of "Ethiopia" once more, to replace it with something that has a little more relevance to the "Eritrea" page, a mention of the expedition having gone along and reached the southern west coast of the Red Sea. Regarding yout statements on the Beja, you said it yourself, they are based on the POV of which "historian" you consult. You certainly do not seem to have consulted Al-Yaqubi on that one. The Dahlak can not have remained Axumite for very long in the 9th century because Axum was destroyed in the 10th century.

I don't have access to the references right now and didn't at that time; that's why I left the references out. What you perceive to be an Ethiopian POV is simply a historian's POV,(Yom) | Talk • contribs • Ethiopia 21:30, 3 November 2006 (UTC)

An Ethiopian 'historians' POV:-)

"Mereb Mellash" is Tigrinya, not Amharic (see Patrick Giles' review of Tom Killion's "Historical dictionary of Eritrea")(Yom) | Talk • contribs • Ethiopia 21:30, 3 November 2006 (UTC)

Really? Do you also ask ferenji's what your name is?

First: 'There has never been a country or state known as "Abyssinia."'...then: '"Abissinia (with the "y" coming from "abyss"), which was taken from the Arabic name from Ethiopia (Bilad al-Habash/Bilad al-Ahbush)"'.(Yom) | Talk • contribs • Ethiopia 21:30, 3 November 2006 (UTC)

Which you yourself in other places have claimed has a "native" etymology for (semitic root 'HBST' bla bla bla)...The point is a) you contradict yourself a lot, b) your argument about using the 'native word' for the country is a giant POV topped with absolute rubbish, c) Ethiopians call themselves 'Habesha' and d) you don't need to use the native name otherwise no one will be able to pronounce China or Albania or half of the world's nations..

The Beja were "subordinates of the Zagwe, which is what Taddesse Tamrat seems to be proposing"...(Yom) | Talk • contribs • Ethiopia 21:30, 3 November 2006 (UTC)

Let me guess Taddesse Tamrat is an "Ethiopian historian" too:):) You follow this with a long sleepy rant decked full with "seems to be...I am guessing...err brbrbrbr" which you could come back to us when you actually know something of value (which is not related to Ethiopia):)

This discussion is interesting. I am NOT Ethiopian or Eritrean, but it was my understanding that Eritrea had formed as a result of Italian intervention against the Kingdom of Aksum (Ethiopia). To come here and see so much discussion of Eritrea as a nation with thousands of years of independent history blows me away. History books, teachers, professors, all referred to Eritrea as a nation state formed by the remnants of Italian colonialism in Ethiopia. Anyway, the point is I am utterly confused about who or what to believe in this situation. Thanks for the good reading though. Rafajs77 (talk) 22:29, 6 August 2009 (UTC)

pronunciation

Is it e-RIT-tree-ah or e-rit-TRAY-ah? I've heard both, this article should clarify this. EamonnPKeane 17:52, 3 November 2006 (UTC)

Usually the latter, but I have heard the first pretty often as well. Neither are the native pronounciation, however, which is "értra." — ዮም | (Yom) | Talk • contribs • Ethiopia 20:01, 3 November 2006 (UTC)

Yom is on the right track. Iritrea (something like that anyway) is also common and comes from the Arabic pronunciation. --Merhawie 21:28, 3 November 2006 (UTC)

Current border situation

What is the current border situation? We need to add a "current events flag" there as info is changing --or we hope the situation is changing.--Halaqah 21:27, 17 November 2006 (UTC)

Map

The article references the town of Badme as a source of ongoing conflict yet it is not on the map provided.

Somalia

I see there is nothing about their supposed support of the civil war in Somalia, there have got to be news reports supporting this? Mathmo ^Talk 06:31, 29 December 2006 (UTC)

There appears to be numerous POV violations, although cited properly within the history section in a lengthy paragraph at the end of the Independence section. This area needs to be looked into and cleaned up and the language written in a more neutral stance. --207.114.206.48 (talk) 10:15, 16 December 2007 (UTC)

Eritrean government websites

Does the Eritrean government have an official website? Is there an Eritrean central bureau of statistics or some equivalent agency? If so, does it have a website? Itayb 10:48, 17 February 2007 (UTC)

The Government of Eritrea does not have a central website for statistical information. The only official Government websites are those of the Ministry of Information and the Ministry of Education, www.shabait.com and www.erimoe.gov.er respectively. Merhawie 21:20, 19 February 2007 (UTC)

Thanks. Too bad. By the way, why do you think the Ministry of Information is set in a *.com domain? What does this "shabait" mean? Itayb 21:33, 19 February 2007 (UTC)

Doing a trace...the IP of Shabait.com shows that it is hosted in the United States while the MoE is hosted in Eritrea. Shabait (I believe) is the location of the first broadcast of Radio Dimtsi Hafash (Voice of the Broad Masses) of Eritrea by the Eritrean People's Liberation Front during the Eritrean War of Independence. Merhawie 21:37, 19 February 2007 (UTC)

Thanks. Interesting research. Itayb 15:00, 24 February 2007 (UTC)

Italian

The italian language in not just a minority language left by colonial times. There is a big school "scuola italiana di asmara" under the direct control of italian governament with more than 1500 students (http://81.174.35.51/lombardinelmondo/portal/nazioni/AsiaAfrica/articoli/storiaemigrazione/eritrea/document_view).

There is also the "italian house" and there are a lot of misionaries.

Italian language is spoken much —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 87.11.58.71 (talk) 01:57, 2 March 2007 (UTC).

Italian really is a minority language and spoken almost exclusively in Asmara. However, to be equitable if you could provide a source from perhaps a source akin to the UN or a Governmental agency or something of the sort that would make the argument more credible. Thank you, and we look forward to further contributions. --Merhawie 02:19, 2 March 2007 (UTC)

Asmara itself is 10% of the population... —Preceding unsigned comment added by Udonknome (talk • contribs) 07:57, 28 October 2007 (UTC)

I just can say that i have spend a month in Asmara a couple of years ago, and i have only speak italian with local population.—The preceding unsigned comment was added by 87.6.25.96 (talk • contribs) 00:34, March 5, 2007 (UTC).

I know of course that there remain a population that speaks a measure of Italian, and of course there remains the Italian international school. This however is not an "official" working language and no official documentation is in Italian. Furthermore, when one ventures beyond Asmara, and to a certain extent Massawa, the population that can understand Italian quickly drops to nearly 0. --Merhawie 01:11, 5 March 2007 (UTC)

I agree with user Merhawie's observations. Though anecdotal, my own observations are that Italian is still spoken by older Eritreans, but that over time native knowledge is likely to become minimal. The same situation applies somewhat to Amharic as there are currently several generations who learnt Amharic at school before the revolution. However, Amharic will of course continue to be spoken to some extent, due to the country's close cultural affinity with Ethiopia. Finally, although Italian may not be as widely spoken among Eritreans in future, the language has already left its mark on local languages, with a large body of words bequeathed, not least a ridiculous number of words for coffee.

Dulles

John Foster Dulles was not the Secretary of State in 1952, a year when Harry Truman was still president, and Dean Acheson was his Secretary of State. He was the foreign policy advisor of Eisenhower, I guess, but not yet Secretary of State. So was the statement made when he was secretary of state (in which case not 1952), or was it made before he became secretary of state? john k 14:27, 15 March 2007 (UTC)

GA Review

Article is very well written, and close to GA status. However, it does not pass due to lack of citations. Most notably, there are quite a few 'citation needed' tags at various places in the article. These should be resolved prior to GA status. There are also several sections that are unreferenced: 'administrative divisions', 'politics and government' (only has one citation, to the quote), 'geography', 'languages', 'culture'.

I would recommend combining 'administrative regions' with the 'politics and government' section, since these are related to the government. The 'geography' section should be promoted in the article, probably should fall just after 'history'. There's also no information on the climate in this section, either.

The 'history' section looks very complete and well-written, though is missing citations in several key areas.

Editors might want to review some articles on countries that are already good articles; Egypt might be a good example of another African nation. Cheers! Dr. Cash 01:13, 10 April 2007 (UTC)

National Scout Association of Eritrea

Can someone who speaks Tigrinya render "National Scout Association of Eritrea" and "Be Prepared", the Scout Motto, into Tigrinya? Thanks! Chris 14:34, 7 August 2007 (UTC)

Is it a one party state?

BBC says it is:

• Eritrea is a one-party state, with the ruling People's Front for Democracy and Justice the only party allowed to operate. (BBC Country Profiles)

Wikipedia uses Eritrea as an example of a single-party state (q.v.), so if we decide here that it is not (by virtue of its charter?), then shouldn't we remove Eritrea from that list of examples, to be consistent? --Uncle Ed 13:53, 18 September 2007 (UTC)--Uncle Ed 13:53, 18 September 2007 (UTC)

We can say it "The west considers it a single-party state while it identifies itself as without political parties." Or something to that effect. As for the BBC listing it as such in its country profile, I would hope that you are only using that as a weather vane because BBC information is rife with half-truths (as most media outlets are). --Merhawie 15:43, 18 September 2007 (UTC)

I agree with that statement, if we present something to that effect, it will be a good way to take both the theoretical and practical aspects of the country's politics into view. Rucha 19:39, 18 September 2007 (UTC) —Preceding unsigned comment added by Rucha58 (talk • contribs)

Environment

I've just added a main article section on Environment. This was mainly to to add the stuff on Eritrean elephants. In doing so I also moved the sentences on the coastal environment zone from the Geography section into this section, as it seemed approprirate to the sub-heading. --Iacobus 04:10, 28 September 2007 (UTC)

Expanded history section with colonial details

I've just expanded the history section with details about the colonial regimes and subtitles. I hope this is good and clear for all.

Michael Palomino, 9th October 2007 —Preceding unsigned comment added by 84.74.58.240 (talk) 09:51, 9 October 2007 (UTC)

Fair use rationale for Image:Massawaturkishbuilding.jpg

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Please go to the image description page and edit it to include a fair use rationale. Using one of the templates at Wikipedia:Fair use rationale guideline is an easy way to insure that your image is in compliance with Wikipedia policy, but remember that you must complete the template. Do not simply insert a blank template on an image page.

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BetacommandBot (talk) 07:04, 1 January 2008 (UTC)

questionable information

all of the information in medieval, demograpich and language origin is if not wrong according to most scholars in the various area of expertise it at least debateable —Preceding unsigned comment added by 85.224.200.118 (talk) 06:16, 17 January 2008 (UTC)

questionable information

all of the information in medieval, demograpich and language origin is if not wrong according to most scholars in the various area of expertise it at least debateable —Preceding unsigned comment added by 85.224.200.118 (talk) 06:58, 17 January 2008 (UTC)

Home Office giving papers for Ethiopian not for Eritrean

the united kindom goverment is refusing the real eritrea and giving permission leave to remain to ethiopian.becouse their pentecostl faith believers. thatt's not true. the real Eritrean is getting refuse couse the lack of inforamtion. but the Ethiopian they studied their case since they start their journey to united kindom. and also alotof Eritrean Muslim get refuse. if u compare with christian. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 194.82.139.5 (talk) 13:19, 22 April 2008 (UTC)

Minor correction

corrected Menelik II statement's date from 1989 to 1889 189.102.0.197 (talk) 16:56, 3 May 2008 (UTC)

Grammar

Someone please correct the grammatical errors, they make the whole article look highschoolish.

I did just that--I agree that it was needed. Hope you like it. Markjoseph125 (talk) 16:31, 10 August 2008 (UTC)

GDP numbers

Currently, 3 out of 4 GDP numbers in top-right box are way wrong. Correct numbers according to the cited source (http://www.imf.org/external/pubs/ft/weo/2008/02/weodata/weorept.aspx?sy=2004&ey=2008&scsm=1&ssd=1&sort=country&ds=.&br=1&c=643&s=NGDPD%2CNGDPDPC%2CPPPGDP%2CPPPPC%2CLP&grp=0&a=&pr.x=45&pr.y=15) are: GDP (PPP) total - $3.622 billion; GDP (PPP) per capita - $747; GDP (nominal) total - $1.316 billion; GDP (nominal) per capita - $271 (all are 2007 estimates) —Preceding unsigned comment added by 195.190.134.134 (talk) 08:57, 21 November 2008 (UTC)

Criticism

Moved from the main article:

In 2008 Reporters Without Borders ranked Eritrea last at number 169, unseating the previous record holder North Korea which had been last every other year of the survey. Reporters Without Borders claims that in Eritrea, private newspapers have been shut down and generally exorcised from the country by the President Isaias Afewerki. Also, any journalists who criticize the president or his regime are immediately put into prison; among the many reporters and writers who have been jailed, four may have died in detention.

The reason I moved it is because most country articles don't have a "criticism" section. Secondly, the criticism is of the government and its policies, not of the country, hence doesn't belong here.Bless sins (talk) 22:54, 7 April 2009 (UTC)

Crime in Eritrea

I heard crime is low, but this article has no crime section to reflect this. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 41.11.85.246 (talk) 01:49, 10 August 2009 (UTC)

As an Eritrean i can second that claim, but i think crime is on the rise now 2009 given the economic situation in the country. It can even get worse as the world is brewing new sanctions on the government, which by the way is the only life line left for the people as there are no aid organizations allowed to operate in the country. Its really tragic to see a relatively good spirited and friendly people (that live with religious harmony) subjected into mass poverty and desperation, just to remove some political wrinkles Westerners believe the Horn African region may have.

Geography

The second paragraph of the Geography section begins by stating

"The country is virtually bisected by one of the world's longest mountain ranges..."

Which mountain range is this referring to? Is it really one of the world's longest ranges? Presumably it is not among the top five longest listed here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_mountain_ranges#By_length

This sentence could use some clarification by specifying the mountain range and perhaps dropping use of the phrase "one of the world's longest."