Talk:Pope John Paul II
This is the talk page for discussing improvements to the Pope John Paul II article. This is not a forum for general discussion of the article's subject. |
Article policies
|
Find sources: Google (books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL |
Archives: 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8Auto-archiving period: 90 days |
Please stay calm and civil while commenting or presenting evidence, and do not make personal attacks. Be patient when approaching solutions to any issues. If consensus is not reached, other solutions exist to draw attention and ensure that more editors mediate or comment on the dispute. |
This topic contains controversial issues, some of which have reached a consensus for approach and neutrality, and some of which may be disputed. Before making any potentially controversial changes to the article, please carefully read the discussion-page dialogue to see if the issue has been raised before, and ensure that your edit meets all of Wikipedia's policies and guidelines. Please also ensure you use an accurate and concise edit summary. |
Pope John Paul II was one of the good articles, but it has been removed from the list. There are suggestions below for improving the article to meet the good article criteria. Once these issues have been addressed, the article can be renominated. Editors may also seek a reassessment of the decision if they believe there was a mistake. | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
|
This article is of interest to the following WikiProjects: | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Please add the quality rating to the {{WikiProject banner shell}} template instead of this project banner. See WP:PIQA for details.
Please add the quality rating to the {{WikiProject banner shell}} template instead of this project banner. See WP:PIQA for details.
Please add the quality rating to the {{WikiProject banner shell}} template instead of this project banner. See WP:PIQA for details.
Please add the quality rating to the {{WikiProject banner shell}} template instead of this project banner. See WP:PIQA for details.
Please add the quality rating to the {{WikiProject banner shell}} template instead of this project banner. See WP:PIQA for details.
|
Guild of Copy Editors | ||||
|
A fact from this article was featured on Wikipedia's Main Page in the On this day section on October 16, 2004, October 16, 2005, October 16, 2006, October 16, 2007, October 16, 2008, and October 16, 2009. |
Template:WP1.0 Template:Current Catholic COTW
This article is written in British English, which has its own spelling conventions (colour, travelled, centre, defence, artefact, analyse) and some terms that are used in it may be different or absent from other varieties of English. According to the relevant style guide, this should not be changed without broad consensus. |
|
This page has archives. Sections older than 90 days may be automatically archived by Lowercase sigmabot III when more than 5 sections are present. |
This is the talk page for discussing improvements to the Pope John Paul II article. This is not a forum for general discussion of the article's subject. |
Article policies
|
Find sources: Google (books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL |
Archives: 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8Auto-archiving period: 90 days |
Beatification
Please add extended info on the beatification ceremony not just to this page, but here: Beatification and canonisation of Pope John Paul II#Ceremony. Thanks! - Yk (talk | contrib) 16:46, 30 April 2011 (UTC)
- Hold on for a few hours for the ceremony to actually occur; then I think you'll get your wish. Cresix (talk) 16:48, 30 April 2011 (UTC)
- Actually I was making a note to editors not to forget about that page. But thanks. Yk (talk | contrib) 17:05, 30 April 2011 (UTC)
- Please relink the "beatified" link on the third paragraph of the first part of the article to the article "Beatification and canonisation of Pope John Paul II". Thanks. Sam Sanchez (talk) 08:57, 1 May 2011 (UTC)
- Actually I was making a note to editors not to forget about that page. But thanks. Yk (talk | contrib) 17:05, 30 April 2011 (UTC)
Please change the beginning paragraph to "Pope John Paul II [...] known as Blessed John Paul since his Beatification on May 1, 2011 [...] so as to conform with the style used on the page for Blessed John XXIII. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.61.189.124 (talk) 14:12, 1 May 2011 (UTC)
Please update footnote no. 33 (retreived on 2011-01-14) with more recent references published during or after the beatification such as http://www.romereports.com/palio/John-Paul-II-is-officially-beatified-english-4027.html , http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-13251415 , or http://religion.blogs.cnn.com/2011/05/01/pope-john-paul-ii-declared-blessed-before-huge-crowds/. Thank you Wikigreg1978 (talk) 07:03, 2 May 2011 (UTC) Greg
- If this is done, please use the BBC reference. I'd question the inclusion of the other two, under RS, no offense intended to the poster. If we have a solid source, blogs/etc should not be used. 204.65.34.246 (talk) 22:24, 3 May 2011 (UTC)
Hi Anonymous Poster with IP 204.65.34.246, thank you for your comment wherein in you agree with me to update the references to footnote no. 33 and you suggest that we use BBC as I have proposed. Please note that the two other links can also be used as objective references as they do not appear to be mere personal blogs considering that one reference is from the romereports.com and the other one is from cnn.com (i.e., the second one appears to have been posted by CNN editors although the hyperlink is "religion dot blogs" dot cnn dot com. Thank you. Wikigreg1978 (talk) 11:34, 24 May 2011 (UTC) Greg
Blessed
Shouldn't the word blessed be excluded from the lead per WP:HONORIFIC? -- Mufka (u) (t) (c) 22:23, 1 May 2011 (UTC)
- That's a guideline (not necessarily binding), and there is some flexibility. It states "Where an honorific is so commonly attached to a name that the name is rarely found without it, it should be included". It has been customary to use "Saint", "Blessed", and "Venerable" on Wikipedia. Cresix (talk) 22:36, 1 May 2011 (UTC)
- I deleted blessed from the top image's heading, per WP:RECENTISM. See Pope John XXIII for further explanation. GoodDay (talk) 13:11, 2 May 2011 (UTC)
- There seems to be some back and forth on this issue. Is there consensus that the first word of the lede should not be "Blessed" ? JoeSperrazza (talk) 01:19, 22 June 2011 (UTC)
The Planet Is Alive...Let it Live!
Where should I put this? In the Pop culture or bibliography sec?
"In 1984 Jazz singer Sarah Vaughan recorded an album of poetry written by John Paul II, translated from Polish by Gene Lees. The album was released as The Planet Is Alive...Let it Live!, and accompanied by a television special." Gareth E Kegg (talk) 23:32, 4 May 2011 (UTC)
Citations in lead
There is a crazy number of citations in the lead - up to six for each short statement! If the information in the lead is contained and sourced in the article itself, there is no reason to have any citations in the lead. In any event, no fact needs more than one citation except in the rare event that it is a complex statement where no one source contains all the information. Scolaire (talk) 12:06, 28 July 2011 (UTC)
- I will take silence for agreement. I am going to be bold and remove all the citations. If anybody feels that some or all of them ought to be added in the body of the article, they can all be found here. --Scolaire (talk) 07:57, 2 August 2011 (UTC)
Error in the First Paragraph... I will Correct and Explain
One passage in the first paragraph states that John Paul II "reigned as Pope of the Catholic Church and Sovereign of The Holy See from 16 October 1978 until his death."
The Holy See, as the wikipedia article on it explains, is the episcopal jurisdiction of the Catholic Church in Rome. As such, it is not the same thing as "Vatican City", which is an independent state with the pope as its ruler.
It's academically sloppy and embarrassingly imprecise to call the pope "Sovereign of the Holy See." As pope, he is the bishop of the Holy See, and also the sovereign of Vatican City.
To conflate or confuse the Holy See with Vatican City is inaccurate, as is conflating the pope's role as bishop of Rome with his job as monarch/ruler of the smallest state in the world.
Clearly the sentence in the intro means to refer to Vatican City, not just because of the word "sovereign" which is not an ecclesiastical term, but more obviously because the link itself leads to the page on Vatican City, not the page on the Holy See.
Thus the words themselves should be changed to "Vatican City". I made this edit earlier this year, not anticipating that I would have to explain a distinction that wikipedia itself already overtly acknowledges.
65.24.115.90 (talk) 11:56, 3 August 2011 (UTC)
UPDATE: Also, I just noticed that the article on Pope Benedict XVI does indeed refer to him as "Sovereign of Vatican City State." So for consistency's sake as well, it made no sense to call John Paul II "Sovereign of the Holy See."
65.24.115.90 (talk) 12:24, 3 August 2011 (UTC)
Places named after Pope John Paul II
Hello. Could someone write that there is Jono Pauliaus II aikštė (square) in Vilnius, in front of http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/St._Peter_and_St._Paul%27s_Church,_Vilnius after Pope's visit in Lithuania. Also, there is Jono Pauliaus II gimnazija (gymnasium) in western Vilnius (http://lt.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vilniaus_Jono_Pauliaus_II_gimnazija) and elementary school http://lt.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vilniaus_Jono_Pauliaus_II_pagrindin%C4%97_mokykla --86.100.205.18 (talk) 18:00, 20 August 2011 (UTC)
- Hi, I think the information you refer to would be best placed in the List of places named after Pope John Paul II article.
- On Wikipedia we have a policy that anyone can edit. So please feel free to add this information yourself. :-)
- A useful introduction to editing can be found on the Wikipedia:Anyone can edit article.
- If you are unsure, or need any help with any aspect of Wikipedia, please contact me on my talk page
- Marek.69 talk 22:01, 20 August 2011 (UTC)
Some additional information about Karol Woytyla
From Murder in the Vatican: The Revolutionary Life of John Paul and the CIA, Opus Dei and the 1978 Murders by Lucien Gregoire, Publisher AuthorHouse, 2008 ISBN 1434387232, 9781434387233, page 103, read about it here
Karol progressed from a laborer in a quarry to distribution supervisor of a chemical plant IG Farben had built adjacent to the Auschwitz concentration camp five miles from where he lived in Wadowice. The plant produced chemicals used to gas prisoners. In his job as distribution supervisor, Karol traveled to Treblinka and other camps. The movie The Man Who Would Be Pope starring John Voight correctly depicts Karol's role as supervisor of his chemical supply depot. A resistance leader solicits Karol to divert supplies to the resistance; Karol refuses.
Similar, from Truth Seeker: Do You Belong to the Bride Or the Whore? by X Asiah X Publisher AuthorHouse, 2009 ISBN 1438949278, 9781438949277 page 47 read more about it here
One of their icons, Karol Josef Woytyla who was known as Pope John Paul II, was involved in the extinction of the Jewish people during the Holocaust He sold cyanide and Zyklon B to Hitler, as during the time of the invasion of Poland. Pope John was a salesman for I.G.Farben Industrie AG Chemical Plant.
--71.178.110.141 (talk) 17:11, 11 September 2011 (UTC)
- AuthorHouse is a self-publishing operation. If you want to make such extraordinary claims, then you'll need to cite real reliable secondary sources. Elizium23 (talk) 17:40, 11 September 2011 (UTC)
- If you are not happy with those, there is another one: The Power and the Glory: Inside the Dark Heart of Pope John Paul II's Vatican by David Yallop, Basic Books, 2009, pages 7 and 8 --71.178.110.141 (talk) 18:58, 11 September 2011 (UTC)
- That book is complete and utter bullshit, as is the information you are promoting here. wikipedia prefers facts. Now if you have nothing to add to help actually improve the article instead of to bring down it's quality, please stop posting. This is getting ridiculous.
- Note to others - this IP has, over the last few months, posted from various IP's a list like this under the guise of article improvement only to not respond it substantial ways to objections, often removing the posts of those who disagree. Any attempt to remove it for being irrelevant or not intended for article improvement is met with fury and reporting of the removing user(as he has done to me twice already). The IP is, IMO, excruciating obviously just trying to spam negative and derogatory links regarding the Catholic Church in various articles, to, in effect, "expose the truth" about the Catholic Church (which is, ironically, typically far from actual facts) to those who read the talk pages. I highly suggest ignoring him and hatting this after a couple days. WP:DNFTT. Farsight001 (talk) 17:48, 11 September 2011 (UTC)
- Wikipedia controversial topics
- Delisted good articles
- Old requests for peer review
- B-Class European Microstates articles
- High-importance European Microstates articles
- B-Class Vatican City articles
- Top-importance Vatican City articles
- Vatican City articles
- WikiProject European Microstates articles
- B-Class Christianity articles
- High-importance Christianity articles
- B-Class Saints articles
- High-importance Saints articles
- WikiProject Saints articles
- B-Class Catholicism articles
- Top-importance Catholicism articles
- WikiProject Catholicism articles
- WikiProject Christianity articles
- B-Class biography articles
- Old requests for Biography peer review
- WikiProject Biography articles
- B-Class Poland articles
- High-importance Poland articles
- WikiProject Poland articles
- B-Class Italy articles
- Mid-importance Italy articles
- All WikiProject Italy pages
- WikiProject templates with unknown parameters
- Articles copy edited by the Guild of Copy Editors
- Selected anniversaries (October 2004)
- Selected anniversaries (October 2005)
- Selected anniversaries (October 2006)
- Selected anniversaries (October 2007)
- Selected anniversaries (October 2008)
- Selected anniversaries (October 2009)
- Wikipedia pages with to-do lists
- Wikipedia articles that use British English