Talk:Barry Manilow

Please read and understand Wikipedia:Verifiability, Wikipedia:Citing sources, and Wikipedia:Reliable sources before making additions to this article, or making suggested additions on this article's talk page. Additions made without references which meet this criteria may be deleted. Blogs, e-mails, fansites and statements made in gossip columns do not meet this criteria.

Jewish?

Really? Isn't he an athiest? 82.36.211.254 (talk) 21:33, 8 January 2010 (UTC)

Calling him 'Jewish' is a reference to his ethnicity rather than to his religious beliefs. 95.147.201.79 (talk) 00:26, 30 March 2011 (UTC)

a religion is not an ethnicity. if that were the case then you might as well call paula abdul "muslim" just because she is arab.

besides, manilow was not even RAISED as jewish. he has mentioned that both his jewish mother and catholic step-father were "non-practicing". i am surprised to read here he even HAD a bar mitzvah -- is this verifiable?! did he also have a confirmation on the side??

other than that, i too believe he has stated that he is an atheist. or skeptical agnostic, at least.209.172.25.173 (talk) 23:50, 25 May 2013 (UTC)

Birth date

1943? 1946? 1947? Let's see. The explanation given here makes a lot of sense, though the arguments being put forth by User:Nsandre0449 (among others; it's also made at NNDB) don't hold water (It is well known and clearly stated in this page that Barry Manilow graduated from Eastern District High School in Brooklyn in 1961- making it impossible for him to have been born in 1947. -- not really, I've got friends who graduated high school at 14 and 15.) NNDB does cite Patricia Butler, Barry Manilow: The Biography (2002); we cite that for other material. Manilow's official website is silent regarding his birthdate. Do we have anything more substantial to go on, or should we list the ambiguity as such? --jpgordon^{::==( o )} 16:54, 13 August 2010 (UTC)

The first link is circular, making it an unsuitable source (more for other readers; I know you know that, Josh). I agree the argument doesn't hold water. The NNDB footnote mentions a yearbook saying graduation at 15 is "improbable", before saying the point comes from a chatshow, giving no indication they've seen the yearbook nor how Manilow responded. NNDB reliability is questionable: they self-describe as an 'aggregator', encourage the public to send in changes -- we really don't know about the rigour of any factchecking, and according to its WP talk page copying from this site as well as linkspamming has been common. The company that run it self-describe as a web-host, image gallery developer, and supplier of stock images.

We cite Butler (2001) once, for a Bob Dylan quote. The Google Books preview shows it has June 17, 1943 (p. 13). A search on '1946' provides possibly non-consecutive snippets only ("And so he picked 1946 and he knocked three years off his age." Journalists began faithfully reporting the amended birthdate, which is to this day often ... " p. 101). Its own Sources list comprises some okay -- mostly not specific to him -- yet for the most part poorer sources. It does have exceptionally poor reviews, although this could be down to painting its subject in an unfavourable light; the autobiography Sweet Life: Adventures on the Way to Paradise (1987) has over 20 zealous Amazon.com fan-reviews, all but one rated 4/5 stars. I'd probably make only limited use of Butler, although certainly not to extract or support contentious biographical information. It doesn't seem likely the autobio would touch on the topic. His official Myspace bio is silent on it as well. Let's see what else we have.

The VH1 page is a republish of allmusic.com which, while not ruled out completely by RS/N for article use, is weak, and especially so for disputed blp content. Incidentally, archive.org shows the bio changed to using allmusic freelancer and unashamed Manilow fan S. Huey penned content around March 2004, with a different birth year until at least 2006. Reporting on anger over seat prices, Las Vegas Review-Journal in its twice-weekly entertainment (i.e showbiz gossip) column says they'd originally said he was born in 1946 as that comes up most on search engines but there is a "story ..." -- similar to the one in your first link. A quartet of gossip, search engines, angry fan derived comment and hearsay is a poor source. VNU Entertainment News Wire/e5 Global Media's "This Day in Music: June 14-20" (2010) has 1943. The earlier-cited Larry King interview is unfortunately open to interpretation.

A BBC news piece has 1947, while Grove Music Online, Oxford University Press has: (b New York City, 17 June 1946). Those 2 are reliable. From all I've seen though the main dates given are 1943 and 1946. There doesn't seem much point to noting just the 1947 date. We can't use it as a source, but a longtime fan explains the matter simply here, and in another response writes the record company story has 'never been confirmed by Barry and/or his management'.

To support the claim contrasting the university press's, a similarly reputable and authoritative source (e.g an article in The New York Times, or an interview -- not 'in an [unspecified] interview he once said') is needed. Another reason particularly high quality secondary sources are needed to footnote the ambiguity is because it concerns an apparent official position. I couldn't find any in my brief search. However, I'd be surprised if there isn't one out there, given how long it's apparently been contested. --92.30.59.106 (talk) 19:52, 16 August 2010 (UTC)

Yearbook pages from Eastern District High School show Manilow graduating in Jun 1961 (and voted Best Musician by his senior class) and the pictures are definitely this Barry Manilow (believe it or not, there are others in NY at that time). His age cannot be absolutely determined from the pictures. Yes, he could have skipped a few grades, but if so he didn't indicate it in his autobiography in any way. Other than that, I can find no reliable sources indicating his birth year and until someone finds his birth certificate, a birth announcement in a newspaper, or the 1950 census comes out, we may not be able to confirm it. History Lunatic (talk) 01:22, 20 January 2013 (UTC)History Lunatic

co-wrote

hi I saw on rollingstone magazine's web-site that manilow co-wrote a song with bob dylan but it haven't be released yet, what is that song? when they wrote it? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 201.208.215.216 (talk) 01:49, 17 May 2011 (UTC)

Playboy Adviser

Is there any truth that Barry Manilow wrote the Playboy Adviser in the 60's for advice on wether to launch a music career or follow something safe? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.178.199.89 (talk) 17:33, 30 June 2011 (UTC)

Critical reception

Would it make sense to include a short section on Manilow's reception by critics? It's significant that most critics panned him, and there's a consensus that emerges when you read what they wrote. "Schlock", "maudlin", "sentiment", etc.: these are a constant theme among the critics. If you knew nothing at all about Manilow, and read this article, you wouldn't get this.

If you can source and cite everything said, then yes, go ahead. But you cannot say there is a "consensus" unless a source (and a very good one) says there is a consensus. Same with any claim about "most critics". And you'll equally have some critics who love his work, who have just as much right to be mentioned. --Escape Orbit ^(Talk) 15:28, 6 November 2011 (UTC)

Crunkcore

This source is being used to support including crunkcore as one of Manilow's genres. While Dallas News is usually a reliable source, in this case it is either mistaken or this is somebody's idea of a joke. I doubt there are any other sources out there that identify Manilow as a crunkcore artist. The editor inserting these changes on this page and at crunkcore seems to be gaming the system. Gobōnobō ^{+ c} 09:23, 1 February 2013 (UTC)

I have no reason to doubt the reliability of this source. It has been published for more than 3 years, according to the date-stamp. 76.183.38.120 (talk) 09:29, 1 February 2013 (UTC)

However, a local gossip sheet in Texas with a one liner about Manilow in Las Vegas is not significat coverage to establish crunkcore which does boggle the imagination a bit. noq (talk) 10:19, 1 February 2013 (UTC)

Calling TExas' largest newspaper and one of the largest and most respected in the country a "local gossip sheet" is beyond hyperbole. The statement has a valid source. 76.183.38.120 (talk) 08:10, 3 February 2013 (UTC)

Your little tirade ends here. WP:VERIFY is not the be all and end all. Given the almost certainty that you cannot find another reliable source that describes Manilow as 'crunkcore', the assertion falls within the grounds of WP:FRINGE. Per WP:FRINGE 'A theory that is not broadly supported by scholarship in its field must not be given undue weight in an article about a mainstream idea,[1] and reliable sources must be cited that affirm the relationship of the marginal idea to the mainstream idea in a serious and substantial manner. "Crunkcore legend" is neither a serious nor substantial reference to the artist and his supposed genre. We've given you far too much credit (and time) for something that is clearly an attempt at WP:POINT. -SFK2 (talk) 12:53, 3 February 2013 (UTC)