Talk:Electronic harassment
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Laws in other states/jurisdictions
There's supposedly a law against electronic harassment in Massachusetts, but I haven't found it yet.
Several years ago, Dennis Kucinich tried to get a law passed (HR 2977) referencing "psychotronics", but right now there's no obvious link (in terms of reliable sources) between psychotronics (mind control technologies) and electronic harassment that I'm aware of. Jeremystalked (talk) 22:58, 30 March 2010 (UTC)
There is indeed a law in Massachusetts, prohibiting the possession and use of electronic and directed-energy weapons. See [1] Radgrace (talk) 17:01, 10 March 2014 (UTC)
Recent Edits
Does the page make even the remotest bit of sense right now? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 128.40.46.110 (talk) 12:10, 23 June 2010 (UTC)
- The lawmakers in Maine and Michigan seem to think so. Jeremystalked talk 13:25, 3 July 2010 (UTC)
Taser
Does a Taser count as an electronic weapon? Biscuittin (talk) 21:23, 11 July 2010 (UTC)
- According to Maine's law, it would: a taser is a "portable device or weapon emitting an electrical current, impulse, beam, or wave with disabling effects on a human being". I'm not aware of how often this law is used or whether it has been applied to taser-related offenses.Jeremystalked talk 05:22, 13 July 2010 (UTC)
A gross misrepresentation of sources
I have deleted the section entitled 'Laws against electronic harassment in the United States' as a complete fraud - none of the legislation cited (which is a primary source, and shouldn't be used in this way anyway) refers to 'electronic harassment' at all. Since the article is now unsourced, I shall shortly be nominating it for deletion, unless someone can find reliable published secondary sources which explicitly refer to 'electronic harassment' in the form described in the lede. AndyTheGrump (talk) 16:30, 2 May 2013 (UTC)
Concerned about POV
Doing a little searching for eletronic harassment brought up the story that I've added in external links - that Aaron Alexis claimed he was being harassed shortly before the Washington Navy Yard shooting.
I'm nervous of writing the article and using this info without something to balance that very extreme position and the implication that people who hear voices could all suddenly snap and go on a rampage, but the other sources don't offer anything clear to balance it out. I'm going to continue thinking about this before finalising the article, but I think I've established with the sources that there is space for this article so anyone watching this page please help to improve it rather than redirecting/deleting. GDallimore (Talk) 16:10, 10 March 2014 (UTC)
Semi-protected edit request on 10 March 2014
This edit request has been answered. Set the |answered= or |ans= parameter to no to reactivate your request. |
This page needs more substantive information, especially information from organizations of individuals experiencing electronic harassment and media sources citing the same. Radgrace (talk) 16:52, 10 March 2014 (UTC)
- Not done: it's not clear what changes you want made. Please mention the specific changes in a "change X to Y" format. — {{U|Technical 13}} (t • e • c) 17:07, 10 March 2014 (UTC)
- And the last thing this article needs is to become a repository of harassment allegations from individuals identified as delusional by every reliable source I can find. GDallimore (Talk) 18:01, 10 March 2014 (UTC)
Biased sources and lack of research effort on the subject
I'm kind of amazed with this article and it's lack of effort to provide a reliable idea about what electronic harassment is. The term electronic harassment could be linked with any activity involving the use of non-lethal weaponry -usually based on electromagnetic beams- to harass, disrupt or discourage activities from groups or civilians.
The existence of this weaponry is better described on articles like DEW and Microwave auditory effects, this last based on a disclosed document from DoD describing the potential effects of the exotic electromagnetic weapons on human targets and the congruence of the symptoms with psychological/psychiatric conditions for the target or third parties:
"Secret NOFORN" in the USA from (at the latest) 1998, until the declassification on 6 December 2006 of "Bioeffects of Selected Non-Lethal Weaponry" in response to a FOIA request. Application of the microwave hearing technology could facilitate a private message transmission. Quoting from the above source, "Microwave hearing may be useful to provide a disruptive condition to a person not aware of the technology. Not only might it be disruptive to the sense of hearing, it could be psychologically devastating if one suddenly heard "voices within one's head".Source to original document
Here is another source on "Microwave Bioeffect Congruence with Schizophrenia" to be checked extending the exotic weaponry issue even more.
In the other hand, this article it's merely based on old newspaper appreciations plus the attempt of the editors trivial knowledge about the subject, even using as external references the case of Navy Yard shooting generalizing the possible targets/victims with not only insanity but terrorist/violent tendencies. With little research you find articles describing this weapon capability or the concerning around the world. Also, the new findings -thanks to whistleblower Edward Snowden- on remote technologies to gather/recover information using remote technologies shows that these devices aren't merely speculations or sci-fi conspiracies (Top secret devices CTX4000 and LOUDAUTO).
So, I'm not asking to the editors to believe on possible victims stories, to include conspiracy websites nor to drop their current sources if they think those are reliable sources, but to improve their research efforts and add the other side of the story that's absolutely not reduced to groups of mentally ill and dangerous people as the article try to evidence. Sorry if my Wiki edition isn't very good I'm newbie to the platform. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Motheus (talk • contribs) 17:08, 21 March 2014 (UTC)
- Your inline citations aren't working. Let me know if you need some help. - Synsepalum2013 (talk) 13:36, 22 March 2014 (UTC)
Edit: Fixed the links as citations didn't work as i expected. Still learning how to use wiki's bbcode. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Motheus (talk • contribs) 08:01, 23 March 2014 (UTC)
The real defintion of Electronic Harassment
Electronic Harassment is the use of electronics or electrical equipment for the purpose of harassing an individual from a distance. This could include easedropping to collect information for smearing or slandering a person, or use of hidden energy emitting devices that make a person feel uncomfortable. It may also include use of electronics to exert sublimital influence to trick a person into making mistakes or bad decisions that cause embarassment, finanial loss, or huminiation. It may also include use of gps tracking to influence people near the individual to harass, or to indirectly relay information to the person being electronically harassed.
Other topics under electronic harassment subject:
— Preceding unsigned comment added by 207.255.205.112 (talk) 04:42, 22 March 2014 (UTC)
Electronic harassment smear campaigns
In the past there have been efforts to smear and hide that electronic harassment is real by confusing it with people who are insane. The reality is that it is possible to electronically harass people. Even the use of Electromagnetic radiation is not far fetched give that the US military even has harassment weapons based off of microwaves that can cause a crowd of people to run from the area. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 207.255.205.112 (talk) 04:45, 22 March 2014 (UTC)
There are documented cases of the mob using operating microwave ovens cut open on one side to soften up their enemies by holding them against the wall in adjacent hotel rooms, and apartments. This was public shown on TV on documentaries related to mob activity.
With regards to Electromagnetic radiation, A clear sign that electronic harassment is real is damage to the most sensitive areas such as the eyes or testies. Or in the case where ionizing radiation is used unusual development of skin leasons, darking of skin, cell deaths leaving bowl shapes in the limbs where direction radiation was cronically exposed. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 207.255.205.112 (talk) 04:47, 22 March 2014 (UTC)
Electronic harassment is really about harassing a person at a distance in order to remain anonymous and to use any electronics or electrical devices possible to harass the person. this could even include something as mundane as turning on a car alarm every night at 3 am for an hour to make sure the person can't sleep. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 207.255.205.112 (talk) 04:55, 22 March 2014 (UTC)
- This is not a forum for general discussions regarding electronic harassment. Please confine future posts to material of direct relevance to article content - which must be based on published reliable sources on the subject. AndyTheGrump (talk) 05:16, 22 March 2014 (UTC)
sections requiring aditional sources, rewriting and improvement
This material does not comply with multiple Wikipedia policies, and accordingly is of no relevance to article content. Any further misuse of this talk page is liable to result in the material being deleted, and/or the contributor responsible being blocked from editing. Talk pages are reserved for discussions concerning policy-compliant revisions to articles - they are not a dumping ground for other material. If you wish to propose specific changes to the article, familiarise yourself with WP:RS, WP:FRINGE, WP:N and in particular, WP:NPOV, and then make the appropriate proposals. AndyTheGrump (talk) 01:27, 3 August 2014 (UTC) |
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The following discussion has been closed. Please do not modify it. |
leadeElectronic harassment is the use of Directed-energy weapons (also called Non-lethal weapons) to harass a victim. 84.106.11.117 (talk) 00:50, 3 August 2014 (UTC) HistoryIn November of 1992, a Wall Street Journal (WSJ) article mentions a mind-control operation performed jointly between the United States and Canada beginning in 1955. Financed by the Central Intelligence Agency through a phony front organization called the Investigation of Human Ecology, about $60-75,000 went to Dr. Ewen Cameron at McGill University in Montreal, Canada. The Canadians allegedly picked up the rest of the tab, of about $200,000. Even though this is 1950s dollars, considering the nature of covert funding there is no real way to know exactly how much was spent on this project the article states. [2] 1962, During the Cold War era, the Frey, an American neuroscientist studied this phenomenon and was the first to publish results in the (Journal of Applied Physiology, Vol. 17, pages 689-692, 1962) detailing the nature of the microwave auditory effect. This is how the name, “Frey effect” became known as one of many names for this technology such Synthetic / Artificial Telepathy, Neural Decoding, and the “Hearing Voices” effect. Today this technology is more commonly known by the Department of Defense and within the neuro-scientific community as Synthetic Telepathy or Voice of God technology. However overall combined research program focusing on mind control efforts date back decades Project Bluebird In 1975 official admissions of a technological capability to transmit human voices directly into the human brain via technology, capable, of isolating a single individual in a crowd, Microwave auditory effect was exampled during a presentation by Dr. Don R Justesen, a Department of Veterans Affairs Hospital Neuroscientist, Kansas City, Missouri, in 1975. And the presentation was published as an article entitled "Microwaves and Behavior" in The American Psychologist (Volume 30, March 1975, Number 3) as a successful a successful voice-to-skull, microwave voice transmission, using the Frey effect, named after Allan H. Frey. [3] In 2001, Congressman Dennis Kucinich factually tried to curtail the use of electromagnetic radio frequency technology, which he documented as land, sea, and space based and capable of mood management via radio frequencies, in his Space Preservation Act of 2001 HR 2977, [4]. The technology in question today is also portable such as the “Silent Guardian” manufactured by Raytheon, and hand held such astaser which are smaller versions of the Active Denial System or Microwave technologies. Missouri State Representative Jim Guest attempted in 2007 to rally his constituents against microwave Directed Energy Weapon's extremely low frequency used as covert physical torture, in an official letter [5] which many report is part of Electronic torture, by substantiating the technology’s use on U.S. citizens and even children, termed by Jim guest as Electronic Weapon Torture. Approval for usage today is no longer exclusive for the Federal level, but also today State, City and local agencies have highly developed technical operation divisions, today being used in the testing program legalized to test technology for riot and crowd control approved under the “Exception Clause” of U.S. Code, Title 50, Chapter 32, Section 1520a [6], Electronic Surveillance Laws, and along with similar legalized use by DOD regulation 5240 1.R [7] deployed from state-of-the art operation centers, to include, for example, the LAPD Real Time Analysis and Critical Response Division (RACR) the Satellite Surveillance Division a typical example of deployment by local law enforcement agencies across the US. connected to joint efforts by Fusion center which were 72 across the U.S. in 2010, and have significantly grown, and military operations. In creating highly technical Fusion Center’s, with fall back technology and connecting all levels of law enforcement operation centers, and military personnel stationed with the US, the Department of Homeland Security (DHS) hoped to create a wide network of centers which would be tied to the agency’s day-to-day activities according to the Electronic Privacy Information Center (EPIC). As a result, a new paradigm has emerged of covert and new technological dynamic termed “Electronic Harassment” with characteristics similar to targeting of COINTELPRO. COINTELPRO was the 1960 program of the Federal Bureau of Investigation (FBI) aimed at destroying groups on the American political left, targeting activist or whistle-blowers, etc. 84.106.11.117 (talk) 00:50, 3 August 2014 (UTC) DiagnosisThe Washingtonpost and NBC describe alleged victims as suffering from auditory hallucinations, delusional disorders and other mental illnesses.[8][9] After the Korean War, returning U.S. Prisoner of war (POWs) reported to Dr. W. Ross Adey, a neuroscientist working for Walter Reed, and later Pettis Memorial Veterans Hospital, and Loma Linda, California and UCLA, reported that while captive, the Koreans were using a device attempting to extract information using a Brainwave entrainment machine. Dr. Adey learned that the device was actually a Russian device called the LIDA Machine, and a mini version of the Russian Woodpecker detailed here Duga-3. He was given a machine by the Russians for study and testing began within the United States immediately. The Soviets were, at that time, were far ahead in scientific research, related to brain entrainment frequencies, in fact, it would take what history documents as the Moscow Incident, [10] Most in the psychiatric community had no real knowledge of these technologies, dating back decades in research, testing and development programs, nor did they have the ability to check and verify the existence of such when seeing victims of Electronic Harassment. Today, highly education individuals within the profession of psychiatry cannot be that blind and many activist would argue continue to play a pivotal role in discrediting victims which continues to allow these type of technology to continue and flourish. In fact, it is historically documented that MK ULTRA was spearheaded by psychiatrist, many of whom were high level officials of the American Psychiatric Association with the US and the Psychiatric Association of Canada who were willingly taking CIA funding to progress Remote Neural Monitoring studies, and technological development knowing these technologies emulate mental illnesses. [11]. Many who claim to be victims have become proactive and have taken their plight to the public via the internet[12] and books and some Targeted Individuals or TIs, have won small victories of some type related to Electronic Harassment in the court system. James Walbert, Kansas City, Missouri of Kansas City, Missouri, was one, supported by Jim Guest’s confirmation of the technology along with unclassified documents presented at court won after the defendant was a no show, and recently, a victory for Kathleen Watterson of Oakland, California against a member of her community privy to use of this technology through what is reported as InfraGard but are reported as Organized Community Stalking efforts and an arm of “Electronic Harassment”. Both of these victories were against individual involvement and use of portable Electronic Harassment technology. However, to date, no one has been able to successfully litigate against powerful government agencies and their spearheading of these efforts and a number of noteworthy Plaintiff’s such as ex-National Security Agency (NSA) contractor, John St. Clair Akwei vs. National Security Agency have been dismissed. [13].
84.106.11.117 (talk) 00:50, 3 August 2014 (UTC) microwave auditory effect
The microwave auditory effect, also known as the microwave hearing effect or the Frey effect, consists of audible clicks (or, with speech modulation, spoken words) induced by pulsed/modulated microwave frequencies. The clicks are generated directly inside the human head without the need of any receiving electronic device. The effect was first reported by persons working in the vicinity of radar transponders during World War II. These induced sounds are not audible to other people nearby. The microwave auditory effect was later discovered to be inducible with shorter-wavelength portions of the electromagnetic spectrum. During the Cold War era, the American neuroscientist Allan H. Frey studied this phenomenon and was the first to publish[14] information on the nature of the microwave auditory effect. Pulsed microwave radiation can be heard by some workers; the irradiated personnel perceive auditory sensations of clicking or buzzing. The cause is thought to be thermoelastic expansion of portions of auditory apparatus.[15] The auditory system response occurs at least from 200 MHz to at least 3 GHz. In the tests, repetition rate of 50 Hz was used, with pulse width between 10–70 microseconds. The perceived loudness was found to be linked to the peak power density instead of average power density. At 1.245 GHz, the peak power density for perception was below 80 mW/cm2.[citation needed] However, competing theories explain the results of interferometric holography tests differently. [16] In 2003, the US Navy conducted research on an MAE system they called MEDUSA (Mob Excess Deterrent Using Silent Audio) as a way to remotely, temporarily incapacitate personnel.[17][18][19] The system was designed by WaveBand Corporation in 2003-2004.[18] The system relied on the principle of MAE, varying the power and parameters of the microwave pulses “to raise the auditory sensation to the ‘discomfort’ level, deterring personnel from entering a protected perimeter or, if necessary, temporarily incapacitating particular individuals.”[18] There are extensive online support networks and numerous websites maintained by people fearing mind control.[20] Psychologists are divided over whether such sites negatively reinforce mental troubles or act as a form of group cognitive therapy.[9][21] Those who claim to be victims of Electronic harassment have claimed that government agents make use of electric fields, microwaves (such as the microwave auditory effect) and radar to transmit sounds and thoughts into their heads, referring to technology that they say can achieve this as "voice to skull" or "V2K" after an obsolete military designation.[8][22][23] 84.106.11.117 (talk) 00:50, 3 August 2014 (UTC) Project MKUltra
thumb|Declassified MKUltra documents
The scope of Project MKUltra was broad, with research undertaken at 80 institutions, including 44 colleges and universities, as well as hospitals, prisons and pharmaceutical companies.[33] The CIA operated through these institutions using front organizations, although sometimes top officials at these institutions were aware of the CIA's involvement.[34] As the Supreme Court later noted, MKULTRA was:
Project MKUltra was first brought to public attention in 1975 by the Church Committee of the U.S. Congress, and a Gerald Ford commission to investigate CIA activities within the United States. Investigative efforts were hampered by the fact that CIA Director Richard Helms ordered all MKUltra files destroyed in 1973; the Church Committee and Rockefeller Commission investigations relied on the sworn testimony of direct participants and on the relatively small number of documents that survived Helms' destruction order.[36] In 1977, a Freedom of Information Act request uncovered a cache of 20,000 documents relating to project MKUltra, which led to Senate hearings later that same year.[26][37] In July 2001 some surviving information regarding MKUltra was officially declassified. Before 1977 the New York Times describe the CIA Project of Behavior Modification and different types of Directed-energy weapon, patents, research, testing and development.[38]. 84.106.11.117 (talk) 00:50, 3 August 2014 (UTC) Conspiracy TheoryOn Jesse Ventura's Television show "Conspiracy Theory", episode "Brain Invaders", Harlan Girard, one of the first activist related to the use of Military Industrial Complex technology, listed the “Mind Games” article. Referenced within this article is an interview with Sharon Weinberger as a victim of over 30 years of Electronic Harassment.[39] Also spotlighted are insiders privy to the development of Voice to Skull for mainstream use in America, is Dr. Robert Duncan,author of "Project: Soul Catcher Secrets of Cyber and Cybernetic Warfare Revealed" who claimed that today voice to skull (V2K) or Synthetic Telepathy technology is used in the U.S. and many NATO countries, along with bio-coded Biometric Surveillance Biometrics Surveillance and a combined effort coupled with a Directed Energy Weapon global tracking system. Many are reporting being used, non-consensually, due to necessitated testing, legally, after 9/11, designed to track and monitor “Domestic Terrorist”.[40] 84.106.11.117 (talk) 00:50, 3 August 2014 (UTC) PsychotronicsIn Russia, a group called "Victims of Psychotronic Experimentation" attempted to recover damages from the Federal Security Service during the mid-1990s for alleged infringement of their civil liberties including "beaming rays" at them, putting chemicals in the water, and using magnets to alter their minds. These fears may have been inspired by revelations of secret research into "psychotronic" psychological warfare techniques during the early 1990s, with Vladimir Lopatkin, a State Duma committee member in 1995, surmising "Something that was secret for so many years is the perfect breeding ground for conspiracy theories."[41] In the US, there are a growing number of people who hear voices in their heads that claim the government is using "psychotronic torture" against them, and who campaign to stop the use of alleged psychotronic and other mind control weapons.[8][21] These campaigns have received some support from government representatives including Dennis Kucinich[8] and Jim Guest.[21] Yale psychiatry professor Ralph Hoffman notes that people often ascribe voices in their heads to external sources such as government harassment, God, and dead relatives, and it can be difficult to persuade them that their belief in an external influence is delusional.[8] Other experts compare these stories with accounts of alien abductions.[21] 84.106.11.117 (talk) 00:50, 3 August 2014 (UTC) Biometric data miningThe Information Awareness programs goal was to download biometric characteristics all U.S. citizen’s using biometric signatures (DNA, Iris, gait, voice, facial recognition, etc.) into a mega computer resulting which could result with anyone becoming the focus for technology testing or in anyone being effortlessly tracked and monitored any and everywhere on the face of the Earth with ease without those at the helm even leaving the building via Brain-computer interface. 84.106.11.117 (talk) 00:50, 3 August 2014 (UTC) Patent ArtThe United Patent and Trademark Office officially lists numerous electromagnetic patents known to create the identical technological effect characteristic of what target’s call Voice to Skull (V2K) and what the Military Industrial Complex calls the Voice of God technology, for example, the MEDUSA (weapon which essentially is the Microwave auditory effect or Frey effect as portable. The satellite delivered method capable of harassment and mood management, is exampled by technology known as the Neurophone. The Neurophone was invented by Patrick Flanagan, confiscated, immediately, placed under secrecy orders by the United States government in 1958 and returned to Flanagan in 1968. [42]. Other patents, such as Robert Malech’s patent for brainwave altering is another version reported to be in widespread use [43]. Malintent is the official Department of Homeland Security (DHS) mind reading super computer software system interpreting brainwave patterns into sentences [44]. 84.106.11.117 (talk) 00:50, 3 August 2014 (UTC) External links
84.106.11.117 (talk) 00:50, 3 August 2014 (UTC) References
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Are the above content proposals in violation of guidelines?
I believe the current article, the way it is, to be inconsistent with Project_MKUltra. Primarly because no one did anything the last 4 years[1], I've attempted to reintroduce and update some of the older content in main space but was interrupted while doing so by an editor who did not believe I could accomplish such article. It seemed logical to debate the deleted sections and would like to continue to source and update the deleted/unaccepted sections here on the talk page. This was also not allowed[2]. While I agree the material is quite elaborate and much of it doesn't make the cut, it does deserve a discussion and I'm not aware of limitations on talk page proposals. If it is really not allowed, I wonder what legitimate method remains to improve this article so that it is more in-line with the MKUltra project?
The current sources provided denouncing the "hoax" are:
- http://www.jrn.com/kmir6/news/179055911.html
- http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/01/10/AR2007011001399.html
- http://www.nytimes.com/2008/11/13/fashion/13psych.html?pagewanted=all
I believe these insuficient to prove the imaginary nature of Directed-energy_weapon, Sonic weapon and other Non-lethal weapon, but specially Project_MKUltra.
84.106.11.117 (talk) 02:27, 3 August 2014 (UTC)
- There is no requirement whatsoever that this article be 'consistent' with any other - particularly one on another subject. What matters is that this article be properly sourced, that it reflects Wikipedia policies on neutral point of view etc (which I recommend you read carefully - it is often misunderstood), and that it otherwise gives proper encyclopaedic coverage of the subject matter. And as for what you believe about 'proving' anything, it is utterly irrelevant - Wikipeda articles are based on published reliable sources, not on the beliefs of contributors. AndyTheGrump (talk) 02:36, 3 August 2014 (UTC)
- Whatever you say, you are not here to write any article. That is the only relevant bit of information. Look at all the red contritions:[3] The only green numbers are when you restore deleted content. Even those are just to antagonize productive editors. Perhaps the previous 500 contributions??? Nope[4] not one example of article writing there. And from this position of illiteracy, you are going to lecture me about article writing??????? How talk pages work??????? You've never successfully used one!!! You chose to take ownership of this talk page in order to prevent anything constructive from happening. It was not with the intention to work on this article, your activities do not involve article writing. The question therefore is not what I'm doing on this page but what you are doing here? Why should anyone care for an opinion about a talk page from an editor who never writes articles?
- Just to answer the RfC I was going to write a long diatribe about 84.106.11.117's behaviour. Instead I will just say that Andy the Grump is right, and working within policy and guidelines to improve this article, and wikipedia in general. props. On the other hand, 84.106.11.117, should this behaviour continue, is heading for a long block for disruptive editing and tendentiousness. (I doubt ATG cares about the associated incivility). 84.106.11.117 needs to appreciate that in order to edit here, we are obliged to do so within the policies and guidelines of the community. -Roxy the dog (resonate) 08:52, 3 August 2014 (UTC)
- In answer to the RfC, Yes. Proving the imaginary nature of something is backwards (see Russell's teapot). Reliable sources to support the reality of something one wishes to assert or discuss in WP articles is what is required. The list of appropriate policies starts with the three core policies WP:V, WP:NPOV and WP:OR a good look at the guidelines WP:FRINGE, WP:RS and WP:FRIND would provide further elucidation. The OP should consider the guidelines WP:DE and WP:CIVIL and read carefully the essay WP:TE. - - MrBill3 (talk) 10:06, 3 August 2014 (UTC)
- The talk page of an article is not the appropriate place to create and develop a proposed rewrite or extensive content. The sandbox is a fine place to develop an argument that the Flying Spaghetti Monster is instructing the Invisible Pink Unicorn to provide mechanisms for total human domination. Once fully developed with proper sourcing and proportional representation of significant published views as due, a pointer to the sandbox where The Truth™ is revealed can be provided on the talk page of the target article. - - MrBill3 (talk) 10:17, 3 August 2014 (UTC)
- I'd like to point out to Bill3 that wikipedia policy insists that we do not use the ™ modifier on wikipedia. Please be careful. thanks. -Roxy the dog (resonate) 10:23, 3 August 2014 (UTC)
Everything that could be said in response to this RFC has already been said: ie pointing the editor to the relevant guidelines. The problem is that the proposed edits are so far removed from anything remotely acceptable that there is nothing more that can be done or said until the editor has taken the time to educate themselves.
If the editor really does want to contribute usefully to this article, then making a 20K addition to it is not the way forward. Only small edits and corrections, clearly based on reliable sources, could ever be agreed upon. Everything else would just be reverted on sight. GDallimore (Talk) 11:02, 3 August 2014 (UTC)
Agree with practically everything in the foregoing responses to the RFC, and generally strongly. Incidentally, the standard of balance, courtesy and logic in the initiator's response to helpful contributions does not inspire either respect or the desire to waste his time by contributing further comments. However, he in turn need not take too seriously his responsibility to enlighten us all; in that connection any dereliction on his part might be borne philosophically JonRichfield (talk) 09:45, 22 August 2014 (UTC)
Discussing "Electronic Harassment" content
It may not be correct to limit "electronic harassment" cases exclusively to "auditory hallucinations, delusional disorders or other mental illnesses" of those who claim to be "recipients" of microwave "treatment". It is just as possible that persons, suffering from mental illnesses and yet un-institutionalised, may belong to the opposite, i.e. "active" party. Such individuals, possessing sufficient technical knowledge and resources to rework any of commercially available sources of electromagnetic radiation, can inflict real bodily harm on their predominantly sane neighbors. I suggest the author of this article try to get rid of this discriminating attitude. Baruchim (talk) 08:11, 18 September 2014 (UTC)
- Do you have reliable sources that say that this is the case? If not, such speculation would be original research, which is expressly forbidden on Wikipedia. Kolbasz (talk) 10:03, 18 September 2014 (UTC)
- What do you call "reliable sources"? Something with a government stamp on it? There is a testimony (among many others on the Internet) where a third-party witness tells a story of his neighbor who called the EMERCOM service (maintained by the Russian Ministry for Emergency Situations) complaining that he was beamed on with microwaves by the residents of the apartment directly above his. The EMERCOM guys came with a firm belief that the caller were yet another loonie. What they saw in his apartment further hardened them to the view that it was an obvious case of paranoia. However, they decided to have a look in the apartment above. To their amazement they saw there six microwave ovens without doors lying on the floor, and were also were told by the local tenants that the guy living below "was an alien who needed to be exterminated ASAP". Is this story true? — both answers are equally possible. Can you prove to me from "reliable sources" that all "victims" of EMR are loonies by definition, and those who live in neighboring apartments are all by default sane and sound people? Hardly... The intent of what I am suggesting is to attain in this article an attitude of parity and equality for such cases. The reality of EMR "malfeasance" can be proven by the following facts:
- 1) the fact that it is technically feasible and hardware for this is easily available;
- 2) the fact that nowadays (partly) insane people are often living among sane ones;
- 3) the fact that there exist objective instrumental ways of detecting elevated EMR;
- 4) the fact that EMR can really harm human organism;
- 5) the fact that in many countries "electronic harassment" is already regarded as a malpractice punished under the law.
- I think this is enough for now...
- Baruchim (talk) 14:09, 18 September 2014 (UTC)
- Let me re-emphasize the point that Kolbasz made, that the material in Wikipedia articles must be derived from reputable published sources. That's particularly important for articles such as this one. If you feel that mainstream published sources are wrong, I'm sorry, but Wikipedia is not the place where that wrong will be righted. Looie496 (talk) 14:36, 18 September 2014 (UTC)
- Taking doors off microwave ovens wouldn't do a lot, since the mw emissions are focused on the floor of the oven and not aimed out its door. Might make the floor slightly warm but that's about all. Not to mention the problem of arranging the 60 or so amps of electrical power you would need to run such an array. - LuckyLouie (talk) 22:16, 18 September 2014 (UTC)
- You need a reliable source to back up that assertion ;) GDallimore (Talk) 08:50, 19 September 2014 (UTC)
- 60 A? Like most countries, Russia uses 230 V. 6 × 1100 W (a normal power draw for a low-end microwave oven) @ 230 V would require less than 30 A. :)
But I think we've gone off topic now... Kolbasz (talk) 14:00, 19 September 2014 (UTC)- Damn. The microwave-oven-modifying-EMR=harassment cabal is too clever for me. - LuckyLouie (talk) 15:02, 19 September 2014 (UTC)
- 60 A? Like most countries, Russia uses 230 V. 6 × 1100 W (a normal power draw for a low-end microwave oven) @ 230 V would require less than 30 A. :)
- Still I remain concerned with such wording as: "Electronic harassment is the alleged use of electromagnetic waves to harass a victim". What I dislike is the word "alleged" which means here "imagined" or "ungrounded". I believe this is contrary to the generally known fact that EMR can harm and even damage human health, can't it? And we are not talking about microwave ovens only. EMR emitters can be procured, reworked and used for malignant purposes by desiring individuals. This article, however, intends to reduce everything just to wishful thinking (such as "mind control", "inner voices", etc). Then the author should be more consistent and say: "...to harass their would-be victims." I call for being more objective and fair, avoiding one-sided approach wherever possible. Why couldn't we say "...is the often alleged but still technically feasible use of electromagnetic waves..."? - Baruchim (talk) 09:01, 24 September 2014 (UTC)
- Your personal concerns are irrelevant. Find a reliable source which specifically mentions harrassment by EM waves and which shares your concerns and we can talk. All existing reliable sources state that electronic harrassment is a form of persecutory delusion, therefore that is what this article says.
- The key point is that the obvious fact that EM waves can cause harm is not sufficient to be relevant to this article without the same source specifically connecting the dots between that potential to cause harm and actual harrassment of individuals. You are trying to connect dots yourself and that cannot be the basis of any change to this article. GDallimore (Talk) 21:11, 24 September 2014 (UTC)
Archiving
This talk page should be (auto) archived. I will do it when I get a chance, if no one objects. - - MrBill3 (talk) 21:47, 20 September 2014 (UTC)
It's just another word for terrorism
Electronic harassment is real and is explicitly outlawed in many cases US laws. Specifically, they are weapons of mass destruction under US law for using "radiaion or radioactivity". EM radiation is a form of radiation and intelligence and terror organizations hate having their technology exposed. The fact that the people nvolved are so desperate to cover up their terrorism and covert murders by polluting wikipedia should not be surprising.