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This is an old revision of this page, as edited by RomanRace (talk | contribs) at 13:58, 16 November 2017 (→‎Name). The present address (URL) is a permanent link to this revision, which may differ significantly from the current revision.

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Portrait

The portrait of Timur in the article infobox has a few problems
1. Colour, the image is black and white and you can see the glare of light.
2. The claim that the image is from a timurid era manuscript would make the image more preferable except that the file description says it's probably a copy of an original. plus miniatures or manuscripts of the time would probably have been coloured in the way a Persian Miniature is coloured.
3. This image is a bit dull and not quite "good looking", though it's satisfactory

So i was thinking we could use the image to the right. It's coloured, good quality, artistic, and visually pleasing (could use some cropping). ANYTHING other than the current article portrait!

Timur073767 (talk) 20:52, 18 November 2015 (UTC)[reply]

trying to sort out the clarification need template

"Timur was dispatched on a mission to the invader's camp, which resulted in his own appointment to the head of his own tribe, the Barlas, in place of its former leader, Hajji Beg." --> my ref says he inherited the chieftainship about the same time as he was appointed governor of Transoxania. (Hannah) -- taking the text that seems to be incorrect here, in case someone who knows more thinks my reference is the one that is wrong. It does not mention Haiji Beg. Elinruby (talk) 04:58, 31 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Also moving this paragraph and embedded comments here for much the same reason. Will indent the comments so they appear (rather than in comment markup):

The exigencies of Timur's quasi-sovereign position compelled him to have recourse to his formidable patron, whose reappearance on the banks of the Syr Darya created a consternation not easily allayed.

clarify|date=May 2015 comment: (Clarify template added after this comment placed here. Request for clarification is warranted.) I know the meaning of every $10 word used here, but still can't work out what the sentence is supposed to mean. Timur was acting semi-independently, pressing needs forced him to require help from his patron (who was?), so why would this cause consternation?)

One of Tughlugh's sons was entrusted with the Barlas's territory, along with the rest of Transoxiana, but he was defeated in battle by the bold warrior he had replaced, at the head of a numerically inferior force.

clarify|date=May 2015 comment: (Clarify template added after this comment placed here. Request for clarification is warranted.) Who was defeated? Tughlugh, Tughlugh's son or Timur? Who had the inferior force? My guess was that Timur's smaller force defeated Tughlugh's son, but reading the next section suggests it was Tughlugh who was defeated. The sentence is poorly written)
I believe I have resolved that last question with the text I wrote in from the hannah reference Elinruby (talk) 05:16, 31 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Conquest of Smyrna

The Human Journey: A Concise Introduction to World History, Volume 1 By Kevin Reilly

https://books.google.com/books?id=v1...page&q&f=false https://books.google.com/books?id=v12nkhHzD7UC&pg=PA164#v=onepage&q&f=false


When European ships sailed to relieve Smyrna, Timur warned them away by filling the harbor with floating plates carrying the severed heads of the garrison defenders lit from inside the skulls by burning candles.

The History of Nations, Volume 14 edited by Henry Cabot Lodge

https://books.google.com/books?id=M6...page&q&f=false https://books.google.com/books?id=M6Q-AAAAYAAJ&pg=PA51#v=onepage&q&f=false

It was the custom of the Tartar conqueror to rear a vast pyramid of human heads when any great city had been captured by his troops. The garrison and population of Smyrna proved insufficient to supply materials for one of these monuments on his accustomed scale of hideous grandeur. But Timur was resolved not to leave the site of Smyrna without his wonted trophy; and he ordered that the supply of heads should be economized by placing alternate layers of mud between the rows of heads in the pyramid. In 1404 the conqueror rested for a short time from blood-shedding, and displayed his magnificence in his capital city of Samarkand, which he had not seen for seven years.


Medusa's Gaze: The Extraordinary Journey of the Tazza Farnese By Marina Belozerskaya

https://books.google.com/books?id=yk...page&q&f=false https://books.google.com/books?id=ykRpAgAAQBAJ&pg=PA88#v=onepage&q&f=false


And in Smyrna (modern Izmir) in 1402, having massacred all the citizens, Timur chopped off their heads and piled them into two enormous towers.


The History of the Knights Hospitallers of St. John of Jerusalem: Styled Afterwards, the Knights of Rhodes, and at Present, the Knights of Malta, Volume 2 By Vertot (abbé de)

https://books.google.com/books?id=3u...page&q&f=false https://books.google.com/books?id=3u9EAQAAMAAJ&pg=PA104#v=onepage&q&f=false


“The Musulmen forced them, sword in hand, to quit the “breaches that they defended, and made their way into “Smyrna, crying out victory, and praising God, to whom “they offered the heads of all their enemies, by way of “thanksgiving for their success. Very few of those “escaped who had thrown, themselves into the sea, and “were swimming to the ships that lay off, great numbers “of them being drowned in the attempt. After they “had put the people of Smyrna to the sword, they demol“ished the buildings both of the town and castle, and “threw the materials, the bricks, arms, and goods, into “the sea. “Some great ships, called caracas, came from certain “parts of Europe; these had two masts at least, and “were well provided with soldiers and arms on board, to “succour those of Smyrna. When they drew near the “port, and saw no marks either of the town or castle, “they were startled, and stopped their course. Timur “gave orders to throw the heads of some of the Christians “on board these ships, and the throwers of wildfire “having executed his orders, several heads fell into the “very ships. The seamen knowing the heads of their “comrades, tacked about and returned in a fright, alto“gether disappointed of their expectation.” This is Cherefeddin's relation of what passed at the siege of Smyrna.

05:38, 9 January 2016 (UTC)


Delhi Sultanate Dynasty Indian History AP World History http://apworldhistory101.com/history-of-india/delhi-sultanate/

The Sack of Damascus | History Today http://www.historytoday.com/richard-cavendish/sack-damascus

Tamerlane in Damascus http://www.jadaliyya.com/pages/index/9452/tamerlane-in-damascus

Shlama - Aleppo - BELIEVING IN ALEPPO http://www.shlama.be/shlama/content/view/3/4/

Biyokulule Online http://www.biyokulule.com/view_content.php?articleid=3804

Tamerlane http://www.silk-road.com/artl/timur.shtml

Tamerlane in Damascus http://www.jadaliyya.com/pages/index/9452/tamerlane-in-damascus

????? ???..???? ?????..?????! | ??? ????? http://syrianoor.net/article/1724

The Sack of Damascus | History Today http://www.historytoday.com/richard-cavendish/sack-damascus

Delhi Sultanate Dynasty Indian History AP World History http://apworldhistory101.com/history-of-india/delhi-sultanate/

religious opportunist

Tamerlane http://www.silk-road.com/artl/timur.shtml

Whatever the unlogged/anon IP wanted to do with this information remains a mystery ... 104.169.17.29 (talk) 03:37, 31 January 2017 (UTC)[reply]

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Superstitious statements need more direct sources

The article claims that the tomb contained an inscription about unleashing a conqueror worse than he on whomsoever unearths his grave. I can't find that in sources given. It also claims the dates of Operation Barbarossa and the Soviet victory in Stalingrad as being correlated to the date of exhumation and re-interment. Can we get some more direct, and hopefully online accessible sources? --IronMaidenRocks (talk) 09:12, 26 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Okay, after reading the archived source, it doesn't say where it got it's information from. For all we know, the 2013 article could have been taking the line directly from Wikipedia. Furthermore, the date of the exhumation and re-interment isn't give in the online sources. This almost has to be a untrue from any possible perspective. Are we really trying to lead readers to believe Timur supernaturally anticipated the rise of Adolf Hitler in 1405 and his own exhumation? --IronMaidenRocks (talk) 19:12, 9 May 2016 (UTC)[reply]
The Independent article is from 2006. Go back and check and you will see that no such information was given in the article in 2006. It's a story that's been around for a long time already, you can find sources about the supposed curse earlier than the article's existence, for example this 2001 Time magazine article - [1]. The article does not say that it is true, I have no idea what gives you the idea that it did. Even if the inscriptions do exist, it may simply be coincidence. The origin of the story appears to have come from a Russian cameramen who was there at the exhumation and later made a film about it - [2] Hzh (talk) 01:51, 21 May 2016 (UTC)[reply]
2006 article gives The Golden Road to Samarkand by Wilfred Blunt as source. I might see about getting it ordered from another library. Despite the article saying 'allegedly', it's falsifiable whether the excavation really took place on June 22nd, 1941, and whether the inscription speaks of awakening a conqueror. I'd rather see primary sources than newspapers from 60-70 years later making an exciting story. --IronMaidenRocks (talk) 12:23, 28 May 2016 (UTC)[reply]
"Falsifiable"? Did you mean to say "doubtful"? 104.169.17.29 (talk) 03:42, 31 January 2017 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment Whether real or not, mythology is a widely accepted part of history, and a component of various Empires and rulership (see Rome, Egypt, etc); one could arguably dismiss all religious history on Wikipedia if we become so contentious about it. That being said, I recall watching a number of documentaries and clips mentioning the same story, so it can't seem to be fabricated/vandalism. Whether one "believes" it or not, is an entirely different matter. I hope some users can find the appropriate citations and ensure that it isn't hastily removed from the article. For now, adequate tags such as [not specific enough to verify] or [citation needed] should be appropriate. These are meant to encourage editors in improving the article instead of wholesale deleting portions without consensus. DA1 (talk) 03:25, 10 June 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Semi-protected edit request on 16 July 2017

The section "Conquest of Persia" currently contains the following:

An eye-witness counted more than 28 towers constructed of about 1,500 heads each.[40] This has been described as a "systematic use of terror against towns...an integral element of Tamerlane's strategic element", which he viewed as preventing bloodshed by discouraging resistance. His massacres were selective and he spared the artistic and educated. This would later influence the next great Persian conqueror: Nader Shah.[39]

The page cited by footnote [39] contains no reference to Nader Shah. Instead, it deals exclusively with the use of terror by Timur. My suggestion is to place footnote 39 one sentence earlier, after "spared the artistic and educated," which it clearly supports. There may be support in the same source for the influence of Timur on Nader Shah but that particular page doesn't contain it.

Thanks for your time! 101.98.43.237 (talk) 02:00, 16 July 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Done jd22292 (Jalen D. Folf) (talk) 02:26, 16 July 2017 (UTC)[reply]

I believe that I may have found an error in this article.

Hello -

In Section 17.1 "Sons Of Timur" it shows "Khalil Sultan ibn Timur" as a son of Timur with Saray Mulk Khanum.

I believe that Khalil Sultan was the grandson of Timur. Khalil Sultan's father was Miran Shah ibn Timur.

As evidence:

I would submit Timur's family tree as cited in the following book: MLA format - Marozzi, Justin. Tamerlane, Sword of Islam, Conqueror of the World, Da Capo Press, 2004.

I would also point out that in the Wikipedia article on Saray Mulk Khanum, it says that she had no children with Timur.

Finally, I cannot find any credible mention of the existence of a person by the name of Khalil Sultan ibn Timur.

Thanks for your consideration, Virgil Fairchild, VFF0347 VFF0347 (talk) 19:05, 4 October 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Name

his real name is Taimur Beg. Due to being lame he was named Tiemur long RomanRace (talk) 13:57, 16 November 2017 (UTC)[reply]

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