Talk:Thousand Oaks shooting

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Category: Disasters in nightclubs

Hello,

This category (Disasters in nightclubs) was recently removed from the article, should this category be added back into the article or should it stay removed?
Thank you, --Vwanweb (talk) 12:31, 8 November 2018 (UTC)[reply]

A shooting is not a disaster. I suppose, if a building, or vessels or vehicles suffered major structural damage as a result of the attack, then it would have been pertinent to add that category. -Mardus /talk 13:19, 8 November 2018 (UTC)[reply]

According to wikipedia it is a Disaster. The paragraph Man-made disasters even says "War and deliberate attacks may also be put in this category. ". 194.39.218.10 (talk) 13:40, 8 November 2018 (UTC)[reply]

It's not structural collapse of any kind, or an event in which a vehicle or building is directly involved in the death of one or more persons. A disaster would be something like force majeure. -Mardus /talk 14:44, 8 November 2018 (UTC)[reply]

This article is in Category:Attacks on nightclubs, which is a subcat of Category:Disasters in nightclubs. Jim Michael (talk) 14:45, 8 November 2018 (UTC)[reply]

That's more specific all right. -Mardus /talk 14:57, 8 November 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Shooter description

Find it odd that I can not find a source that describes the shooter as other than a '29 year old male.' Not a single mention of race/ethnicity. I find this to be peculiar, has anyone else found any updated sources that describe the perpetrator? This one: https://www.foxnews.com/us/witnesses-describe-deadly-california-shooting seems to go out of its way to describe the shooter. - A Canadian Toker (talk) 15:01, 8 November 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Sorry, to NOT describe the shooter I meant.- A Canadian Toker (talk) 15:02, 8 November 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Can anyone confirm the age of the shooter? The article lists him as 28 and 29 and the sources for each support each age. It's a small difference, but it should probably be resolved and corrected. Danbert8 (talk) 17:33, 8 November 2018 (UTC)[reply]

>>This was broadcast live on television ABC7 (channel 7) from 11:20pm non-stop til next morning. IMHO, if you want news as it is happening, you need to watch TV or go on twitter.

SWP13 (talk) 18:17, 8 November 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Why hide terrorism?

Someone continues to remove link to Terrorism in the US despite there being THREE different 'anti gun' posts in the see also section. Any explanation for that? - A Canadian Toker (talk) 15:22, 8 November 2018 (UTC)[reply]

VERY Obvious whoever is doing it is an ANTI GUN crusader. Why so many ANTI GUN articles in the see also and NO LINK TO TERRORISM IN THE UNITED STATES? - A Canadian Toker (talk) 15:25, 8 November 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Terrorism is speculation, also opinions do not belong in Wikipedia articles IFixThings (talk) 15:39, 8 November 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Terrorism is a SPECULATIVE as the SHOOTING PART! What is your agenda? - A Canadian Toker (talk) 15:42, 8 November 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Stop accusing other editors of "hiding" terrorism or of having an agenda. We don't speculate terrorism into an article until it's established by the reliable sources. This shooting isn't even 24 hours old yet, so it will probably be awhile before those kinds of details are sorted out. Regards, AzureCitizen (talk) 15:48, 8 November 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Thank you, Azure IFixThings (talk) 16:16, 8 November 2018 (UTC)[reply]

2017 Las Vegas shooting

Why delete the DOCUMENTED LINK? It has been reported that some of the bar patrons present had survived the 2017 Las Vegas shooting concert shooting, it is not known whether any were injured in this incident.^[1]

WHAT ARE YOU TRYING TO HIDE? - A Canadian Toker (talk) 15:29, 8 November 2018 (UTC)[reply]

As of now, with very little information confirmed, it is best not to add unsubstantiated claims like this one. Wait for more information to come in. In addition, refrain from writing phrases like, "it has been reported" and "according to ABC News." Wikipedia is not a newspaper, and it is also not a place for your guesswork. KidAd (talk) 15:33, 8 November 2018 (UTC)[reply]

User:ACanadianToker, the Daily Mirror is not a WP:reliable source. If it gets mentions elsewhere then it can be included. At the moment, its just tabloid gossip. Gaia Octavia Agrippa ^Talk 15:38, 8 November 2018 (UTC)[reply]

How about https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation-now/2018/11/08/thousand-oaks-bar-shooting-some-victims-survived-las-vegas-attack/1928082002/ ? GOOD ENOUGH? - A Canadian Toker (talk) 15:39, 8 November 2018 (UTC)[reply]

I sure hope so! - A Canadian Toker (talk) 15:39, 8 November 2018 (UTC)[reply]

But then again this is a CURRENT EVENT PAGE ANYWAY RIGHT? - A Canadian Toker (talk) 15:40, 8 November 2018 (UTC) ARe you the one who keeps deleting reference to terrorism in the see also section? 15:40, 8 November 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Nothing to say? - A Canadian Toker (talk) 15:44, 8 November 2018 (UTC)[reply]

This still isn't a newspaper. Refrain from writing it like one. I will keep reverting your edits. KidAd (talk) 15:47, 8 November 2018 (UTC)[reply]

^ Davidson, Tom (8 November 2018). "Country music fans inside Borderline 'were Las Vegas massacre survivors'". mirror.

Illegal magazine?

Latest reports note that Long had an illegal extended magazine in his gun. I think this should be mentioned when referencing the firearm used, as it allowed him to shoot more people. Blueboar (talk) 16:00, 8 November 2018 (UTC)[reply]

DONE (Did it myself). Blueboar (talk) 16:31, 8 November 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Non-fatal injuries

Where are we getting the 25 from? The cited source says Between 10 and 12 people suffered injuries ... others with more minor wounds escaping, Is the 25 from 13 dead + 12 injured? I do realize that the source gets constantly updated. CNN says between 10 and 15. [1] WikiVirusC^(talk) 16:26, 8 November 2018 (UTC)[reply]

We also need to clarify how many were actual gun shot victims... I am seeing reports that some of the injuries were due to people getting hurt while fleeing (escaping out a window and being cut by glass, for example). Blueboar (talk) 16:43, 8 November 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Title

The title seems inadequate. Aren't there many "shootings in Thousand Oaks"? Joseph A. Spadaro (talk) 17:01, 8 November 2018 (UTC)[reply]

You mean WP:Notable shootings? Nil Einne (talk) 17:32, 8 November 2018 (UTC)[reply]

>>Yes. If you dig for info, you will find the lots of crimes in Ventura county, California. The officers who run into gun fire to save lives need to be appreciated...

Aug 2018 Gang stabbing arrest
Oct 10, 2018 Officer involved shooting.
Sept/Oct 2018 Inmate deaths
Ventua County Sheriff Dept list

News and sources

Hi Wikipedia's, Since this event takes place in southern California, please keep in mind of using local news sources. The links of inline citation/reference may break. See

ABC7 local news for Ventura County for all news related to the shooting. Lots of first account interviews with surviving people.
Ventura County Sheriff's Department Advisory on street closure for Nov 8, 2018 10am local time. Procession. They will transport the body of Sgt Ron Helus through the streets.
Whitehouse Lowers flag

Please note that newsreports outside of California are not first account. They are simply repeats what the local news and local reports.

I have added sources to External sources. Maybe someone can save the news to archive.org. SWP13 (talk) 17:26, 8 November 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Why is this not relevant enough for the front page?

This shooting killed more people than the Synagogue shooting. I'm just wondering, is it that Jews have more valuable lives than everyone else or something? It just seems odd to me. Alex of Canada (talk) 17:56, 8 November 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Alex of Canada, things don't appear on the front page immediately, as Wikipedia is not a news organization. Brad v 18:12, 8 November 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Alex of Canada Because Wikipedia is not a newspaper. Praxidicae (talk) 18:12, 8 November 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Alex of Canada, I think you should carefully re-read what you wrote and think about how it makes you look. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Jim Michael (talk • contribs) 18:40, November 8, 2018 (UTC)

was gunman present at Vegas shooting or not

Not sure how to read this sentence...

Molina, Brett (November 8, 2018). "Some Thousand Oaks victims survived mass shooting in Las Vegas, reports say" [Thousand Oaks bar shooting: Some victims survived Las Vegas attack]. USA Today. Some people who survived the Borderline Bar & Grill shooting that left 13 dead, including the gunman, also escaped the mass shooting at the Route 91 music festival in Las Vegas last year

Is this "some people .. including the gunman, also escaped" ? Or should I read this like "some people who survived the .. (shooting that left 13 dead, including the gunman), also escaped" ?

If it is the latter and not former then it seems like Molina might've been clearer by using brackets instead of a comma. Not sure what grammar rules apply here. I'm thinking it is the latter since the gunman was among the 13 dead, but does anyone understand what I mean about the word grouping? Ash Carol (talk) 20:01, 8 November 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Perpetrator Information

The perpetrator section should have the latest and most widely accepted/released information about the perpetrator. If there needs to be a summary of the investigation and report history, a new section should be made similar to the 2017 Las Vegas Shooting. Starting out this section with initial reports that may not be accurate is confusing when the correct details are listed further into the section. I attempted to remove the section and it was reverted, would it be better being moved into a new section?Danbert8 (talk) 20:04, 8 November 2018 (UTC)[reply]

[1] Davidson, Tom (8 November 2018). "Country music fans inside Borderline 'were Las Vegas massacre survivors'". mirror.

[1]