Talk:Drifting (motorsport)

Template:Friendly search suggestions

Diagram showing two drifting techniques

A diagram showing two different drifting techniques

Hi everybody, I created this diagram showing a car drifting using two different techinques: Lift-Off and Clutch-Kick which are two common ways to make a RWD car drifting. This diagram shows the path of the car in the turns, the weight-force transfers, the grip level of the rear tires during the drifting and how the driver handles the throttle, the brake and the clutch during the execution. Furthermore, this diagram has three focuses: the first one is about the smattering of "oversteer", the second shows what happens to a tire while the car is drifting and the last one is about the "pivot" caused by the transfer of weight force using Lift-off technique.

I hope you will appreciate it and I hope to be allowed to insert it in the article.

--Pietrocedone (talk) 19:05, 19 November 2015 (UTC)

New Heading

This person bellow does not know what they are talking about......may be just another grumpy old never wasa. Evan Burpen (talk) 00:36, 4 February 2017 (UTC)

Please note I've added a heading to inform readers that this article is absolute shit. If somebody with any sort of knowledge extending beyond Google-ing "drifting" would read through the article and remove the retarded shit (and for that matter, anybody with some knowledge of proper encyclopedic grammar) that would be great. And before you ask, I'm not fixing it myself because I just don't give a fuck about this subject, but can't stand to let an article this bad remain in this condition without saying something.

Is there a way to edit the main title to remove the 'motorsport' tag? Drifting is NOT motorsport. Billzilla (talk) 21:54, 2 September 2016 (UTC)

Origins of Drifting

As another commentator has stated, "drifting" as a driving technique was practiced long before the modern "sport" was created by the Japanese. My uncle taught me to drift back in the 1970s and he had learned from my grandfather who had been a bootleg moonshine runner during the 50s. I don't dispute that drifting as a sport was popularized in Japan but the guys who eventually invented NASCAR who were really the ones who first discovered and used drifting. Don't forget flat-track racing either, one big long drift... All those slippery dirt roads in the American SE were the proving ground for drifting. MRRnVA 17:56, 30 August 2007 (UTC)MRRnVA

And the Japanese were probably doing that even before the 50's, considering their entire country is mountainous and lack straight roads. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 159.53.46.144 (talk) 17:11, 18 September 2007 (UTC)

I got to this page because it was linked by the article on Tazio Nuvolari. Here is a quote

Nuvolari was one of the early proponents (if not the inventor, according to Enzo Ferrari) of the four-wheel drift technique. The technique was later utilised by drivers such as Stirling Moss.[10].

Does anyone have more info or a better source on the origins of drifting, or exactly what a 4 wheel drift is compared to what is described in the article (which seems more like what I would call a "power-slide")? I think various forms of "drifting" were used as a cornering technique by sports car and gran prix drivers long before it was a "sport" and from the Nuvolari article it seems that its origins may stretch back as early as the 1930s. Seems like the history section should maybe be expanded in some way and maybe there should be some sort of clarification about drifting as a race driving technique vs. drifting as a "sport". Or should that information be included in its own article? A quick search through articles on car handling, race driving, and so on doesn't turn up any mention of drifting, so maybe this is the appropriate place for such info?--LookoutforChris (talk) 04:30, 3 December 2009 (UTC)

Ok ive been reading this page, and it drive me fucking nuts when i hear about AWD (all wheel drive) drifting, THATS FUCKING POWER SLIDING. The art of drifting is breaking traction with the rear wheels powering over causing them to spin thus causing the car to go into a slide, maintaining that slide while using the accelerater to controll angle. the front wheels NEVER break traction. In an AWD if you try to power over all wheels will break traction. POWERSLIDE!.— Preceding unsigned comment added by 60.241.232.170 (talk • contribs) 14:50, 5 February 2012

This is Wikipedia. There are more wrong facts here than you will know in your lifetime, and you'll kill youself if you have a heart attack every time you see a wrong fact. Just find a source, cite it, and there you go. Fixed! Nothing to get mad about. --Dennis Bratland (talk) 23:06, 5 February 2012 (UTC)

Drawbacks?

Could somebody speak to the drawbacks of drifting? I don't know much about racing, but I got the impression that many professional drivers don't drift due to the loss of speed or control.

I read this at club4ag.com:

"With a clean lap of the track without passing, a smooth neutral cornering is the fastest way around. However, a driver can rarely get past another car by tracing the same line and obeying the laws of braking points...A drifting car is losing time because the traction and lateral grip is lower on a tire with skidding going on.

There are those who argue that "grip" style driving is the fastest way...that drifting is a slow way aroud corners... In theory this is very true... But, in multiple car competitions, the more options the driver has in terms of his line, braking points and skill, the more chances he'll have to pass the leading car that's blocking his "proper line."

In typical paved-course racing situations with modern tires, there is no usual need to "drift" per se, though tires are at their maximum grip when they are sliding just slightly (4-10 degrees or so). A car slideing at an angle of 4 degrees would not appear to be "drifting" to an outside observer. Sliding beyond this angle, producing a visible and showy drift, will decrease the maximum lateral acceleration and hence the maximum cornering speed will go down.

The club4ag article is correct in that a slide might be used to block a pass or otherwise put a driver in a better position with respect to other cars in a wheel to wheel race, but it's not common.

Racing on loose surfaces like dirt, gravel, or snow, or on poor tires, often involves "drifting" to set the car up for a higher corner exit speed. This sacrifices a little corner speed for a lot of straight line speed between corners. It's only worth the tradeoff in situations like this where corner speed is already very low.

This article is about the sport of drifting, where the goal is just to drift skillfully, not necessarily to go as fast as possible. — AKADriver ☎ 21:35, 22 June 2006 (UTC)

Lets see, accidentally topping off spectators is one down side (ever see Saudi drifting?)... 24.168.64.206 23:22, 19 April 2007 (UTC)

Drifting is indeed slower than grip turning, there are some uses for it, like already stated. It all depends on the actual turn. Kalga-han

Again, whatever drawbacks there are in racing are sort of outside the scope of the article - the article describes the sport of drifting, and there are (obviously) no disadvantages to drifting at a drifting event.

As far as the Saudi stuff goes, that also is more stunting than drifting since the goal is not skillful driving, but rather individual feats of recklessness. Legal drift sanctioning bodies are subject to the same liability to provide for the safety of their fans as any racing asanctioning body. — AKADriver ☎ 18:08, 28 June 2007 (UTC)

I remember, when I was in elementary school in the '60s, checking out a book on Racing from my local library. As it turns out, the author was a child star but I can't remember who. (I think it was Tony Dow, who played Wally Cleaver on 'Leave it to Beaver' but I'm not sure.)

In that book, I remember the description of drifting and how it was slower going through the turn, but what really mattered was how fast you were going when you came out of the turn, and that's why driftng was important.

But if a child star turned author in the '60s was writing about drifting, why does this page talk about it like it's something new and something the Japanese invented? - TCav 01:45, 8 July 2007 (UTC)

As the intro states, this article is primarily about the sport of drifting, in which the point is to drift in a showy fashion and be scored by judges, not to get around a race track as quickly as possible. The sport of drifting is new and is something the Japanese invented. TomTheHand 18:47, 16 July 2007 (UTC)

I just popped onto this talk page with the intent to beef about the same thing. Where do these young punks get off claiming to have 'invented' drifting? (The intro doesn't make the point clear at all). What I do know, first hand (therefore not suitable for inclusion in the main article), is that we were doing it in the early sixties, when the same techniques were taught to me by people who'd been doing it throughout the fifties, and probably before. I also question the claim that LSD is required, and the implication that a manual transmission is also necessary. We were using the same techniques on dirt and sometimes, on asphalt (if you were good enough at it), with non-locking and open gear rear-ends, and sometimes even with automatic transmissions. In fact, it's actually easier to break your assend loose when you have only one driven wheel, although it is somewhat more difficult to pull out of such a slide. Furthermore, and apparently overlooked in the article, is the technique we called the 4-wheel drift, in which the entire vehicle is thrown into a (barely) controlled all-wheel slide through a big wide turn, then brought back under full control upon coming out. All I've seen here is discussion of what we called a 2-wheel drift, or power slide, & heel&toe-ing through a tight set of hairpins (which we called 'heel&toe-ing'). The crappy little punk-ass cheat using the handbrake was something we did just for fun when driving our girlfriends' VW Bugs, as there wasn't much else you could do to make driving one even remotely interesting. If the Japanese want to claim credit for inventing that little trick, they can have it as far as I'm concerned! 75.51.124.212 (talk) 02:58, 2 January 2009 (UTC)

This is a straightforward case of semantic change. The term drift, short for four-wheel drift, originally meant to corner with approximately the same slip angle at the front as at the rear. The term came from traditional auto racing, where the four-wheel drift is regarded as the fastest way to corner a racing car (and, yes, I know that's a simplified explanation). Perhaps because most drivers are accustomed to understeer, a true four-wheel drift can feel like oversteer. So, over time, the term drift picked up the connotation of oversteering.

The term sliding would probably have been a better choice for the name of the sport we call drifting, since the sport is based on power slides. But that ship has sailed.--Tedd (talk) 00:24, 12 June 2010 (UTC)

Other observations

Just general tidying up. Any objections to the changes suggested below:

"In the United Kingdom, one of its first drift contests was hosted in 2002 by the OPT Drift Club"

I would rephrase this: "One of the first drifting competitions in Europe was hosted in 2002 by the OPT drift club at Turweston..."

"Sometimes the judges cannot agree, or cannot decide, or the crowd violently disagrees with the judge's decision. "

Colourful description, rather than factual. I have yet to see a D1 crowd resort to violence! How about: "Or a crowd vocally disagrees with the judge's decision"

"In such cases more passes may be run until a winner is produced."

Add "In the event of apparently close or tied runs, crowds often demonstrate their desire for another run with chants of 'one more time'"

"Drifting techniques"

Surely this should be 'Techniques for inducing drift'?

"or Scandinavian flick[9]"

This is not what a Scandinavian flick is (At least as I've always been taught!) and reference to it here needs to be removed. A Scandanavian flick does involve angling the vehicle away from the apex, but there the similarity ends, as during a Scandinavian flick, one then locks the wheels and engages the clutch to maintain a straight slide, steers into the apex and then releases the brakes and clutch to cause an immediate and sharp turn.

"A proper mechanical limited slip differential (LSD) is essential for drifting. Open diffs and viscous diffs cannot be controlled during a sustained slide."

Should read "is almost essentail" as drifting is not technically impossible without a mechanical LSD: a good viscous LSD works, but is simply inferior.

"Because of the large sideways forces, the driver must be retained firmly by a bucket seat, and preferably five point harness."

Again: It's not essential per se. Should read "Because of the large sideways forces, drivers find it preferable to be retained firmly by a bucket seat, and five point harness."

Also add to the paragraph: "Many drivers favour additional gauges to monitor such things as boost levels, oil, intake and coolant temperatures"

Addition to the 'body' section:

"Due to the nature of the hobby, drift cars are typically involved in many minor accidents. Thus, those involved with the sport tend to avoid expensive or easily damaged body kits and custom paintwork. Typically drift cars will show signs of body damage: dents, cracked bumpers and applications of duct tape."

"Tires" "...On the back, hard-compound tires are used, quite often second-hand ones tend to end up in a cloud of smoke."

Colourful rather than factual. Just needs formalising.

"More advanced drivers require the most grip possible from all 4 tires."

Add: "...so as to retain control adequately during high speed drifts."

"However these tires are generally not available to the public, and only to drift teams at the moment."

Add: "...furthermore, they are not permitted in many competitions, as they are seen as giving an unfair advantage to teams with the funding to utilise them, as they are currently too expensive to be used by the amateur competitor."

And for the preservation of our sanity, can we either cite or remove the comments about the Civic winning the Willow Springs competition!

Siranui 14:47, 22 January 2007 (UTC)Siranui

I cited the bottom bit as I wrote that from a magazine I still own and made changes to the top bit. Feel free to make changes as you know what the Edit button is for. Willirennen 00:16, 23 January 2007 (UTC)

I would prefer the suggestions to be reviewed prior to me making changes to the main page. If nobody has a problem, I'll then go make them. Additionally, I really don't feel that a tuning magazine that you own is not a suitable source for Wikipedia. Firstly, it is a secondary source itself, and the only verification of it that we have is yourself (making it a tertiary source and certainly not suitable for encyclopedic inclusion). We have no way to verify the source independantly, and there seems no other reference to it anywhere on the Net (except references stemming from this Wiki entry). I'm not saying that you are a liar, merely pointing out that it would be amazingly bad form for the article to contain such intangable information: It would be the equivelant of dictionaries including the word 'qrhweongfksd' based on the fact that I tell them that I have a letter from the Queen of England containing the word. Additionally, the source itself is very questionable as regards reliability: tuning magazines habitually fail to get their facts straight. Maybe if we could get some more details from Option? 87.112.83.224 11:56, 27 January 2007 (UTC)Siranui

The preferred source for Wikipedia is a secondary source. The reference of a secondary source in the article by an editor does not make it a tertiary source. A tuning magazine he owns is the perfect type of source for this article, if he's referenced it correctly. There are not many "scientists, scholars and researchers" working in the field of drifting, so the best we've got is magazines, books, & DVDs. By your interpretation, none of the other references on this page are valid, and might as well be deleted. A failed google search does not invalidate a reference. Have a read of WP:V and WP:RS. Your dictionary example would come under WP:PN. If you think it's an extraordinary claim (a FF(?) Civic does seem odd) that requires extraordinary proof, that's quite another matter, but there's nothing wrong with the source in and of itself. However if Willirennen put a scan of the Civic victory on photobucket I'd certainly be interested to see it. RB30DE 14:20, 27 January 2007 (UTC)

A couple of months later, and the Source has not been confirmed by anyone. Also, the term 'won the race' I feel also undermines the validity of the comment, seeing how drifting is not a race. And of course, it is an extraordinary claim that I think needs verification from multiple sources. We are discussing a _{Subscript text}large motorsport event here, that it seems only one magazine covered, and nobody actually attended! I personally don't credit tuning magazines as being an acceptable source in isolation (Have you ever read Max Power... their adherance to facts is negligable). I'll give it a week, then delete the relevant section, unless anyone can come up with a good reason not to. siranui 13:00, 26 March 2007 (UTC)

I added all but one as I am not that great at that form of editing from the above. Willirennen 14:09, 24 January 2007 (UTC)

Yeah pretty reasonable changes, an improvement. Although - "Drifting techniques" Surely this should be Techniques for inducing drift? - I don't understand this change. I think the original is preferable - shorter, direct. The new version sounds like management speak to me. YMMV. RB30DE 22:13, 26 January 2007 (UTC)

Simply because they are not drifting techniques. They are simply a list of methods for starting a drift, so it is very incorrect to label them as drifting techniques. 'Drifting technique' consists of pilling on opposite lock and balancing the controls of the vehicle in a manner that maintains the drift, the angle and keeps you going in the right direction! 87.112.83.224 11:56, 27 January 2007 (UTC)Siranui

Seems pedantic. I don't think it's reasonable to make such a sharp distinction between the beginning and the middle of an action. They are drifting techniques. I like how you removed the absolutes from other paragraphs, but this seems to be in contrast to that. Oh well. RB30DE 14:20, 27 January 2007 (UTC)

I added the link DriftBasic.com for a very important reason. All the links are valid, but organizations such as D1 or Formula D are for the pros. What about the amature drifters out there that make up the core of the drifting scene? Drift Basic is constantly updating info and linking to actual events that are happening nationwide. I think its important to have a link to a site that informs me about events in my area so I have a source to know about events. The first time I read the drifting article, I was like, thats great, but how can I try this for myself and where are events and gatherings where I live? RearWheelPower 05:20, 28 March 2007 (UTC)

Wikipedia isn't a clearinghouse of links. There are hundreds of similar websites for amateur drifting events. Also, no offense, but this being your only edit reeks of pimping your own website. — AKADriver ☎ 13:02, 28 March 2007 (UTC)

I understand that wikipedia isnt a link portal, but dont you see my point? Its one of my friends sites and I think it has the right to be there. If its not Drift Basic, at least let it be another similar site that has news on amature events. People coming to this are most likely US or Canadians. Why would they care about Prodrift Ireland or French drifting? Those are the types of links that should be removed. RearWheelPower 14:49, 28 March 2007 (UTC)

I don't see your point. "I think its important to have a link to a site that informs me about events in my area so I have a source to know about events." - I think that's totally irrelevant to wikipedia. Also WP:EL "...You should avoid linking to a website that you own, maintain or represent..." I agree that if a link is not in English, it should probably be removed. RB30DE 22:22, 31 March 2007 (UTC)

Let me sum it up like this: If I was new to the concept of drifting, I would google it, and this article would be the second link I see. After reading it, if I liked the concept I would want to try to do it as well (start drifting). Well, looking at the links here, I would find only proffesional events. If links to websites such as driftlive, driftbasic, drift411, etc were added, I would be able to find out about drifting events that I actually could drift in. "Also WP:EL "...You should avoid linking to a website that you own, maintain or represent..."" - Again, It just a friends site, and I dont represent it. I just added it because I think its the best of the ones I know. Like I said: "If its not Drift Basic, at least let it be another similar site that has news on amature events." RearWheelPower 04:33, 1 April 2007 (UTC)

Diagram

This page could do with a digram showing force and velocity vectors. —Ben FrantzDale 19:24, 3 April 2007 (UTC)

I'm not a specialist in drifting, but what about this one from Opposite lock ? Yggdras (talk) 08:22, 7 June 2008 (UTC)

FIA Sanctioning

Surely the reason that it's not FIA sanctioned because it isn't a form of racing? All other ones are. Duke toaster 10:34, 7 July 2007 (UTC)

Books

I have removed the section on books since there does not appear to be any criteria for notability, and I could actually find little reliable information about the books. If someone would be able to show notability it would be nice. --Oni Ookami Alfador^Talk|@ 15:37, 6 August 2007 (UTC)

Saudi Arabian Drifting

Right now there are a bunch of videos on YouTube showing what I guess is called "arab drifting." It appear to be exclusively FWD family sedans holding ridiculous drift angles on straight roads and weaving through traffic. I wouldn't believe it if I hadn't seen it myself. I was wondering if anyone had any sources on this particular type of drifting so it could be added to the article. --Daniel J. Leivick 23:59, 16 August 2007 (UTC)

First, it would be hard pressed to call that drifting simply because they are FWD. FWD can't hold the adequate slip angle for a drift. Second, there are no sources for it, just a bunch of nonsense youtube videos. Third, why make a laundry list of every country that has people who drift? "Holding rediculoud angles on roads and weaving through traffic" sounds more like douchebaggery to me than actual drifting. I can weave in and out of cars too--Oni Ookami Alfador^Talk|@ 12:36, 17 August 2007 (UTC)

As I noted above, it's stunting, not drifting. Those videos show single feats of recklessness, not an exhibition of driving skill or a racing maneuver. — AKADriver ☎ 17:19, 17 August 2007 (UTC)

Well it is obvious that Oni Ookami Alfador hasn't seen the videos as they do hold slip angles in FWD cars that are in some case greater then traditional drifters in RWD vehicles. Of course I would be opposed to a list of drifting style in every country, but this is a particular cultural phenomenon distinct from that of traditional Japanese drifting. Whether it is good or bad, reckless or safe is secondary, Touge started out reckless and really became an international sport and frankly while the guys in these Arab drift videos are clearly nuts I would be hesitant to dismiss their skill. In any case if sources don't exist then it can't be added to the article, but I was curious if anyone knew more about it then I did. --Daniel J. Leivick 18:26, 17 August 2007 (UTC)

I have seen the videos, and I was singularly unmoved by them. Most of them are just the result of roads with grip-conditions due to the environmental situation and some fishtailing on the drivers' part.--Oni Ookami Alfador^Talk|@ 19:18, 17 August 2007 (UTC)

Regardless of that, it IS drifting. It is too narrow-minded to simply say "FWD... drift? What?" Any car can spin, a semi-truck, a minivan, even a 747 aircraft. If it has wheels, can move and turn, it can drift. 71.252.155.128 (talk) 02:07, 5 August 2008 (UTC)

Regardless of that. My grandma can slide in her kitchen when the floor is still wet after she washed it, does it make her a drifter? I doubt, Drifting is a motorsport that has its own rules and every random slides for any reason isn't a drift as defined by the motorsport called Drifting. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.211.210.232 (talk) 22:08, 2 February 2010 (UTC)

Japan WikiProject Assessment

A nice long and detailed article. I do wish that the sport's influence on (and appearance in) popular culture/media were described more at length in paragraph form, rather than as simply a list of media in which it appears. This is a major theme/subject in anime and other forms of popular media these days - surely there is something to be said about this influence and popularity as a whole. LordAmeth 13:49, 6 November 2007 (UTC)

The other way drifting was born.

In Japan, there is a lot of mountains. In fact about 75% of Japan's land is covered in mountains. So since the street racers were getting in huge trouble for racing in the city streets, they fleed to the mountains, or known as Touge's, to race. Since the mountain roads were very small and had tight corners, they had to find a new way to race. Thus drifting was born! They found different techniques to drift around the tight corners, most likely borrowing ideas from rally. In conclusion, there maybe other forms of drifting, but I think the sport drifting as we know of today (D1GP) was created by the street racers of Japan in the early 1970's.Leokun7 (talk) 00:29, 21 November 2007 (UTC)

Southern California

The current text re Southern California is:

"Southern California has embraced Drifting, and has been a forefront for the drift movement. It has many similar geological features as Japan, from industrial warehouse, many freeway on/off ramps, to shipping docks, and lastly various touge. The grass-root enthusiasts can be seen on a daily basis and are growing exponentially as well as notice from local law enforcement. It wont be long before we see creative response such as the high-grip patches and speed bumps on notorious drift spots."

This doesn't make much sense, but I don't know enough about the facts to correct it. Can someone who knows about it convert this into meaningful English?

80.229.220.14 (talk) 03:15, 22 November 2008 (UTC)

 /translation

The cops in the Land of Fruits and Nuts are starting to crack down on those idjits who want to play their stoopit games on public streets and/or in traffic, endangering the lives of reasonable drivers with their hare-brained antics! 75.51.124.212 (talk) 03:17, 2 January 2009 (UTC)

Japanese bias?

Drifting emerged from the Scandinavian rally racing scene, which is why all manouvres used in drifting have a 'scandinavian flick', or 'elchtest' style to them. This article is massively POV due to the popularity of 'drifting' that emerged from Tokyo Drift. Can someone NPOV clean this crap up please? A lot of it is even written in first person, it's possibly the worst article I've read here. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 122.107.14.204 (talk) 11:27, 29 January 2009 (UTC)

WP:BOLD, WP:RS, WP:V. -- 李博杰  | —Talk contribs email 06:48, 21 August 2009 (UTC)

I agree the article is poorly written, but drifting did not emerge from rallying. Scandinavian flick is merely a technique that can be used in drifting. It's more suited to gravel roads, and drifting is predominantly on tarmac roads. I don't think the Japanese bias is unwarranted - the sport developed in Japan long before Tokyo Drift (I'm assuming you're referring to the movie) and the rest of the world embraced it. Drifting is about the showmanship of two cars competing on a short stretch; ralling is about a longer stage with one car on it, against the clock, and the art of drifting itself is not a part of the scoring or raison d'etre of rallying. Motorracer (talk) 04:02, 22 August 2009 (UTC)

Edit coming soon

If someone could edit the "Techniques" section soon so it is no longer a how-to guide (see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:NOTHOWTO) that would be great... if someone else doesn't do it I will get to it eventually. Alumarine (talk) 00:30, 16 June 2009 (UTC)

Moved a lot of stuff to Wikiversity and deleted irrelevant links. Motorracer (talk) 02:00, 30 January 2010 (UTC)

Weather?

This can be done at much, much lower speeds by utilizing hydroplaning as the main enabling agent by which the car loses grip with the road. A friend of a friend reports that the handbrake technique can be used in rainy weather to do an extremely tight u-turn with a FWD vehicle. Zaphraud (talk) 05:52, 24 September 2009 (UTC)

suspension section

the author(s) of this excerpt does not make it clear how this is relates to suspension. it is written very poorly and i consider it unnecessary and pointless until it is revised or completely rewritten. thus i will delete it entirely unless someone disagrees in which case if you feel it belongs back on the article you are more than welcome to paste it back but i implore such action be taken in conjunction with a major revision. thanks

"One of the most important dynamics that a properly tuned professional drift car will have is a high amount of 'dig' which is how much acceleration the drift car has coming out the apex of a corner while keeping the rear wheel speed much greater than that of the actual vehicle's positional speed. A high amount of dig will allow the car to spin its tires and maximize the amount of smoke, engine speed, and spectator/judge impact, while also maximizing the vehicles positional speed through a course. With all other variables held constant, a vehicle with more dig will pull away from a vehicle with less dig when the two are engaged in tandem competition.

Another important dynamic that drift cars look to increase is the rear tires' 'bite'. bite is how quickly the vehicle's rear tires regain traction after the throttle is closed and/or after the hand brake is released. A high amount of bite will allow the vehicle to change it's direction at a much higher rate, and thus increase the amount of snapiness and impact to both the judges and the spectators. It also will allow, in many cases, a much later apex on a drift course. A vehicle with a high amount of 'bite' can transition at a later time than a vehicle without. With all other variables held constant, a vehicle with less bite will not be able to follow a vehicle with a higher amount of bite without changing the driving line, losing points in tandem competition."

--Hhn2002 (talk) 08:07, 25 October 2009 (UTC)

steering section

I've made the following changes to the steering section to be more clear and correct.

from:

Increased steering angle often requires other modifications as at some point the tire or wheel will come in contact with other suspension pieces or the inner/outer fenders.

to:

In extreme cases increasing the steering angle may come to a point where the tire or wheel comes into contact with other suspension pieces or the inner/outer fenders; in which case additional modifications are required if such contacts are to be avoided.

--Hhn2002 (talk) 08:07, 25 October 2009 (UTC)

/* Drifting in games */

This is degenerating into list form and as such, is turning into a trivia section. Triona (talk) 22:22, 15 August 2010 (UTC)

/* Suspension */

Added to and reworded part of the Suspension section as it sounded rather informal. Will contiue to tidy this page. --MrWonton (talk) 12:28, 3 June 2011 (UTC)

Incorrect Definition of "Drifting"

I’m afraid the first paragraph in the article is confusing and is basically incorrect. The first sentence is partially correct in that it correctly describes what most people these days think of as “drifting”. But it is also incorrect in that that is not the true and original meaning of drifting as originally used in racing. As for the second sentence the first half kind of explains the correct meaning of a true drift but the second half of the sentence is once again referring to the current and incorrect definition of a drift. It makes it sound as if it’s talking about the same thing when it’s actually referring to two different things. To avoid some of this confusion it should probably be pointed out that what we call “drifting” today has absolutely nothing to do with the original meaning of the word as it applies to racing. The term was most commonly used in Formula One racing in the 70’s to describe a condition in which the car would seemingly steer itself through a turn due to the high slip angles of the rear tires. Drifting does not involve a loss of traction in either the front or rear tires though. To understand how this is possible you have to understand slip angles. A slip angle is the difference in angle between the direction the tire is pointing and the direction the car is actually traveling while still maintaining 100% traction (any angle difference caused by sliding is NOT a slip angle). This difference occurs because the tread is distorted by cornering forces as it passes through the contact patch, and of course the maximum slip angle for a tire occurs at the point just before the tire looses its grip on the road. Unfortunately the concept is virtually impossible to explain without an illustration, but basically because the rubber of a tire is flexible the car can be headed in a slightly different direction than the tires are pointed even while those tires are maintaining 100% traction and are not sliding at all. Anyway, as I said before, in Formula One cars back in the 70’s the rear tires operated at much higher slip angles than the front tires, which allowed drivers to actually go through the last 3/4 of certain turns with the front wheels pointed straight ahead. Basically the higher rear slip angles were, in effect, steering the car from the rear. By the way, you cannot do with ANY street car and not even with most race cars. Only the rear tires of old F1 cars operated at large enough slip angles to truly drift. So this is the true meaning of the term drifting. Unfortunately though the general public eventually started confusing the meaning of the term and took it to mean a “power slide” or “fishtailing”, which are basically layman’s terms for sliding a car around corners in an extreme over steer attitude. It should also be pointed out that fishtailing around turns, or “drifting” as we now mistakenly refer to it, is NOT and never has been the fastest way to get around a paved racecourse. A dirt track is a different story of course and on such courses you must employ heavy over steer to get fast lap times - or to outrun the law on dirt roads if you were a 1930’s bootlegger. On the pavement however this kind of so called “drifting” is purely about exhibitionism and I have never considered it to be a real motor sport. It is lots of fun of course. In fact I started doing it for fun back in the 70’s when I was only 16 years old and I was probably one of the best in the country at it at the time. But I was not just doing it for fun. I did it because I thought I wanted to get into stunt driving and so I taught myself all the stunts they do in the movies. But then when I got more serious about racing I realized that I would have to stop driving around corners like I was in a Hollywood chase scene if I ever wanted to win any races. As for Kunimitsu Takehashi all I can say is, if he won a lot of races it was in spite of his “drifting” and not because of it. Of course I’ll admit there are certain types of turns on very tight courses where, with certain types of cars, you might possibly be able to “drift” through it faster than you might otherwise driving conventionally. In fact back in the 70’s I proved that I could get through a slalom course faster than drivers and cars that would otherwise have edged me out on a regular racecourse at the time. I did this by getting completely sideways around every pylon and then doing a 180-power slide around the last pylon to turn around for the return run through. The other drivers were just scratching their heads in disbelief trying to figure out how I had beaten them with such a sloppy and showy “racing” technique. That was a rare exception to the rule however and I can’t think of any racecourse these days in which a modern race car on modern racing tires could “drift” around the course and end up winning a race or even placing. In fact when people come to me and express an interest in “drifting” I always tell them to take up some kind of dirt track racing instead, such as closed course rally. That way they get the fun of “drifting” and the fun of REAL racing at the same time since they will have to power slide around every corner in order to get a fast lap time. Anyway the point of all this is that the term drifting has been misused to mean, “over steer cornering” or “fishtailing” or “power sliding”, and none of these are what it actually means. Actually “power sliding” is probably the most apt description of modern so called “drifting”, as excess power is always applied in order to induce an extreme over steer attitude in the car while in turns (in racing, particularly on dirt, power is used to control the over steer, but rarely to induce it). Although I guess one could argue that when enough of the population misuses a word for a long enough period of time that the wrong meaning eventually become the correct meaning. Still a good Wikipedia page should explain the true and original meanings of the term. And judging from the comments on here people are very confused about this subject. Slobeachboy (talk) 07:50, 15 October 2012 (UTC)

About usefullness of the drift

The article is named Drifting (motorsport). But it doesn't seem like “it's about the sport discipline”. It seems like it's about “drifting as related to motorsport”. The article doesn't show the place of drifting in the outside picture of racing and driving. And concentrates only on its details. And there's no other article, or is there?, that would describe that. So it should be either redirected or included in all the information how and if it is useful on a race at all.

Then again, in “in the media” they example the cartoon “Initial d”, which is assumably just “about drifting”. But this cartoon is not about drifting as discipline. It of course just plunges into overall use of it in the races and doesn't either prove is it even beneficial to slide turns on asphalt. And other games: they worship turn-sliding for general racing.

These thoughts about it's usable only mostly in mud or snow, are worthy need for the main article. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 37.190.36.158 (talk) 01:30, 1 May 2015 (UTC)

External links modified

Hello fellow Wikipedians,

I have just modified 3 external links on Drifting (motorsport). Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:

• Corrected formatting/usage for http://citeseerx.ist.psu.edu/viewdoc/download?doi=10.1.1.103.9227&rep=rep1&type=pdf
• Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20110726073449/http://www.hpieurope.com/tv13/?channel=9&src=wikipedia to http://www.hpieurope.com/tv13/?channel=9&src=wikipedia
• Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20110726073454/http://www.hpieurope.com/walk.php?lang=en&id=19 to http://www.hpieurope.com/walk.php?lang=en&id=19

When you have finished reviewing my changes, please set the checked parameter below to true or failed to let others know (documentation at {{Sourcecheck}}).

This message was posted before February 2018. After February 2018, "External links modified" talk page sections are no longer generated or monitored by InternetArchiveBot. No special action is required regarding these talk page notices, other than regular verification using the archive tool instructions below. Editors have permission to delete these "External links modified" talk page sections if they want to de-clutter talk pages, but see the RfC before doing mass systematic removals. This message is updated dynamically through the template {{source check}} (last update: 5 June 2024).

• If you have discovered URLs which were erroneously considered dead by the bot, you can report them with this tool.
• If you found an error with any archives or the URLs themselves, you can fix them with this tool.

Cheers.—InternetArchiveBot (Report bug) 00:29, 17 December 2016 (UTC)

File:King of Europe Round 3 Lydden Hill 2014 (14356011899).jpg to appear as POTD soon

Hello! This is a note to let the editors of this article know that File:King of Europe Round 3 Lydden Hill 2014 (14356011899).jpg will be appearing as picture of the day on March 29, 2017. You can view and edit the POTD blurb at Template:POTD/2017-03-29. If this article needs any attention or maintenance, it would be preferable if that could be done before its appearance on the Main Page. — Chris Woodrich (talk) 05:06, 16 March 2017 (UTC)

Picture of the day

Drifting is a driving technique where the driver intentionally oversteers, causing loss of traction in the rear wheels or all tires, while maintaining control for the entirety of a corner. It is caused when the rear slip angle is greater than the front slip angle, to such an extent that often the front wheels are pointing in the opposite direction to the turn. As a motoring discipline, drifting competitions were first popularized in 1970s Japan. Today they are held worldwide and judged according to speed, angle, showmanship, and line taken through a corner or set of corners.Photograph: Rowan Harrison

External links modified

Hello fellow Wikipedians,

I have just modified 2 external links on Drifting (motorsport). Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:

• Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20140715202037/http://trackbattle.com.au/adgp/events/judging/ to http://trackbattle.com.au/adgp/events/judging/
• Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20110724194927/http://www.tone.co.nz/technology-news-4900/drift-legends-v2-drifting-game-released-on-itunes to http://www.tone.co.nz/technology-news-4900/drift-legends-v2-drifting-game-released-on-itunes

When you have finished reviewing my changes, you may follow the instructions on the template below to fix any issues with the URLs.

This message was posted before February 2018. After February 2018, "External links modified" talk page sections are no longer generated or monitored by InternetArchiveBot. No special action is required regarding these talk page notices, other than regular verification using the archive tool instructions below. Editors have permission to delete these "External links modified" talk page sections if they want to de-clutter talk pages, but see the RfC before doing mass systematic removals. This message is updated dynamically through the template {{source check}} (last update: 5 June 2024).

• If you have discovered URLs which were erroneously considered dead by the bot, you can report them with this tool.
• If you found an error with any archives or the URLs themselves, you can fix them with this tool.

Cheers.—InternetArchiveBot (Report bug) 03:06, 14 September 2017 (UTC)

Citations

Numerous citations added without evidence of bad faith, but too many:

Anarchangel (talk) 07:05, 16 December 2017 (UTC)

References

Birth of drifting

The article says "The famous motorcyclist turned driver, Kunimitsu Takahashi, was the foremost creator of drifting techniques in the 1970s", notice this guy started his career in 1977. This statement is total nosense, drifting techniques were hugely popular in European rallies by that time, see https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JzsSwamSDrA 0:55, 1:15 ...

Look at an excellent display of drifting in Montecarlo 1973 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wS7zQVlu_cI specially at 12:00 --Bentaguayre (talk) 22:12, 6 September 2018 (UTC)

4WD vs RWD vs FWD drifting

Somebody who is informed should cover differences between those. Method of causing the drift in each of those scenarios. 213.149.62.151 (talk) 02:00, 13 November 2018 (UTC)

Difference between Drifting and Powersliding?

There are two main ways to keep a car in a controlled slide - drifting and powersliding.

There is a misconception that drifting is the same as power sliding or fishtailing.

to make sliding turn / to slide a turn / to turn-slide vs to drift a turn. 213.149.62.151 (talk) 02:12, 13 November 2018 (UTC)

Please rephrase this as a suggestion for article improvement. see help:talk pages, and wp:talk page guidelines. Using this page as a chat room should be avoided - see wp:NOTFORUM. Thank you Jim1138 talk 00:02, 14 November 2018 (UTC)

References

4 wheel drift and 2 wheel drift

• 2 wheel drift with a car.

• 4 wheel drift with a car aka all wheel drift

not talking about using a 4WD vehicle to drift. All (car) drifts are 4 wheel drifts to some extent. Ross Bentley, author of Speed Secrets also mentioned this in his book. Fangio was also known to perform this 4 wheel drift. Essentially, both front wheels and back wheels are just slightly over the tip of their grip limits. You "drift", but you don't actually counter steer. There's also minimal to no "smoke".
(What are) Conditions: weight transfer, use the weight of the car+brakes and then a little bit of opposite lock, timing, smoothness, and the balance of the car, car with low grip, about balancing the car throughout the entire turn, car with natural understeer and plenty of power, have to set the steering just right so that you don't have to move it again until you start to unwind. Not moving the steering allows the cars weight to "set" and it lets you steer with the throttle and brake more. Then you have to be gentle enough so that the throttle aids in the 4 wheel drift instead of causing understeer or in more extreme cases oversteer??? 213.149.62.151 (talk) 23:19, 13 November 2018 (UTC)

Drifting Motorbike

How does it differ from car drifting? How(/When (situation, type of ground, rain)) usable, effective, practical it is?? Can all types of motorbikes drift?

• Drift Gymkhana
• Speedway

213.149.62.151 (talk) 23:22, 13 November 2018 (UTC)

Slip Angle and Drifting

The reason old school drivers slid more is: the optimum slip angle for older tires was much higher.

The optimum slip angle is where you generate the most friction. 213.149.62.151 (talk) 23:23, 13 November 2018 (UTC)

Reverse Entry Drifting and Reverse Drifting

The former is AKA Backwards Entry Drift. This is done in forward gears.

Sometimes is (erroneously) shortened to Reverse Drifting although (/because) there is Reverse Drifting as in Drifting-in-Reverse-Gear or Drifting while driving backwards.

What is it (General description of method)? Practicality? Are there situations where it's better (result is faster cornering) to use reverse entry drifting than normal drifting? Which is faster, normal or reverse entry drifting?

Is it possible with motorbike? 213.149.62.151 (talk) 20:09, 15 November 2018 (UTC)