Talk:2023 Lewiston shootings

shooting/shootings

Police reports indicate only one shooter. Since it occurred at multiple locations media sources seem to be conflicted on whether this is one "shooting" or multiple (ABC reports former, CNN latter). Looking for consensus on which title is more correct Elijahr241 (talk) 01:25, 26 October 2023 (UTC)

Multiple shootings. See 2022 Saskatchewan stabbings. elijahpepe@wikipedia (he/him) 01:33, 26 October 2023 (UTC)

I think the plural option, shootings, works better. @Elijahr241: what do you think? City of Silver 02:40, 26 October 2023 (UTC)

plural works better because even if it is one guy, it's still seperate instances of mass murder in different locations

Most people will identify it as seperate shootings in different areas Marmorda (talk) 02:42, 26 October 2023 (UTC)

Bit conflicted because to me, "shootings" implies multiple suspects. Maybe it could just be made clear in the lead that it was all one guy (at least, once we have more information) Elijahr241 (talk) 02:43, 26 October 2023 (UTC)

Okay! I changed it to singular but if anyone wants to change it back, go for it Marmorda (talk) 02:45, 26 October 2023 (UTC)

Concur that this should be plural because at least 3 places have been shot up. Clyde _{[trout needed]} 02:45, 26 October 2023 (UTC)

Suspect

Has (BLP violation removed) been identified as the suspect by police? Local Facebook (I know, so reliable) groups and people are identifying him as (redacted). Marmorda (talk) 02:50, 26 October 2023 (UTC)

Please refresh yourself on the BLP policy, probably shouldnt be dropping names like this at such a preliminary stage. @Acroterion you may need to hide this discussion thread. LegalSmeagolian (talk) 02:53, 26 October 2023 (UTC)

Oops, sorry! Marmorda (talk) 02:53, 26 October 2023 (UTC)

Removed his name! Marmorda (talk) 02:54, 26 October 2023 (UTC)

You forgot to at the start of your comment as well, also page revisions will need to be blanked. No worries but in the event it isn't who people are id-ing the picture, it can be real bad news bears. LegalSmeagolian (talk) 02:57, 26 October 2023 (UTC)

I've yet to see any official statements or news reports, only twitter and facebook. Elijahr241 (talk) 02:54, 26 October 2023 (UTC)

I agree with Acroterion. Just scrolling through the twitter thread there is so much conflicting information and I would be very hesitant to add anything to the article from any of those sources. Qwexcxewq (talk) 03:03, 26 October 2023 (UTC)

Bangor Daily News claims a Maine Department of Public Safety spokesperson has confirmed the name. SpaceTeapot (talk) 03:07, 26 October 2023 (UTC)

Lets wait for a few more sources to add that info back. LegalSmeagolian (talk) 03:09, 26 October 2023 (UTC)

Most of the major news sources are reporting the same. SpaceTeapot (talk) 03:09, 26 October 2023 (UTC)

Wow that was fast, yes CNN has identified him as a "person of interest" so I assume other outlets have this as well. LegalSmeagolian (talk) 03:11, 26 October 2023 (UTC)

'Admin warning Nobody has any business posting suspect names or links until it is amply reported by a consensus of major news outlets. I've already protected the aricle and warned editors about this. Please stop, and wait. This rush to post a name has potential for great harm to innocent individuals. Acroterion (talk) 03:00, 26 October 2023 (UTC)

A significant number of remaining revisions have a name in them, the oldest I can find being revision 1181926587. — Greentryst ^T_C 03:08, 26 October 2023 (UTC)

I've gone back through, but it's looking like it's moot in any case. The notion that we must name somebody on the thinnest of references or rumors is a perennial concern. However, any descriptions of people's level of interest from law enforcement must stick closely to the way sources word it, and it must be well-sourced. The same goes for any mentions of possible victims. Acroterion (talk) 03:13, 26 October 2023 (UTC)

Would person of interest be appropriate to add?LegalSmeagolian (talk) 03:16, 26 October 2023 (UTC)

I believe that's how they're expressing it, and that's done for a lot of obvious legal and ethical reasons that editors should respect, and use the same terms. Acroterion (talk) 03:20, 26 October 2023 (UTC)

Person of interest named

(BLP violation removed) is a person of interest. Source: https://www.nbcnews.com/news/amp/live-blog/rcna122249 2605:8D80:404:9D6:D9CC:757D:2060:A51A (talk) 03:09, 26 October 2023 (UTC)

Also named on NY Post and CentralMaine.com . Qwexcxewq (talk) 03:17, 26 October 2023 (UTC)

The press and media are not bound by BLP. We are. See WP:SUSPECT. -Ad Orientem (talk) 03:55, 26 October 2023 (UTC)

Associated Press is citing the name of the person of interest from the press conference and police bulletin reviewed. It’s worth noting especially as they are being reported as a firearms instructor. https://apnews.com/article/49da6d06a8b5a15d3b619b3927bc33ff

Coasterghost (talk) 03:57, 26 October 2023 (UTC)

Ad Orientem and Acroterion really doing all the work out there. Y'all are awesome! Marmorda (talk) 03:57, 26 October 2023 (UTC)

• My bad, I put his name on the main article without reading this first. L1amw90 10:52, 26 October 2023 (UTC)

Maps

Can you please explain @ElijahPepe why you deleted the map with "Maps should not be done this way. Hold off on including one with three locations." Thanks. - Fuzheado | Talk 03:10, 26 October 2023 (UTC)

Template:Infobox civilian attack includes map parameters already. I recommended holding off because there are three locations and pinpointing one to use is difficult; in theory, we could use Template:OSM Location map with specific points. elijahpepe@wikipedia (he/him) 03:13, 26 October 2023 (UTC)

I've edited dozens of breaking news (sadly) shooting articles over the years, and adding a map is standard practice. We can have a basic map now and get it more detailed as we go along. - Fuzheado | Talk 03:16, 26 October 2023 (UTC)

Since this is multiple location, a custom made map of each of the locations would likely be more helpful to the reader. LegalSmeagolian (talk) 03:20, 26 October 2023 (UTC)

Once things are clearer, sure, but for now this map provides a lot more context than none at all. I sure didn't know where Lewiston was before. — Greentryst ^T_C 03:26, 26 October 2023 (UTC)

I have made such a template but I'm busy gathering as much information as possible. If someone else could add additional pins, that would be great. elijahpepe@wikipedia (he/him) 03:27, 26 October 2023 (UTC)

Edit request: active voice

Can someone with extended edit privileges please edit the opening section to use the active voice? Dreameditsbrooklyn (talk) 03:16, 26 October 2023 (UTC)

Could you elaborate? Active voice is not always preferable if passive voice would be clearer. elijahpepe@wikipedia (he/him) 03:25, 26 October 2023 (UTC)

"an individual shot and killed at least 22 people"

is much better than:

"a mass shooting occurred"

others sources have already concurred there is one shooter and editors have written that in, so there is no obstacle to eliminating the passive voice from the introduction Dreameditsbrooklyn (talk) 03:41, 26 October 2023 (UTC)

Again, there is nothing wrong with well-written passive voice. The emphasis is on the mass shootings occurring. elijahpepe@wikipedia (he/him) 04:00, 26 October 2023 (UTC)

Suspect has been identified by NYT, CNN, and NBC

Is it now safe to include his name in the article @Acroterion:? Di (they-them) (talk) 03:19, 26 October 2023 (UTC)

They have since been added. LegalSmeagolian (talk) 03:20, 26 October 2023 (UTC)

Also add some information about him. His DOB is April 4, 1983 and lived in neighboring Bowdoin at the time of the shootings, as this was all according to The Maine Wire. It was unknown where he was born or any early info on him, but all I know is that he was once part of the military and was divorced twice. 2600:1702:5225:C010:40C8:CE30:D97F:2B6A (talk) 03:25, 26 October 2023 (UTC)

is there a source for this in more than one news outlet? Marmorda (talk) 03:25, 26 October 2023 (UTC)

This is information that appears to be from the police and appears in CNN, though I urge all editors to exercise caution at the moment. elijahpepe@wikipedia (he/him) 03:28, 26 October 2023 (UTC)

Multiple sources, even CNN did tell some info about him. I am still investigating on his backstory as well. 2600:1702:5225:C010:40C8:CE30:D97F:2B6A (talk) 03:28, 26 October 2023 (UTC)

Cut it out. See WP:OR and WP:BLP. LegalSmeagolian (talk) 03:30, 26 October 2023 (UTC)

This all sounds like personal information that's not directly relevant to the shootings themselves (which is what the article is about). Di (they-them) (talk) 03:27, 26 October 2023 (UTC)

Not a Reliable Source. LegalSmeagolian (talk) LegalSmeagolian (talk) 03:27, 26 October 2023 (UTC)

No. See WP:SUSPECT. -Ad Orientem (talk) 03:21, 26 October 2023 (UTC)

Could you provide a quote where providing a suspect's name is not allowed given several reliable sources and police confirmation? elijahpepe@wikipedia (he/him) 03:24, 26 October 2023 (UTC)

I think I just did. See the link. That said, if this person is actually arrested and formally indicted, I think at that point it would be permissible to post their name. But as of right now this individual does not even appear to be in custody. -Ad Orientem (talk) 03:28, 26 October 2023 (UTC)

This is an interesting case as a very large majority of mass shooters die at the scene and hence are not subject to the BLP policy - in this instance shooter is at large. Did editors wait for Nikolas Cruz to be convicted before adding his info to the Parkland page as a suspect? LegalSmeagolian (talk) 03:33, 26 October 2023 (UTC)

I don't recall the specifics, but I believe that once a suspect in an event of this nature is actually indicted, that commonsense might allow us to name that person. -Ad Orientem (talk) 03:45, 26 October 2023 (UTC)

Thanks for the clarification. LegalSmeagolian (talk) 03:46, 26 October 2023 (UTC)

Per @Ad Orientem - I'm uncomfortable putting the name into the article in any significant way, much less the lead paragraph. I've removed it from there. - Fuzheado | Talk 03:30, 26 October 2023 (UTC)

Not relevant to here, but this has taught me to not jump the gun so quickly! thanks guys :) Marmorda (talk) 03:32, 26 October 2023 (UTC)

Same. Learning and growing. LegalSmeagolian (talk) 03:33, 26 October 2023 (UTC)

I'd support this, now that he has been named in quite a few RS. Clyde _{[trout needed]} 03:21, 26 October 2023 (UTC)

Nevermind, per Ad Orientem. Clyde _{[trout needed]} 03:23, 26 October 2023 (UTC)

All I asked was the editors wait until that kind of consensus emerges among major news organizations. The rush to name a name at all costs on thin sourcing or rumor is unseemly, and editors really need to remember BLP at all times. Acroterion (talk) 03:23, 26 October 2023 (UTC)

Police have confirmed his name. That is as far as I'm willing to go here, and I have created a custom label in the infobox to that extent. elijahpepe@wikipedia (he/him) 03:25, 26 October 2023 (UTC)

Police only have this as a named person of interest, but that doesn't make his the suspect. Do not add any names until they say they have actually caught the shooter and identified him. Masem (t) 03:34, 26 October 2023 (UTC)

To be fair they have named him and described him as "armed and dangerous" but yes conservative approach is good. LegalSmeagolian (talk) 03:36, 26 October 2023 (UTC)

I agree - a "person of interest" is not necessarily a suspect, and does not need to be named here unless that status changes. We stick to what the sources say. Acroterion (talk) 03:38, 26 October 2023 (UTC)

• The press and media are not governed by BLP. We are. -Ad Orientem (talk) 03:40, 26 October 2023 (UTC)

Only two locations

Can someone with edit privileges add that there was no shooting at the Walmart location? See the Sun Journal article quoting a Walmart spokesperson - Kefr4000 (talk) 03:24, 26 October 2023 (UTC)

I tried to clarify it a bit more, but suggested prose is welcome. - Fuzheado | Talk 03:33, 26 October 2023 (UTC)

What about:

Initially, there were reports of shots at a nearby Walmart distribution center. The company later reported, however, that after police had searched the facility and all associates on the clock had been accounted for, the company was confident no shooting had occurred on Walmart property.

I think it is more precise. Kefr4000 (talk) 03:49, 26 October 2023 (UTC)

auburn mayor reaction

Mayor of Lewiston's sister city Auburn gave NBC a statement that could be added to the Reactions section Elijahr241 (talk) 03:32, 26 October 2023 (UTC)

@Di (they-them) It's Auburn, Maine (lewiston's neighboring city), not Washington. I'd change it myself but I'm not extended-confirmed Elijahr241 (talk) 03:56, 26 October 2023 (UTC)

Thank you, I'm not sure why I made that mistake. Di (they-them) (talk) 03:59, 26 October 2023 (UTC)

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 26 October 2023

{The deaths have been adjusted between 15-20 deaths} 66.252.38.211 (talk) 04:34, 26 October 2023 (UTC)

Please provide a reliable source. - Fuzheado | Talk 04:43, 26 October 2023 (UTC)

 Already done Nythar (💬-🍀) 05:58, 26 October 2023 (UTC)

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 26 October 2023 (2)

Add "As of 1:55 AM Eastern Time, Bates College, a private liberal arts institution located in Lewiston, Maine, remains under lockdown. The lockdown was initiated at 8:10 PM local Eastern Time, and thousands of students continue to shelter in place within various buildings across the campus." Folkarrivals (talk) 05:55, 26 October 2023 (UTC)

 Not done. Just one school of many in lockdown, nothing noteworthy about this one. WWGB (talk) 06:18, 26 October 2023 (UTC)

Reactions

The Celtics had made a post on X that stated “our thoughts are with everyone in Lewiston, Maine.” With a picture attached of the final score of their game that night which got controversial feedback and was deleted and reposted without the picture.

[1] [2] Puppy20love (talk) 07:02, 26 October 2023 (UTC)

If you can provide an archived source for this (other than screenshots, which I have found), I will add it. Scaledish! Talkish? Statish. 07:28, 26 October 2023 (UTC)

I found a source and I have added it. Di (they-them) (talk) 10:08, 26 October 2023 (UTC)

I looked at the talk page before I did my edit but missed this section. Apologies. I think it is important that prayers and the game score scoreboard portion of the image be included if you are going to include the controversial parts. It's leaving part of the controversy out. As it is, it doesn't tell what the controversy was. Personally, I think the controversial part should be left out and it just mention they tweeted their thoughts. If the controversy portion is that important to document, add it to the controversy section of their own page. Once again, sorry about not bringing my edit here first. P37307 (talk) 11:00, 26 October 2023 (UTC)

22 have been confirmed killed

Not at least 15, 22: https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/lewiston-maine-shooting-active-shooter-live-b2436191.html 2605:8D80:404:9D6:D9CC:757D:2060:A51A (talk) 07:10, 26 October 2023 (UTC)

Already?

Wikipedia article already? Who does that? Ugh 109.245.95.120 (talk) 08:43, 26 October 2023 (UTC)

Apologies for not consulting you personally on the appropriate wait time before creating an article about a notable event. WaffleTruth (talk) 09:06, 26 October 2023 (UTC)