Talk:Antisemitism in the British Labour Party: Difference between revisions

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== References ==
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== External links ==
== External links ==

Revision as of 20:20, 18 February 2018

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External links

Does this video from a 'Youtube channel' in External links contribute at all to the subject? I've watched it right the way through and, apart from the inflammatory comments of Ken Livingstone and possibly clear anti-semitism by "a councillor in Basingstoke" it doesn't seem to take the debate forward. Admittedly there is strong criticism of Chakraborty's report in the video's conclusion, but that is already well-covered by other reliable sources. Time for it to go? Sionk (talk) 04:35, 30 December 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Yes, please as this feels like more Corbyn bashing without context or relevance to the larger issues. C. W. Gilmore (talk) 16:26, 6 January 2018 (UTC)[reply]

News article: How Some Wikipedia Editors Tried—and Failed—To Erase Antisemitism in the Labour Party this article

This page is about improving the article, not slandering other editors.Slatersteven (talk) 18:52, 11 January 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Tabletmag presumbly fact checked prior to making assertions regarding editors. Some bits in that article worth incorporating here - e.g. the 100 MPs denouncing the way this was handled by the party.Icewhiz (talk) 18:58, 11 January 2018 (UTC)[reply]
I see no suggestion of an edit, I see an attack on other editors. I ask for it to be struck (and I was not talking about that article, but the accusation made about POV editors making Wikipedia look bad, which had nothing to do with the subject of our article).Slatersteven (talk) 19:01, 11 January 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Looks like "Partisan online article making Wikipedia look bad" should be the strapline. Sionk (talk) 19:53, 11 January 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Slatersteven this is nothing new for Gregory; he has already done this at the Linda Sarsour talk page. Apparently, here, Gregory is proud of the canvassing that it took to keep this "article". That is the only thing making Wikipedia look bad.TheGracefulSlick (talk) 19:57, 11 January 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Rather like the canvasing on social media for votes when the article was up for AfD, these actions surprise no one. C. W. Gilmore (talk) 12:54, 12 January 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Can this be hated by an uninvolved editor, it is on e thin g to ask a user to not make PA's. It is quite another to accused them of making others on other pages. This is not about us (or him) this is about antisemitism in the Labour party.Slatersteven (talk) 10:00, 12 January 2018 (UTC)[reply]

If edds have evidence of canvasing it needs to be reported to admins, not discussed here.Slatersteven (talk) 13:07, 12 January 2018 (UTC)[reply]

It was brought up on the AfD page[1] and there was evidence [2] but I'm not going near that one. C. W. Gilmore (talk) 13:14, 12 January 2018 (UTC)[reply]
I do not care this is not the right venue to discus it.Slatersteven (talk) 13:17, 12 January 2018 (UTC)[reply]
This Tablemag article is a further escalation of what has been happened regarding this article for a while, it is relevant to the discussion. This is my point and I will say no more. C. W. Gilmore (talk) 13:26, 12 January 2018 (UTC)[reply]

I have now raised the issue at a more appropriate venue [[3]], please take any further discussion on this matter there.Slatersteven (talk) 14:08, 12 January 2018 (UTC)[reply]

The Labour party are not far left

What the far left thinks is not all that relevant to a party that is center left. If we are going to include surveys at least make sure the results are relevant to the labour party and not just some minority fringe of that party. It just makes the article look like a hatched job. Please do not reinstate contested material without first discusing it.Slatersteven (talk) 11:56, 28 January 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Momentum (organisation) (currently in control on the party, no? Hard to call to call Corbyn a small minority fringe post 2015) is a bit on the edge, no? Wouldn't they be described as "very left" (the survey does not actually use "far left")? The section you are striking out also contains Elevated levels of anti-Israel attitudes are also observed in other groups on the political left: the fairly left-wing and those slightly left-of-centre. - which would apply to non-Corbynite factions of the party.Icewhiz (talk) 12:04, 28 January 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Are they, the article calls them left, not "very left" (which must be different form Far left of course), so how does the report define "very left"( here is a clue " Yet, all parts of those on the left of the political spectrum – including the ‘slightly left-of-centre,’ the ‘fairly left-wing’ and the ‘very left-wing’ ", so it appears that yes "very left" means the far left)? Also why not then give the figures that would apply to the whole party, and not one section of it?Slatersteven (talk) 12:10, 28 January 2018 (UTC)[reply]
There are obviously far left elements in the party. Darkness Shines (talk) 12:19, 28 January 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Of course there are, But what does their views tell us about the party? We are giving (yet another) paragraph over to something that is not about the party (just a fraction of it) that even the report makes clear may not even be antisemitism, thus fails undue.Slatersteven (talk) 12:24, 28 January 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Had this article been about "Antisemitism of the Labour Party" you would have a point, however it is about "Antisemitism in the Labour Party" - covering the minority, though perhaps a sizable one, of party activists and office holders that have made antisemitic statements - said minority is, in general, on the leftist edge of the party in terms of the inner spectrum.Icewhiz (talk) 12:27, 28 January 2018 (UTC)[reply]
It is also not called "anti-Israelism in the Labour Party", and the report makes it quite clear that a antisemitism and anti-Israelism are not synonymous. So this is not about antisemitism in the Labour party.Slatersteven (talk) 12:33, 28 January 2018 (UTC)[reply]
The report itself explicitly points out they are correlated.Icewhiz (talk) 12:42, 28 January 2018 (UTC)[reply]
No it does not, it says that they are sometimes correlated when a person holds more then one anti-Israeli attitude. " A majority of those who hold anti-Israel attitudes do not espouse any antisemitic attitudes..." That is pretty damn unambiguous. So this tells us nothing about the degree of antisemitism in the LAbour party (which is, is it not, the point of quoting those figures?)Slatersteven (talk) 12:46, 28 January 2018 (UTC)[reply]
We discovered that anti-Israel attitudes are not, as a general rule, antisemitic; but the stronger a person’s anti-Israel views, the more likely they are to hold antisemitic attitudes. A majority of those who hold anti-Israel attitudes do not espouse any antisemitic attitudes, but a significant minority of those who hold anti-Israel attitudes hold them alongside antisemitic attitudes. Therefore, antisemitism and anti-Israel attitudes exist both separately and together. That's a pretty strong correlation. The report itself ties between the far-left and labour - Given recent concerns about antisemitism in the Labour Party, there is a strong case for looking closely at the far-left, and given several high-profile terrorist attacks on Jewish targets in France, Belgium and Denmark in recent years, there is clear reason for an examination of at least parts of the Muslim population.. Furthermore regarding very left wing respondents, the report says A strong majority of very left-wing respondents align themselves with the Labour Party - so the metric relevant to very left-wing applies to the Labour party.Icewhiz (talk) 14:01, 28 January 2018 (UTC)[reply]
No it applies to some in the LAbour party, so a minority of some does not act as a counter point to "the left are not significantly antisemitic".Slatersteven (talk) 09:23, 29 January 2018 (UTC)[reply]
The Survey evidence section violates synthesis, because it implies that Labour=Left. While Labour is to the Left of the Conservatives, it is not clear where on the spectrum Labour begins or ends. The argument that some Labourites are very left or far left is disingenuous. All kinds of people belong to Labour. We wouldn't include a profile of bank robbers in the Labour Party article on the basis that some of them belong to the party. Furthermore, most left-wing people in the UK do not belong to Labour. Fewer than 1% of the UK population are members. The section should go, unless reliable sources connect it to the party. TFD (talk) 14:21, 28 January 2018 (UTC)[reply]
As the report itself makes the connection (as well as addressing antisemitism in Labour) - it is not SYNTH - "A strong majority of very left-wing respondents align themselves with the Labour Party" - which is stated right next to the statistics in question.Icewhiz (talk) 14:24, 28 January 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Note the article is about anti-Semitism in the Labour Party, not about people outside the party who vote for them. As I mentioned, less than 1% of the population belong to Labour, yet the party received 40% of the vote in the last election. That's the problem when one creates an article about a subject that does not exist in reliable sources. None of the sources one finds have direct relevance. TFD (talk) 15:09, 28 January 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Is BAZO part of the LAbour party, how about the liberal party, are they a branch of the Labour party?Slatersteven (talk) 10:22, 29 January 2018 (UTC)[reply]
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