Talk:Greece

Map of Infobox

That new map on the infobox must be updated, because its wrong. It does not show the Aegean Islands of Greece! 77.83.191.156 (talk) 12:45, 17 October 2009 (UTC)

 Done I've added a few of the major ones. Fut.Perf. ☼ 14:36, 17 October 2009 (UTC)

Thanks for that! I think that it would be great if you could complete your nice job and add corfu as well as cyclades islands, as well as sporades. Thanks! 77.83.191.156 (talk) 15:56, 17 October 2009 (UTC)

I actually did Corfu. The rest is a bit difficult, and in any case the map is so imprecise adding too much small detail doesn't really make much sense. It's only for a very rough overview anyway. Fut.Perf. ☼ 17:00, 17 October 2009 (UTC)

Ok thanks. If I can recall, previous version used to have all islands, maybe we should stick with that instead, if its too difficult to add the rest of the islands? I mean, excluding cyclades and sporades where at least 200,000 people live there, is not a very small detail. I hope you understand the point.77.83.191.156 (talk) 18:22, 17 October 2009 (UTC)

Why is this page locked?

Why? I want to know why. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 94.71.36.132 (talk) 13:36, 16 November 2009 (UTC)

03:02, 17 June 2009 J.delanoy (talk | contribs) changed protection level of Greece [edit=autoconfirmed] (indefinite) [move=sysop] (indefinite) ‎ (Excessive vandalism: sigh) (hist) --JokerXtreme (talk) 18:50, 16 November 2009 (UTC)

What? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 83.212.41.168 (talk) 18:54, 17 November 2009 (UTC)

Etymology

Greece as the country of greek - greek: from the old Turkish slang word greco meaning slave the Hellenic community chose this name in order never forget(or forgive) the time their nation was under their cruel hold.

• the above is a translated part from a book of fourth grade class of elementary school in Greece

The original name Hellas (the h is mute) is the most proper name of their nation that they mostly prefer over the others, in the extend you can very easily earn ones of them respect by showing the respect calling them Hellenic (the h is mute)

-thrust me I am from there. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 85.74.200.205 (talk) 14:38, 1 December 2009 (UTC)

Greece is derived from an ancient name of the Greek tribe as ancient Greeks had many names for themselves like Hellenes (Ἕλληνες) and the country Hellas (Ἑλλάς), Graeci (Γραικοί), Graecia (Γραικία) and others. However, only "Graecia" passed to the Latin language and then to the rest of Europe.Dimboukas (talk) 20:05, 17 December 2009 (UTC)

It's exactly as Dimboukas said it. Check here for further info: Names of the Greeks. Kyriakos (talk) 11:05, 18 December 2009 (UTC)

GDP Ranking and new values for 2009

On the infobox, Ranking for GDP per capita and GDP per capita (nominal)should change to 25th and 26th respectively and include the new vaules for 2009 according to IMF.82.68.83.147 (talk) 15:26, 11 February 2010 (UTC)

Greece bankruptcy

I don't understand why editors do not want to include the greece bankruptcy. I now people say wiki isn't the news, but this has been going on for nearly a year, it's just now that it's been advertised and made present to the public. Dates saying greece was deep in the red date back to early-mid 2009, so I don't get why editors say "it's too recent". It's recent enough to be included and important, but old enough to be considered an established fact and not just a recent news swoop. As for now, I'm re-putting it, 'cause I'm sorry, but anyone who reads the economy section is stunned at how there isn't even any info on Greece's 2008 - 2010 huge financial crisis, banking problems, massive debt and vicinity to bankruptcy. As for that, since it's relevant and recent, but not just a one minute yesterday news swoop and is an established fact with tonnes of reliable sources, I'm putting it back in.--Theologiae (talk) 21:55, 12 February 2010 (UTC)

If you look at the end of the economy section, there is a dedicated sentenceto the recent fiscal crisis:

By the end of 2009, as a result of a combination of international (financial crisis) and local (uncontrolled spending prior to the October 2009 national elections) factors, the Greek economy faced its most severe crisis after 1993, with the second highest budget deficit as well as the second highest debt to GDP ratio in the EU. Your addition is thus redundant. Second, it's placement at the top of the economy section and its tone are not NPOV ("causing problems for the euro). Athenean (talk) 00:20, 13 February 2010 (UTC)

It's not redundant, 'cause nothing is written about Greece being bankrupt, only a very short two lines of how Greece is suffering a financial crisis. Plus, it's not POV, because it's true that Greece was causing problems to the value of the euro, so that before Germany and France aided it, it was thought about removing it from the eurozone. It doesn't matter whilst it's at the top or not. If you don't like it at the top, just put it somewhere else (even though such as big problem seems obvious to be put at the top). This is not a matter of preference really; it's an established fact with a huge amount of evidence, and it just seems you do not want to include it. It's not opinion, but recent, established fact. I'm sorry, but it just seems like some people are working against making this encyclopedia better and more reliable.--Theologiae (talk) 09:07, 13 February 2010 (UTC)

First of all, please assume good faith and don't make assumptions about my motives. It's not very nice. Don't get me wrong, I think it should be included, but not in the fashion you have. I will move it to a more apptopriate location, and slightly change the wording of "causing problems for the euro", which is vague and unencyclopedic. Second, I can come up with just as many sources that Greece, while going through a fiscal crisis, is not on the verge of bankruptcy and is solvent till April. I will include that as well. Hope that's ok with you. Athenean (talk) 09:13, 13 February 2010 (UTC)

The funny thing is, even from the three sources Theologiae provided, only the article from JoongAng Daily hints about "Greece is on the verge of bankruptcy" being a fact (btw, who is Bae Myung-bok and why should his opinion be given more weight than that of the president of the ECB for example ?). The other two present bankruptcy as a scenario, the one that draws the most fears, not because of its probability but because of its consequences. The problem with this discussion IMO is that whatever statement or analysis one might present to make his case, most of them are, either distancing Greece from bankruptcy or doing the opposite, part of a greater info game, which in turn has a lot to do with what this crisis is about. That's my main reason for considering the sentence unacceptable and the whole discussion without much meaning at present. --Δρακόλακκος (talk) 13:17, 13 February 2010 (UTC)

I didn't mean to be rude or anything. When I said that I meant "sometimes it irritates me how some stupid reasons are given for not including things", not "I think you are a bad editor", and if you understood badly, then I'm sorry. I see your point... it's just that with such a huge recession Greece is going through, it seems just a bit inappropriate to have several paragraphs on how Greece is so productive, industrious and has such a flourishing economy (which I do not doubt), but then only have one or two lines just mentioning in the least detail possible Greece's financial crisis. Now, by no means am I saying to erase the economy sector and write tonnes of paragraphs on all the detail of the recession, but to at least have one worthily sized paragraph on it seems appropriate. Anyway, I hope I can collaborate to improve this article.--Theologiae (talk) 14:37, 13 February 2010 (UTC)

On second thought, I agree with Δρακόλακκος above. Two out of the three sources say bankruptcy is a scenario. That is very different from saying it is on the verge of bankruptcy. The third source is just some website, what are its credentials are far as meeting WP:RS? The only thing we can say so far with certainty is that Greece is struggling with a huge debt and budget deficit, but not much more. If Greece does go bankrupt and this causes problems for the euro, we could include that, but until such time I think it is best not to do so, particularly as it is not backed up by the sources provided. Athenean (talk) 20:53, 13 February 2010 (UTC)

No way Theologiae. We are not here to play the parrots of wall street and city speculators with dubious priorities trying to make money by trying to ruin countries. No serious analyst included nobelist economists, give a chance in such ridiculous scenarios. As for the scaring tactics inside EU, everyone adequately informed, and enough logical, knows that EU cannot really afford such a scenario in any case, and that behind these there is only a push to some other EU countries and their people (such as Italy and Spain) to take and accept more drastic measures in reducing their debts. No need to participate in such games here in WP. Now if you really believe that such a scenario has any chance and is notable (and you don't trust the today statement of Jean Claude Juncker), wait a while until bankruptcy happen and then you will have every opportunity to write a full chapter about "Greece's bankruptcy". Until then I accept your concerns in informing the readers, in good faith, but is better to post them in a more appropriate media to avoid making WP another player of that game of scenariology and avoid misunderstandings about your intentions. --Factuarius (talk) 14:40, 14 February 2010 (UTC)

What is written in the article is factually incorrect and reflects a Greek nationalist agenda. The rest of the EU is not happy with Greek government policy in dealing with the crisis, and this article claims that they are. Furthermore, other so-called facts are completely misleading: Greeks have always had a problem with saving money, and most of the assets in Greek banks are from Albanian deposits rather than Greek account holders. It is therefore debatable what the deposit-lending ratio means for the economy, although it has implications for individual banks. Other economic data are just left as the fraudulent statistics that Greece presented to the EU -- without comment. Sorry, this is not a serious article when it ignores the worst economic crisis for Greece in 50 years. 85.72.235.178 (talk) 13:48, 19 February 2010 (UTC)