Talk:Robert Conrad

Disputed birth name and date

Year of birth

Disputed year of birth -- most likely born in 1929 as per The Globe (tabloid) & Intelius search. If he were really born in 1935 he would have been 16 at the time he first married -- exceedingly unlikely. Globe tabloid gave his age at 78 (his birthday is on March 1), as did Intelius search of Robert Conrads in California; there were no 72 year olds. I will check Intelius on March 1 to see if age changes to 79 (Intelius updates age annually automatically by date of birth). 216.194.2.181 (talk) 17:10, 28 February 2008 (UTC)

It appears most likely from the sources that covered the trial that the year of birth was 1929; but 1935 is way off, inconsistent with both his age at marriage and military service. The trial information included the age information from the police report. http://www.theage.com.au/articles/2003/04/29/1051381938666.html Most news accounts listed his age at the time of the accident based on the court documents. http://www.koco.com/entertainment/2111939/detail.html http://www.ew.com/ew/article/0,,845698,00.html The trial exposure revealing his real age may have been embarrassing for Conrad, but the impact on his victim, Kevin Burnett, was far worse. He died at age 28 of perforated ulcers in 2005 his family blamed on the 2003 collision. http://www.mymotherlode.com/news/local/news_detail.php?ID=41827 Eudemis (talk) 14:23, 12 September 2009 (UTC)

There's a news article out today that discusses Conrad's age. The article is not definitive by any means, but links to some speculation that he lied about his age to join the Marines when he was 15. The Library of Congress also lists his year of birth as 1935. There's an [ht tp://tman.com/qa_robert_conrad.html interview] that would seem to support 1935 as well. However, when I contacted his agency (David Shapira and Associates), they indicated his year of birth was 1929.Gobonobo ^{T C} 20:19, 1 March 2010 (UTC)

It appears that this keeps getting endlessly reverted. Every news account discussing the accident mentioned his age discrepancy and reported the age given in the police report and court documents. Based on the police reports he was 6 years older than what appears in most entertainment biographies. "Police listed Conrad's age at 74. Television and film reference guides report the actor is 68." meaning officials stated he was born in 1929. [1] Calling in to his radio show as was suggested by the latest reverter is original research and not permitted. Is it possible to get the reversions stopped until we have a fact checked media source that 1935 is correct and an explanation as to why the official court documents and police report are wrong? Eudemis (talk) 06:06, 19 April 2010 (UTC)

The age reversions seem to be never ending at least while there are entertainment biographies still showing 1935. Fact checked media sources should always be required here (even if they keep getting removed). It may require a more detailed discussion within the article of the drunk driving court documents that revealed 1929. Eudemis (talk) 03:59, 6 October 2010 (UTC)

First, if you wouldn't mind, instead of discussing something that hasn't been talked about for a long time, would you please start a new thread at the bottom of the talk page to make it easier to find? I had a heck of a time locating what you were talking about in your edit summary. Ok, I removed two of your new references that you added to the article. One was a pay for reference which we don't use and the other was about his drunk driving which is a blurb in a paper that has nothing to do with his age. We can't do original research which is what it looks like you are doing. If you look at the dif it says Conrad was born in 1935. Also check out the other reference through the Isbn # which also says his date of birth. You need to use better references than you are using to show the things you are trying to say. --CrohnieGal^Talk 16:55, 6 October 2010 (UTC)

Anon 67.142.168.25 wished to add the following: ---According to NOW days ways of think---BUT back in that era it was VERY common for young people to get married at 15 and 16. Plus, he lied about his age in order to drive a delvery truck and it was on his drivers licenes. He showed his birth record to people to prove he was born in 1935. Globe (now there is a reliable sorce)AGAIN People lied OFTEN about their age to join the military and to get married. It was VERY common in the 1950's and on back before that decade. Many that serverd where teens.The guy had ULCERS LONG -LONG before the wreck. He woul have died from that ha he been in a wreck or not. He was not that badly injured. ROBERT CONRAD Has said Week after week that this was NOT his given name. He said it was Konrad Robert FALK! Text moved by Eudemis (talk) 22:26, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

Year of birth

Robert Conrad showed his birth certificate on his CRN show. 1935 was stated as the year of birth.

Also, had Robert Conrad been born in 1929 than his Mother was 9 years old when she had him.

Some seem not to realize that people got married much younger in back in the 1950's and on further back. It was common place for people to lie about their age and get married young especially in the eastern states of the US.

Robert Conrad married at 16. His Mother had him at age 15, out of wedlock.

Robert Conrad lied about his age to join the Marines. When he was found out and not able to join he lied about his age to get a truck driving job with the teamsters union in order to support his young new family at age 16. That is why his drivers license stated that he was born in 1929. It was lie that came back to haunt him once he had his DUI.

But even Chicago birth records have him down as being born in 1935 as stated on his birth certificate. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 67.142.171.25 (talk) 21:39, 20 August 2012 (UTC)

This is information from a primary source. You have also deleted large portions of the biography that were sourced. Please review WP:RS. The biography should be sourced from secondary sources. Eudemis (talk) 02:56, 29 August 2012 (UTC)

Name at birth: Konrad Robert Falkowski

I don't see it but I thought this had been previously discussed. Daily Variety lists this as his birth name. [2] so it is sourced. Is there any other reason it is removed? Eudemis (talk) 06:31, 19 April 2010 (UTC)

This is completely erroneous. The 1940 census indicates his birth name was Conrad Robert Falk but IMDb won't change it unless someone provides a valid URL source. Quis separabit? 20:02, 27 August 2012 (UTC)

Sources and usual approach

When sources give alternative names or dates, then we record both and make a footnote explaining that sources differ - see Dusty Springfield. If there is a dispute about a given name, that is also noted with reference to sources - see George Harrison. I suggest that reliable sources - [3] - are cited in a neutral footnote regarding the discrepancy, something simple like: "Sources differ on birth date and name." SilkTork *^YES! 19:07, 8 October 2010 (UTC)

Deleted Sources

Just to address the concerns listed in recent edit summaries regarding Conrad's birth name and year. Firstly, use of pay sites is perfectly acceptable on wikipedia and this is spelled out clearly in WP:Verifiability "Access to Sources...The principle of verifiability implies nothing about ease of access to sources: some online sources may require payment, while some print sources may be available only in university libraries." Additionally, why would you insist on reading the entire article when the freely provided online excerpt shown contains all the relevant information needed as well as the publisher, publication date and article title from a media source with a reputation for fact checking? I have restored the citation. Also the discrepancy in Conrad's birth date came to light when he was arrested for drunk driving. There is no requirement that the article be exclusively about his age. This same age information was included in numerous published mainstream media articles at the time of his arrest. I have restored the citation.

Birth Name

Regarding the birth name, the favored source, at least the one not reverted is Encyclopedia of early television crime fighters: all regular cast members in American crime and mystery series. While this is not from a news source with a reputation for fact checking, its title implies it is a reference. It, however, indicates that Conrad's birth name was Falkowski, not Falk. (See page 143 of Encyclopedia) I have changed the name back to the one currently supported by this source (see more below}. (It also gives 1929 as his birth year. )

There is clearly no consensus on his age with these online entertainment biographies differing from the media reports at the time of his drunk driving arrest. What is more important than providing the right birth date is not providing the wrong one. Until we have achieved some kind of agreement, we should eliminate providing a definitive date of birth and simply discuss the issue within the article. Implausible explanations as to why official police records and court documents are wrong require some kind of reliable sourcing to be included in the article. That is just common sense when the validity of these explanations is in question. Thus far, not one source supports the explanation currently in the article.

Reliable sourcing

Given the contentious nature of the birth date discussion, use of questionable sources should be avoided. The Encyclopedia, as noted above appears to be a reliable reference. Contrast NetIndustries LLC's "film reference" web page used as both footnotes 2 and 3. The NetIndustries LLC is not a news outlet, has no fact checking at all and hosts web pages with information gleaned from other online sources. (Their Conrad bio is taken verbatim from a copyright 2004 Gale Group online posting [4]) This web page shouldn't be used to source anything. See WP:Reliable Sources I have removed it.

Consistent with WP:BLP I have removed the unsourced explanation of why official police and court documents were inaccurate consistent with Wikipedia policy WP:BLP: "...any material challenged or likely to be challenged must be attributed to a reliable, published source using an inline citation; material not complying with this may be removed. This policy extends that principle, adding that contentious material about living persons that is unsourced or poorly sourced should be removed immediately and without discussion." This material is contentious and had no sourcing at all. Eudemis (talk) 21:22, 8 October 2010 (UTC)

Athlete?

Wasn't he an athlete? I heard he did his own stunts. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 173.20.226.163 (talk) 04:38, 26 January 2011 (UTC)

Yes he did work as a stunt man. Robert Conrad briefly discusses his stunt work on the Wild Wild West series on the DVD special features. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 199.64.0.252 (talk) 23:14, 11 October 2011 (UTC)

Biographical info

The name of Robert Conrad's father is Leonard Falk. We know this, as Robert Conrad revealed this information in the first season DVD release of The Wild, Wild West. Leonard Falk had a cameo role in the episode "The Night of the Murderous Spring." In an audio commentary before the episode, Robert Conrad identifies Leonard Falk as his father. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 166.137.13.172 (talk) 04:26, 31 December 2011 (UTC)

On reading the entire article again, the second paragraph about his parents and when they were married makes no sense. They were married in 1948 but Contrad was born in 1935 (or 1929)? These second paragraph dates seem all wrong. Certainly Bob Conrad himself would be the best source for all these dates. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.215.208.166 (talk) 04:45, 29 April 2012 (UTC)

The 1940 census gives George Smith as stepfather and Jacqueline Smith as mother; it also indicates that Smith was born in 1920, which means she gave birth at the age of 15. That's interesting stuff. Quis separabit? 20:04, 27 August 2012 (UTC)

New conflict over year of birth and birth name

Eudemis and all other interested parties: Please be aware that Konrad Robert Falkowski is not Bob Conrad's birthname. I know, because I am the one who incorrectly updated his IMDb profile back in 2003 or 2004, thinking it was so. I have made more than 3000 edits to IMDb, the vast majority accurate, and all well-intentioned and sincere, but definitely some boobs amongst the bunch, including the Conrad edit, which was evidently picked up by the source cited by Eudemis referencing the 1929 year of birth and purported birth name of Konrad Robert Falkowski. I also might add that Intelius and police records of the drunk driving incident in 2009 also confirm the 1935 year of birth, but I realize they are not always dispositive. I have tried to get IMDb to change it but they haven't yet.

Again, having checked Ancestry.com, which I don't think comprises OR it confirmed that the actor was born Conrad Robert Falk, and the birth certificate and 1940 census info (no info in 1930 census as he was not yet born) confirm the 1935 year of birth, however bizarre it may be that he got married a week before his 17th birthday. His father may have been named Leonard Falk, but I was not able to uncover any marriage records for Leonard and Jacqueline Falk, but hey maybe I missed something I am not perfect. I do know that by 1940, his mother (age given as 20; do the math!!) was residing with her husband, George Smith, Conrad's stepfather. Only one Konrad Falkowski was found, a different, much older man from the late 19th/early 20th centuries.

Those who have access to Ancestry can check for themselves; those who don't should be aware that there is a free 2 week (14 day) visitor pass which costs not one penny. I know because I used it myself before deciding much later to finally just register. Therefore, please let's avoid edit warring and remember IAR. Respectfully submitted and yours sincerely, Quis separabit? 19:54, 29 August 2012 (UTC)

If the March 1, 1935 date is correct you can work backwards using the Cooke County online records [5] that show:

Cooke County vital statistics birth name "Conrad Robert Norton Falk" on March 1, 1935

Parents:

DOB 5/15/1919 born Alice Jacqueline Hartman unemployed 15 listed as 17 on birth cert.

DOB 11/3/1918 born Leonard Henry Falkowski butcher (meat packing) 16 listed as 20 on birth cert.

The Falkowskis apparently anglicized their name to Falk sometime after 1918. Leonard H. Falk/Falkowski's address on Bishop Street from ancestry.com [6] matches the one given in a Chicago Sun-Times article as the address where Conrad grew up. [7]Eudemis (talk) 23:35, 31 August 2012 (UTC)

Early years/age discrepancy

I was asked to have a look at this. The sources look good, especially the census profile, but I have no idea if the who2.com is a reliable source or not. I would point out that the section on his age needs cleaning up.

"Conrad was born Conrad Robert Falk[2] in Chicago, Illinois, the son of Jacqueline "Jackie" Smith, first publicity director of Mercury Records, who later married Chicago disk jockey and radio personality Eddie Hubbard, in 1948.[3] The name of his birth father is unknown. George Smith and Eddie Hubbard were his stepfathers. Hubbard and Smith reportedly had a child together (born circa 1949)[4] before splitting up in 1958.[5] [6][7] Conrad's year of birth has been cited as 1929, however there is no evidence to support this. 1935 appears to be the correct year as per his 1940 census profile (see bottom of page); this indicates that he was a week shy of his 17th birthday when he eloped with his first wife, Joan."

The third sentence introduces George Smith but with no explanation of who he is. The fifth sentence says "Conrad's year of birth has been cited..." but it might be useful to say by who. At least that way the reader can evaluate the source. "...census profile (see bottom of page);..." get rid of the (see bottom of page) and use the profile as a source. Also do census profiles list people by their first names? I'm not familiar with the US/Chicago custom but "Conrad Robert Falk" looks to me as if it should have been "Conrad, Robert Falk" CambridgeBayWeather (talk) 19:36, 30 August 2012 (UTC)

Spectacular research. All Hallow's Wraith (talk) 09:46, 10 October 2012 (UTC)

At some point since October 2012 someone has for whatever reason removed the discussion about the discrepancy in Conrad's age. Since there is no longer any relevance to mentioning this in the header I shortened it to just say "Early years". (I was not the one who removed the age material.) 68.146.52.234 (talk) 01:03, 29 May 2015 (UTC)

It's fine -- just a case of speculative text (hidden in plain sight, anyway). Quis separabit? 01:09, 29 May 2015 (UTC)

Robert Conrad

He was born Robert Conrad Norton Falk. Father's name was Leonard Henry Falk (Bib). Leonard was American born to German parents. I am Craig Fredrick, son of Kenneth Fredrick, who was younger brother to Leonard.67.176.140.41 (talk) 17:34, 23 October 2013 (UTC)

Filmography ?

How come there is not a Filmography for Robert Conrad. 71.188.18.94 (talk) 08:02, 14 January 2014 (UTC)

The Cecil Hotel section: What in the World?!

Is this vandalism? "In February 2013, Conrad gave $500 to a British couple on vacation in Los Angeles after they were interviewed on KFI Radio, recounting that their hotel was closed after a corpse was found in the Cecil Hotel's water cistern." --And that's the entire section! What is the connection between RC and any of that? WHY did he give a British couple $500? Did he own the hotel? Or? How incoherent can you get? CousinJohn (talk) 02:07, 16 July 2015 (UTC)

I think he was just being generous. This is a reliable (BBC) link. Quis separabit? 02:22, 16 July 2015 (UTC)

Jingle All the Way

There seems to be a pointless edit war over the inclusion of this: "Robert also starred alongside Arnold Schwarzenegger in the 1996 movie Jingle All the Way."

For starters, discuss content, not editors.

Next, a few style points:

• "Conrad", not "Robert". We're discussing the subject of the article, not some guy from your third period English class.
• "Starred" is certainly subjective. I saw this, um, "film" a few years back on cable. I half watched it, at best. I remember Schwarzenegger. That was clearly a starring role. I don't recall Conrad. Whatever. Perhaps he "appeared in" or some such.
• The whole "was in project X with well-known person Y" thing always seems to be designed to pump up the subject. Either the role in the project is worth discussing or it isn't. That someone else was also in the film is not objectively important.
• IIRC, film titles are italicized.

Now sourcing. Yeah, Conrad was in the film. I don't think anyone is really challenging this. That fact is not "challenged or likely to be challenged". (Maybe "starred" is challenged? Write around it.)

Inclusion is a meaningful issue. Is this a significant aspect of Conrad's career, or is it just another role. Gee, how can we figure that out? Calling people names, surprisingly, doesn't seem to have solved the issue. (BTW, warnings on talk pages are helpful here. Start with {{subst:uw-npa1|Robert Conrad}} and work your way up as needed.) Here's a novel idea: Let's discuss it. Why should/shouldn't this be included? (Pro tip: If you discuss it and the other person doesn't, you "win".) Thoughts? - SummerPhD^v2.0 15:08, 27 October 2015 (UTC)

I think a listing in the Filmography section should be enough. Used to love this film when I was a kid, although I always thought it was called "Turbo Man"...However, it's just one of many movies he's been in. Nothing that stands out particularly. OscarL 21:03, 27 October 2015 (UTC)

WP:BLPPRIMARY and IMDB

Neither of these are [[WP:RS|reliable sources for WP:BLP info. "Avoid misuse of primary sources "Exercise extreme caution in using primary sources. Do not use trial transcripts and other court records, or other public documents, to support assertions about a living person. Do not use public records that include personal details, such as date of birth, home value, traffic citations, vehicle registrations, and home or business addresses. "Where primary-source material has been discussed by a reliable secondary source, it may be acceptable to rely on it to augment the secondary source, subject to the restrictions of this policy, no original research, and the other sourcing policies."

IMDB is even worse, as user-driven content without editorial oversight.

People who have been here a LONG time should know better. Scr★pIron^IV 18:07, 16 March 2016 (UTC)

Well, people such as you should know that IMDb has significant editorial oversight; maybe that always the case but it certainly is now. The editors there reject Wikipedia as a source for anything! Almost every article on Wikipedia related to actors, films, TV, etc has an IMDb link. Wikipedia is not unreliable in all respects but if it is then you'd better create a bot to remove each and every IMDb link. Quis separabit? 18:13, 16 March 2016 (UTC)

The very first item in WP:CITEIMDB under the Inappropriate Uses section is "IMDb content inappropriate to reference on Wikipedia: Any potentially contentious material about living persons (BLPs)." Scr★pIron^IV 18:26, 16 March 2016 (UTC)

@ScrapIronIV: Again, if IMDb is that offensive to you then create a bot and remove each and every IMDb link. And "potentially contentious material" is subjective and one doesn't know what is contentious until another editor indicates it. By the way, the same info you removed from the article as unsourced and contentious you left behind in the infobox. I added a new link anyway which confirms everything re wives and kids, anyway. Quis separabit? 18:29, 16 March 2016 (UTC)

You should add WP:OTHERSTUFFEXISTS to your list. And it's not me that finds it offensive, it is Wikipedia policy that deems it unreliable. Scr★pIron^IV 18:38, 16 March 2016 (UTC)

Oh, and thank you for pointing out my oversight. I have corrected it. Scr★pIron^IV 18:44, 16 March 2016 (UTC)

@Clibenfoart: I, for one, am positive he was born 1 March 1935 but until we can confirm it with an agreed reliable source, we have to leave it out due to certain editors' concerns and objections, although there have been no complaints filed at OTRS or Wikimedia. So to put down "1929 or 1935" in the lede is sloppy and makes no sense as there is no reliable sourcing for the 1929 year (either). Quis separabit? 18:54, 5 April 2016 (UTC)

I visited the article Robert Conrad accidentally and I wondered about his birth year (I think most readers will wonder about his birth year when there's no mention at all). I would recommend a solution like in the case of Doris Day, stating both birth years in the introduction. --Clibenfoart (talk) 19:29, 5 April 2016 (UTC)

"I would recommend a solution like in the case of Doris Day, stating both birth years in the introduction" -- not a bad idea but not feasible because if you search the topic online you will see that some sources posit 1930 as a potential year of birth. It would not be feasible to include three different years, thus, it should stay as it is. Quis separabit? 19:37, 5 April 2016 (UTC)

Jewish

Why is there no mention of the fact that he is Jewish? (Jsdbsks (talk) 00:48, 15 May 2017 (UTC))

@Jsdbsks -- Because he isn't. Don't start adding nonsense or BS to the article. Quis separabit? 01:26, 15 May 2017 (UTC)

Both his parents were Jewish. (Jsdbsks (talk) 09:08, 15 May 2017 (UTC))

@Jsdbsks: PROVE IT using a reliable source, otherwise you'll be committing vandalism and face sanctions, accordingly. Quis separabit? 12:37, 15 May 2017 (UTC)

I haven't edited the page myself, but here are some sources. Reliable? I'll leave that to other wikipedians.

(1) Encyclopedia of Jewish American Culture - https://books.google.com/books?id=wpFxDwAAQBAJ&pg=PA403&lpg=PA403&source=bl&ots=RU88ezBY60&sig=ACfU3U3xFIj9rOMh45S29RnADDNHWIu4-Q&hl=en&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwj65O7GvebgAhXym-AKHaqzDGcQ6AEwEHoECAoQAQ#v=onepage&q=

(2) Ha'aretz - https://www.haaretz.com/us-news/jewish-insider-s-daily-kickoff-february-28-2018-1.5865078

(3) Getty - https://www.gettyimages.com/detail/news-photo/robert-conrad-and-guests-during-jewish-national-funds-news-photo/115414508 Admittedly, this 3rd one could just depict a so-called righteous gentile, but the first two? Good sources, in my opinion.

tharsaile (talk) 19:57, 5 March 2019 (UTC)

Rms125a@hotmail.com, it looks like your response was to quietly remove the Jewish-Polish descent category (which you can see I did not put there, btw) a week later and call it a "category correction." That's....not cool. tharsaile (talk) 21:32, 19 March 2019 (UTC)

The Ha'aretz article also mentions Gene Barry as being Jewish (apparently true) but says Barry was in the original Star Trek series (which appears not to be true) so maybe not a good source. I'm drawing on the Barry Wikipedia article and IMDB which is not a sterling source.Ealtram (talk) 04:58, 9 February 2020 (UTC)

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