Wikipedia:Categories for discussion/Log/2024 March 22

March 22

Category:Government agencies established in 1484

• Propose splitting Category:Government agencies established in 1484 to Category:Government agencies established in the 15th century and Category:Organizations established in 1484

Nominator's rationale: Upmerge for now. There's no need to have categories by year when there's only one year in this entire century. It's not helpful for navigation. Mason (talk) 23:36, 22 March 2024 (UTC)

• Dual merge per nom. Marcocapelle (talk) 07:02, 23 March 2024 (UTC)

Category:Erythrotes stubs

• Propose deleting Category:Erythrotes stubs (edit | talk | history | links | watch | logs)

Nominator's rationale: Stub category for a genus with a single species. Too small a category to be useful Plantdrew (talk) 22:35, 22 March 2024 (UTC)

• Delete per nom, delete the template too. I have added the only article to Category:Insect stubs. Marcocapelle (talk) 07:05, 23 March 2024 (UTC)

Template:Erythrotes-stub

• Propose deleting Template:Erythrotes-stub (edit | talk | history | links | watch | logs)
  

Nominator's rationale: Stub template for a genus with a single species. Too small a category to be warranted Plantdrew (talk) 22:34, 22 March 2024 (UTC)

• Delete per above. Marcocapelle (talk) 07:06, 23 March 2024 (UTC)

Category:Exiled politicians

• Propose merging Category:Exiled Burkinabé politicians to Category:Burkinabé politicians and Category:Exiled politicians
• Propose merging Category:Exiled South Sudanese politicians to Category:Exiled politicians and Category:South Sudanese politicians
• Propose merging Category:Exiled Finnish politicians to Category:Exiled politicians and Category:Finnish exiles
• Propose merging Category:Exiled Sudanese politicians to Category:Exiled politicians and Category:Sudanese politicians

Nominator's rationale: Upmgerge for now. There's no need to have just one (or two) politicians in these categories. Mason (talk) 20:21, 22 March 2024 (UTC)

• Support in principle per nom, but only merge to Category:Exiled politicians because the articles are already in a subcategory of the other target. Marcocapelle (talk) 07:10, 23 March 2024 (UTC)

Category:Languages officially written in Indic scripts

• Propose merging Category:Languages officially written in Indic scripts to Category:Languages written in Indic scripts

Nominator's rationale: The scripts are mostly not so much official as just conventional, and I don't think the distinction is particularly useful. PepperBeast (talk) 17:23, 22 March 2024 (UTC)

• Merge per nom. I have nominated the target for speedy renaming to Category:Languages written in Brahmic scripts. Marcocapelle (talk) 07:16, 23 March 2024 (UTC)

Category:Aphex Twin songs

• Propose renaming Category:Aphex Twin songs to Category:Aphex Twin tracks

Nominator's rationale: (Or maybe "Aphex Twin compositions".) Strictly speaking, songs contain singing. Aphex Twin tracks have no singing, or no singing in the traditional sense. For example, it is not really accurate to describe Avril 14, a piano instrumental, as a "song". Popcornfud (talk) 17:07, 22 March 2024 (UTC)

Lean oppose. Don't other categories have non-singing songs in them? I don't think it's helpful for navigation to make the distinction between songs that contain vocal tracks and those that do not. Mason (talk) 20:26, 22 March 2024 (UTC)

Just for clarity, I'm not proposing we create separate tracks for vocal and instrumental Aphex Twin tracks, just keeping a single category and renaming it. (There are very few, if any, Aphex Twins that could really be called "songs" in my view, and I also suspect the habit of calling non-vocal tracks "songs" tends to be an Americanism, but that's probably by the by.) Popcornfud (talk) 21:14, 22 March 2024 (UTC)

• Comment, Category:Aphex Twin compositions would well fit as a subcategory of Category:Compositions by composer. Marcocapelle (talk) 07:19, 23 March 2024 (UTC)

  That would work for me. Mason (talk) 20:06, 23 March 2024 (UTC)

  Would that not also be redundant to Category:Songs written by Aphex Twin? Starcheerspeaksnewslostwars^{Talk to me} 15:35, 25 March 2024 (UTC)

Category:Grand Crosses of the Order of Vasa

• Propose renaming Category:Grand Crosses of the Order of Vasa to Category:Commanders Grand Cross of the Order of Vasa

Nominator's rationale: The proper name for this grade of this order. Richiepip (talk) 15:18, 22 March 2024 (UTC)

Category:Academics of the College of the Resurrection

• Propose renaming Category:Academics of the College of the Resurrection to Category:Staff of the College of the Resurrection

Nominator's rationale: To match other staff categories in Category:Bible colleges, seminaries and theological colleges in England Gaia Octavia Agrippa ^Talk 14:14, 22 March 2024 (UTC)

Comment. But the parent category is Academics by university or college in England. Staff has a *very* different meaning. From looking at the contents, these people are academics. If anything, I think that other categories should be renamed to reflect that these folks are academic staff/faculty. Mason (talk) 20:29, 22 March 2024 (UTC)

• Oppose per Mason. Marcocapelle (talk) 07:24, 23 March 2024 (UTC)

Category:Children of Ottoman sultans

• Propose renaming Category:Children of Ottoman sultans to Category:Ottoman royalty

Nominator's rationale: Not all of the princes and princesses included in this list are children of the sultan, some are grandchildren. Векочел (talk) 14:24, 14 March 2024 (UTC)

• Merge per nom. It is also a redudant category layer with only two subcategories. Marcocapelle (talk) 16:21, 14 March 2024 (UTC)
• Oppose The fact that you mentioned is good reason to keep the category, it should be used for specifically children of Sultans, illegitimate ones too.★Trekker (talk) 18:58, 14 March 2024 (UTC)

• No, per WP:OVERLAPCAT, it would largely overlap with the existing princes and princesses categories. Marcocapelle (talk) 07:09, 20 March 2024 (UTC)

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Qwerfjkltalk 13:48, 22 March 2024 (UTC)

Category:Ice hockey people by state

• Propose merging Category:Ice hockey people from Tennessee to Category:Sportspeople from Tennessee
• Propose merging Category:Ice hockey people from South Carolina to Category:Sportspeople from South Carolina
• Propose merging Category:Ice hockey people from Delaware to Category:Sportspeople from Delaware
• Propose merging Category:Ice hockey people from Hawaii to Category:Sportspeople from Hawaii

Nominator's rationale: Only one article each; merge, for now, with parent category. Omnis Scientia (talk) 15:28, 14 March 2024 (UTC)

Oppose The primary category tree for these articles is the ice hockey people tree and American Ice hockey people by state. Merging to the generic sportspeople category would remove the articles from the more important category tree. DJSasso (talk) 01:19, 16 March 2024 (UTC)

• It is subjective if the subcategories by state are more important than e.g. Category:American men's ice hockey defensemen which is where the articles remain part of in any case. Marcocapelle (talk) 19:46, 16 March 2024 (UTC)

• The two category trees serve different purposes. The American ice hockey players is based on their international playing status/nationality. The other tree is based on where they are born. They portray two different sets of information which yes most often overlaps but doesn't always. -DJSasso (talk) 18:55, 22 March 2024 (UTC)

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Qwerfjkltalk 13:48, 22 March 2024 (UTC)

• Oppose. Part of the broader hierarchy. 121.202.28.169 (talk) 11:57, 24 March 2024 (UTC)
• Oppose per above.--User:Namiba 17:06, 24 March 2024 (UTC)

Category:Ice hockey people from Kansas

• Propose merging Category:Ice hockey people from Kansas to Category:Sportspeople from Kansas

Nominator's rationale: Omnis Scientia (talk) 15:37, 14 March 2024 (UTC)

Oppose The primary category tree for these articles is the ice hockey people tree and American Ice hockey people by state. Merging to the generic sportspeople category would remove the articles from the more important category tree. DJSasso (talk) 01:20, 16 March 2024 (UTC)

• It is subjective if the subcategories by state are more important than e.g. Category:American men's ice hockey defensemen which is where the articles remain part of in any case. Marcocapelle (talk) 19:46, 16 March 2024 (UTC)

• The two category trees serve different purposes. The American ice hockey players is based on their international playing status/nationality. The other tree is based on where they are born. They portray two different sets of information which yes most often overlaps but doesn't always. -DJSasso (talk) 18:55, 22 March 2024 (UTC)

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Qwerfjkltalk 13:48, 22 March 2024 (UTC)

• Oppose as above. 121.202.28.169 (talk) 11:57, 24 March 2024 (UTC)
• Oppose per Djsasso's argument. Sometimes, small categories are necessary.--User:Namiba 17:06, 24 March 2024 (UTC)

Category:Moroccan educators by century

• Propose merging Category:Moroccan educators by century to Category:Moroccan educators

Nominator's rationale: Upmerge for now. This category only has one century in it. Mason (talk) 04:20, 6 March 2024 (UTC)

• Merge per nom. Marcocapelle (talk) 06:15, 6 March 2024 (UTC)
• Comment Added Category:21st-century Moroccan educators. Most countries can manage two century categories unless htey have ceased to exist. Hugo999 (talk) 22:20, 7 March 2024 (UTC)

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Qwerfjkltalk 19:36, 14 March 2024 (UTC)

• Just two century subcategories can sit perfectly well in Category:Moroccan educators, it does not help here to have an extra category layer. 09:09, 15 March 2024 (UTC) — Preceding unsigned comment added by Marcocapelle (talk • contribs)

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Qwerfjkltalk 13:46, 22 March 2024 (UTC)

Category:12th-century Danish historians

• Propose merging Category:12th-century Danish historians to Category:12th-century Danish people and Category:Danish historians and Category:12th-century historians
• Propose merging Category:13th-century Danish historians to Category:13th-century Danish people and Category:Danish historians and Category:13th-century historians

Nominator's rationale: Upmerge for now there's only one or two people in these categories, which is unhelpful for navigation. Mason (talk) 01:34, 6 March 2024 (UTC)

• Merge per nom. Marcocapelle (talk) 06:17, 6 March 2024 (UTC)
• Comment. Agree, except that the categories should be merged into Category:12th-century Danish writers and Category:13th-century Danish writers etc. And other categories eg Category:16th-century Danish historians should be subcategories of Category:16th-century Danish writers (or Category:16th-century Danish non-fiction writers if the subcategory is warranted). Writers by centuy is a catch-all category, like Category:19th-century Danish musicians which is a “catch-all” category for Danish composers, pianists, violinists etc where subcategories are not warranted. Hugo999 (talk) 22:14, 7 March 2024 (UTC)

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Qwerfjkltalk 19:36, 14 March 2024 (UTC)

• In principle I do not object to Category:12th-century Danish writers and Category:13th-century Danish writers, except I do not know if they can be populated well enough. Marcocapelle (talk) 09:08, 15 March 2024 (UTC)

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Qwerfjkltalk 13:45, 22 March 2024 (UTC)

Category:Generals from Kavajë

• Propose splitting Category:Generals from Kavajë to Category:Military personnel from Kavajë and Category:Albanian generals

Nominator's rationale: Dual upmerge for now. There's only two generals in here, which isn't helpful for navigation. Mason (talk) 13:21, 22 March 2024 (UTC)

• Dual merge per nom. Marcocapelle (talk) 14:16, 22 March 2024 (UTC)

Category:Buildings damaged by the 2023 Marrakesh-Safi earthquake

• Propose renaming Category:Buildings damaged by the 2023 Marrakesh-Safi earthquake to Category:Buildings damaged by the 2023 Al Haouz earthquake.

Nominator's rationale: Per main article move. Article's name is now 2023 Al Haouz earthquake. Main category is nominated below. WikiCleanerMan (talk) 12:31, 22 March 2024 (UTC)

• Rename per nom. Marcocapelle (talk) 14:17, 22 March 2024 (UTC)

Category:2023 Marrakesh-Safi earthquake

• Propose renaming Category:2023 Marrakesh-Safi earthquake to Category:2023 Al Haouz earthquake

Nominator's rationale: Per main article move. Article's name is now 2023 Al Haouz earthquake. WikiCleanerMan (talk) 12:30, 22 March 2024 (UTC)

• Delete, redundant category layer, there is nothing in the category but the main article and the above subcategory. If kept it is a simple matter of WP:C2D. Marcocapelle (talk) 14:19, 22 March 2024 (UTC)

Category:Auckland rugby league clubs

• Propose renaming Category:Auckland rugby league clubs to Category:Rugby league teams in Auckland

Nominator's rationale: Per its parents Category:Rugby league teams in New Zealand and Category:Rugby league teams by populated place, and per all the other subcats of the latter. Grutness...wha? 11:46, 22 March 2024 (UTC)

Category:Yagi clan

• Propose deleting Category:Yagi clan (edit | talk | history | links | watch | logs)

Nominator's rationale: delete, only two articles and they are not really about the clan. The two articles are also directly connected in Category:Historic Sites of Japan. Marcocapelle (talk) 06:47, 22 March 2024 (UTC)

Category:Indian independence activists from Bangladesh

• Propose merging Category:Indian independence activists from Bangladesh to Category:Indian independence activists from Bengal
• Propose merging Category:Indian independence activists from West Bengal to Category:Indian independence activists from Bengal added a day later

Nominator's rationale: merge, Bangladesh did not exist for a long time after these people were independence activists and West Bengal at least not before the independence of India. Marcocapelle (talk) 06:22, 22 March 2024 (UTC)

Support per nom Mason (talk) 20:07, 23 March 2024 (UTC)

Category:Colonial United States (French)

• Propose merging Category:Colonial United States (French) to Category:New France

Nominator's rationale: rename per article New France. I have not listed this at speedy in case I might oversee something. Marcocapelle (talk) 05:58, 22 March 2024 (UTC)

• Comment if we are divvying up the territory of the now-United States of America into its portions by colonial master, then this could be Category:French colonies on the territory of the United States or Category:Portions of New France on the territory of the United States or somesuch. Ofcourse most of this territory is Louisiana, New France (bought during the Louisiana Purchase) ... Upper Louisiana (north of the Missouri, west of the Mississippi and west of Lake Michigan, south of Lake Superior) and fr:Pays des Illinois (Illinois Country, New France or Illinois Territory, New France or Illinois, New France ... Michigan lower peninsula and Illinois; east of the Mississippi and Ohio Valley, New France or Ohio Territory, New France or simply Ohio, New France (south of Lake Erie and Ontario down to the Tennessee, west of the Appalachians, east of the Mississippi) ... ) (conquered during the French and Indian Wars)... So those might be categories Category:Lousiana, New France and Category:Ohio Valley, New France or Category:Ohio Territory, New France or simply Category:Ohio, New France and Category:Illinois Country, New France or Category:Illinois Territory, New France or simply Category:Illinois, New France -- 65.92.247.66 (talk) 05:33, 23 March 2024 (UTC)

Category:21st-century Danish metalsmiths

• Propose merging Category:21st-century Danish metalsmiths to Category:21st-century Danish artisans and Category:21st-century metalsmiths and Category:Danish metalsmiths
• Propose merging Category:18th-century Danish metalsmiths to Category:18th-century metalsmiths and Category:18th-century Danish artisans and Category:Danish metalsmiths

Nominator's rationale: upmerge for now. There's only one page in each, which is unhelpful for navigation. Mason (talk) 05:53, 6 March 2024 (UTC)

• Just dual merge, not to Category:Danish metalsmiths because the articles are already in Category:Danish goldsmiths or Category:Danish coppersmiths. Marcocapelle (talk) 06:02, 6 March 2024 (UTC)
• Keep I have added a couple of new articles to both categories. The number of pages is now similar to that of the 19th-century category, which wasn't listed for deletion, so I assume that is enough. But a few more articles will follow within the next couple of days.Ramblersen2 (talk) 12:09, 7 March 2024 (UTC)

• Now keep the 18th century but delete the 21st century. The latter consists of articles about people who were mainly active in the 20th century, per WP:OVERLAPCAT. Marcocapelle (talk) 12:43, 7 March 2024 (UTC)

  I have now added four new biographies and weeded out a couple of the oldest people who did not seem to ghave been very active after the turn of the century. The four new biographies are all about people who are either still active or have been so until fairly recently.Ramblersen2 (talk) 11:41, 11 March 2024 (UTC)

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Qwerfjkltalk 19:33, 14 March 2024 (UTC)

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Relisting comment: Category:21st-century Danish metalsmiths has seven members as of relisting; Category:18th-century Danish metalsmiths has five.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, HouseBlaster (talk · he/him) 04:24, 22 March 2024 (UTC)

• The nomination is meanwhile entirely moot. Marcocapelle (talk) 05:48, 22 March 2024 (UTC)

Category:Software licenses

• Propose renaming Category:Software licenses to Category:Software licensing

Nominator's rationale: Seems to be a topic category not a set category. * Pppery * _{it has begun...} 04:02, 22 March 2024 (UTC)

• Rename per nom. Marcocapelle (talk) 05:53, 22 March 2024 (UTC)

Category:French forts in the United States

• Propose renaming Category:French forts in the United States to Category:French forts in New France

Nominator's rationale: This seems anachronistic. These forts were not "in the United States" when they were built and only became so later on. User:Namiba 02:33, 22 March 2024 (UTC)

• Rename per nom, or perhaps simply Category:Forts in New France. Category:French forts in Canada may be nominated as well. Marcocapelle (talk) 05:54, 22 March 2024 (UTC)
  • • Comment if these forts still existed at the time Canada was established, then the category is correct. And there was also the colony of Canada, New France and colony of United Canadas, British North America -- 65.92.247.66 (talk) 05:03, 23 March 2024 (UTC)
• Comment if these forts still existed at the time that the USA took over the territory, then they are correct. Such as many forts acquired in the Louisiana Purchase. Or any ruins/museums that still exist today -- 65.92.247.66 (talk) 05:05, 23 March 2024 (UTC)

Category:Dallas Hilltoppers football seasons

• Propose merging Category:Dallas Hilltoppers football seasons to Category:Dallas Hilltoppers football

Nominator's rationale: Category lacks subjects and does not aid navigation. Let'srun (talk) 02:05, 22 March 2024 (UTC)

• Merge for now with only two articles, but presumably dual merge also to Category:College football seasons. Marcocapelle (talk) 06:01, 22 March 2024 (UTC)
  • dual merge also to Category:College football seasons – Huh? Why the heck would we want to merge a mere two of 30,000+ college football season articles to create a brand-new category called "College football seasons" – that makes absolutely zero sense. BeanieFan11 (talk) 14:31, 22 March 2024 (UTC)
    • It can be populated with many more articles when all subcategories with one or two articles are merged. Marcocapelle (talk) 07:33, 23 March 2024 (UTC)
      • That still makes no sense. If I wanted to find seasons of this team, I would look up "Dallas Hilltoppers football seasons", not a broad "College football seasons" category that has the potential for hundreds of thousands of entries! Not to mention such a category would be missing tens of thousands of articles for programs which have more than a few seasons with articles. It just doesn't make sense. BeanieFan11 (talk) 18:42, 25 March 2024 (UTC)

Category:Dallas Crusaders seasons

• Propose deleting Category:Dallas Crusaders seasons (edit | talk | history | links | watch | logs)

Nominator's rationale: Only one subcategory. Let'srun (talk) 02:04, 22 March 2024 (UTC)

• Delete per nom. Marcocapelle (talk) 06:04, 22 March 2024 (UTC)

Category:19th-century Roman Catholic church buildings in Hong Kong

• Propose splitting Category:19th-century Roman Catholic church buildings in Hong Kong to Category:19th-century Roman Catholic church buildings in China and Category:Roman Catholic churches in Hong Kong and Category:19th-century churches in Hong Kong
• Propose splitting Category:20th-century Roman Catholic church buildings in Hong Kong to Category:20th-century churches in Hong Kong and Category:20th-century Roman Catholic church buildings in China and Category:Roman Catholic churches in Hong Kong

Nominator's rationale: Upmerge for now. There's no need to diffuse by denomination of church. Mason (talk) 00:12, 22 March 2024 (UTC)

• Triple merge per nom. @Smasongarrison: for the first one, Category:Roman Catholic churches in Hong Kong has been mentioned twice as a merge target, that is probably a mistake. Marcocapelle (talk) 06:12, 22 March 2024 (UTC)

  oops. good catch! Fixed now. Should have said Category:19th-century churches in Hong Kong Mason (talk) 13:18, 22 March 2024 (UTC)

• Oppose upmerging to the Chinese categories. Items of dependent territories don't get categorised to categories for the metropolitan. 185.104.63.112 (talk) 20:36, 22 March 2024 (UTC)

• I would not object to upmerging to the Chinese categories. Hong Kong has become part of China even if it has a bit of autonomy. Marcocapelle (talk) 07:57, 24 March 2024 (UTC)

• This isn't relevant. There are dependencies which are possessions of different sovereign nations and got little or no autonomy. 188.211.233.131 (talk) 14:10, 26 March 2024 (UTC)

• Agree. What matters is the fact that Hong Kong is now part of China. Marcocapelle (talk) 19:40, 26 March 2024 (UTC)

• No it isn't part of that in the same way like provinces or province-level municipalities. It's just like Curaçao and Sint Maarten that are not part of the Netherlands in the same manner as Bonaire, Sint Eustatius and Saba are. 46.229.243.187 (talk) 08:07, 27 March 2024 (UTC)

• Agree. 46.229.243.187 (talk) 08:07, 27 March 2024 (UTC)

• Keep and populate. 188.211.233.131 (talk) 14:10, 26 March 2024 (UTC)

• Populate with what? If there are any articles that belong here, feel free to add them right away. Marcocapelle (talk) 19:42, 26 March 2024 (UTC)

• Keep. 46.229.243.187 (talk) 08:07, 27 March 2024 (UTC)

Category:Major League Baseball players with one career hit

• Propose deleting Category:Major League Baseball players with one career hit (edit | talk | history | links | watch | logs)

Nominator's rationale: Per Arbitrary Cat User:Namiba 00:08, 22 March 2024 (UTC)

• Delete per nom. Marcocapelle (talk) 06:13, 22 March 2024 (UTC)
• Keep: Defining characteristic. Let'srun (talk) 19:25, 22 March 2024 (UTC)

  How is it defining? This seems very arbitrary to me. Why not two career hits? Mason (talk) 20:34, 22 March 2024 (UTC)

• Keep per Letsrun. One hit only players are talked about in media, two not so much. -DJSasso (talk) 14:50, 25 March 2024 (UTC)

Trivia is often discussed in the media. WP:CATDEF says "The defining characteristics of an article's topic are central to categorizing the article. A defining characteristic is one that reliable sources commonly and consistently refer to[1] in describing the topic, such as the nationality of a person or the geographic location of a place." Does the fact that a player managed only a single career hit rise to this level?--User:Namiba 15:18, 25 March 2024 (UTC)