Wikipedia:Redirects for discussion/Log/2024 January 3

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January 3

This is a list of redirects that have been proposed for deletion or other action on January 3, 2024.

Yeah! Holy Stones

• Yeah! Holy Stones → Bright (American band)  (talk · links · history · stats)     [ Closure: keep/retarget/delete ] 

Created as a redirect to an album, album turned into a redirect to the artist page. There is no mention of the song at the artist page and therefore no assistance to navigation at present. Richhoncho (talk) 23:51, 3 January 2024 (UTC)

2004 Indian Ocean earthquake.

• 2004 Indian Ocean earthquake. → 2004 Indian Ocean earthquake and tsunami  (talk · links · history · stats)     [ Closure: keep/retarget/delete ] 

There are many redirects to this event and though redirects are cheap, the one with a trailing period is likely not useful. Ost (talk) 23:17, 3 January 2024 (UTC)

Delete - Even if a reader wanted to search the article, it most likely will auto-suggest title in searchbar halfway through typing Dora the Axe-plorer (explore) 08:32, 4 January 2024 (UTC)

CeCe (album)

• CeCe (album) → CeCe Peniston  (talk · links · history · stats)     [ Closure: keep/retarget/delete ] 

Does not appear to exist, or at the very least does not appear to be mentioned at target or CeCe Peniston discography. Might be referring to CeCe Peniston (EP Live) which was originally released in 2008 but had a CD release in 2011, matching the claim at CeCe (disambiguation). Still, the name doesn't match up, and that is a live EP, not necessarily an album, so there's no guarantee it's referring to the same thing. Also worth noting that this redirect was created in 2016 while the live EP's article was started in 2011, so if this were referring to that then I question why it wasn't targeted there in the first place. Could also potentially be confused with the Ciara EP CiCi. Without a guarantee that this exists or what target would be most appropriate, I think deletion and removal of the disambiguation page entry makes the most sense. QuietHere (talk | contributions) 20:12, 3 January 2024 (UTC)

Mr. Mohamed Zahir Hussain

• Mr. Mohamed Zahir Hussain → Mohamed Zahir Hussain  (talk · links · history · stats)     [ Closure: keep/retarget/delete ] 

No need for a redirect with "Mr." in the title, and COSTLY tells us we should not keep redirects like this which could be added for all bios. ‡ El cid, el campeador ^talk 16:41, 3 January 2024 (UTC)

• Keep as harmless. We shouldn't routinely create these sorts of redirects, but deleting them once they have been created is pointless at best and harmful at worst (someone found it useful to create, there may be external links). Thryduulf (talk) 20:37, 3 January 2024 (UTC)

  Actually, they are not harmless, because somebody will see some of them and think that all the missing Mr/Mrs/Mz/Ms (with and without fullstops) need to be added. That's a lot of data being used for something which could be considered bordering on vandalism. Let's rid WP of bad examples and practices. Richhoncho (talk) 00:29, 4 January 2024 (UTC)

  I've been dealing with redirects for about 15 years now and in that time not once has anybody ever provided any evidence at all that the existence of one redirect leads to the mass creation of other similar redirects - unless you can it's just worthless fear-mongering. I'd also like to see some evidence that creating redirects like this is "bordering on vandalism" and evidence of how the creation of redirects that take people to the content they are looking for is "bad practice". Thryduulf (talk) 01:53, 4 January 2024 (UTC)

  Not fear mongering. Have a look at this example of redirects on one artist page], contributed by an editor who has failed to grasp the meaning of 'avoided redirect' and created all them at the same time. There were other editors, who created every variant of a song title name, misspelled, unnecessary disambiguation etc and I am happy to show you various older examples.Most of these editors have stopped now because I have tagged appropriately and hopefully they realise that unnecessary title pages are not helping WP.

  BTW, A2R is growing by about 2000 members per month (nowhere near all my work!), which is appropriate to this discussion. Cheers. Richhoncho (talk) 10:57, 4 January 2024 (UTC)

  Redirects from song titles are exactly the sort of redirects that we want Wikipedia to have. Redirects from plausible misspellings are highly beneficial to the project. Unnecessary disambiguations vary between harmless and very useful depending on how likely other topics are to have that title. None of this is evidence that redirects of either the type under discussion here or the type in your examples (and they are not quite the same thing) are harmful. Thryduulf (talk) 12:26, 4 January 2024 (UTC)

  We fundamentally disagree. A title is a title, it conveys no special meaning. A listing of every song title that has appeared on every album, with or without errors is hardly beneficial to an encyclopedia of any description. Render unto All Music that which is All Music's. In the example I have given, none, or few, of the song titles were mentioned in the target. What benefit?

  If I was to create redirects with Mr etc for every individual it would be considered vandalism, quite rightly, but here you are defending vandalism.

  A little consideration of what we fill the bucket with is no bad thing! Richhoncho (talk) 12:54, 4 January 2024 (UTC)

  There is no (practical) limit on the number of page titles that can exist (c.f. WP:NOTPAPER), there is no bucket to fill. The existence of one title does not impact our ability to have other titles. Thryduulf (talk) 13:09, 4 January 2024 (UTC)

  Ah but there is. Convolution is not a benefit to WP. Nor are unrequired redirects, but I accept your unwritten appreciation of approving vandalism.

  This convo is over, you will now read what I have written and appreciate that I did not oppose your keep vote, but pointed out the damage that such votes would do. But if you cannot nor will not consider all options then I am wasting my time. Happy editing. Richhoncho (talk) 13:23, 4 January 2024 (UTC)

Mr Mohammad Nematzadeh

• Mr Mohammad Nematzadeh → Mohammad Reza Nematzadeh  (talk · links · history · stats)     [ Closure: keep/retarget/delete ] 

No need for a redirect with "Mr." in the title, and COSTLY tells us we should not keep redirects like this which could be added for all bios. Page was originally misnamed and this is apparently the leftover redirect. Should be purged. ‡ El cid, el campeador ^talk 16:41, 3 January 2024 (UTC)

• Keep as harmless. We shouldn't routinely create these sorts of redirects, but deleting them once they have been created is pointless at best and harmful at worst (someone found it useful to create, there may be external links). Thryduulf (talk) 20:37, 3 January 2024 (UTC)

Mr. Mohammed Ahmed Al-Odaini

• Mr. Mohammed Ahmed Al-Odaini → Al Nassr FC  (talk · links · history · stats)     [ Closure: keep/retarget/delete ] 

No need for a redirect with "Mr." in the title, and COSTLY tells us we should not keep redirects like this which could be added for all bios. Mohammed Ahmed Al-Odaini without the title redirects to same target. ‡ El cid, el campeador ^talk 16:40, 3 January 2024 (UTC)

• Keep as harmless. We shouldn't routinely create these sorts of redirects, but deleting them once they have been created is pointless at best and harmful at worst (someone found it useful to create, there may be external links). Thryduulf (talk) 20:37, 3 January 2024 (UTC)

The fact that someone used "Mr." is far more likely to signify a basic misunderstanding of naming conventions than it is to signify any usefulness. There may be external links to -any- redirect, that is not a basis to keep a redirect without more. And it is not harmless, because someone seeing these redirects may very well assume it is normal and create similar redirects. We do not redirects at Mr. Joe Biden or Mr. Napoleon Bonaparte for a reason. ‡ El cid, el campeador ^talk 21:55, 3 January 2024 (UTC)

If someone creates similar redirects, and something thinks the effort of nominating them here is a good use of their and other editors' time (hint: it really isn't) then I will recommend keeping them for the exact same reason as this one: they will be harmless and we don't redirects unless they are actively harmful in some way. Thryduulf (talk) 01:55, 4 January 2024 (UTC)

Redirects which do not provide any help to readers either for navigation or otherwise have no reason to exist. Maybe I'm an idiot for nominating these, but I still maintain they serve no purpose. With that being said, we are all entitled to our opinions and I acknowledge yours. Cheers ‡ El cid, el campeador ^talk 22:22, 4 January 2024 (UTC)

Concent

• Concent → Consent  (talk · links · history · stats)     [ Closure: keep/retarget/delete ] 

This is a strange redirect to have. I totally understand why someone might want it to lead to Consent, but concent is also one letter off from "content", "convent", "concept", or "concert", and three letters off from "concentric". Further more, wikt:concent states that this is an archaic synonym for harmony. Currently, my opinion is either to retarget to wikt:concent, or weak delete as too confusing and ambiguous to have a satisfying target, but I'd be open to other opinions. Duckmather (talk) 15:40, 3 January 2024 (UTC)

• Keep - I strongly disagree with the rationale here. In my opinion, the redirect was made due to the phonetic similarities between c and s, rather than the word merely being one letter different from another word. Secondly, the proposed retargeting to Wiktionary suggests a lack of credible targets, which is probably what allowed the redirect to be created initially. A simple hatnote "redirects here" should be sufficient to rectify this. Respublik (talk) 17:48, 3 January 2024 (UTC)
• Keep. While the first couple of pages of Google hits are dictionary definitions and proper nouns (multiple organisations, none appear notable), once you get to actual uses of the word it is exclusively people meaning "consent". The homonym makes this a very significantly more plausible misspelling than any other single letter error (especially as I can't find anybody actually making such errors). Thryduulf (talk) 20:43, 3 January 2024 (UTC)
• Delete per nom. In addition, the redirect seems to have the strongest connection in its definition to "concert" given that both can be about music. I think deletion is best over redirecting to Wiktionary in this case because at the end of the day, this redirect is a one-letter misspelling for several words. Steel1943 (talk) 15:21, 4 January 2024 (UTC)

2023 Santa Barbara International Film Festival

• 2023 Santa Barbara International Film Festival → Santa Barbara International Film Festival  (talk · links · history · stats)     [ Closure: keep/retarget/delete ] 

I had a brief edit war with Rickyurs over this redirect. It was created when Rickyurs moved article now at 2024 Santa Barbara International Film Festival to this title. He nominated it for speedy deletion under G6, but I declined his request because a separate article could be written about the 2023 instance. Rickyurs undid my decline, stating Associated talk page is still not resolved. It is better if it is deleted. Hence to RfD I go. Duckmather (talk) 15:38, 3 January 2024 (UTC)

Camille Camille

• Camille Camille → Camille (violinist)  (talk · links · history · stats)     [ Closure: keep/retarget/delete ] 

Suggesting deletion. The article was previously under this incorrect duplicated name. She is referred to as simply "Camille" in Estonian media. The duplicated name may have come from the discogs.com page linked in the article, possibly originating from someone entering "Camille" to both first name and surname fields somewhere. Unfortunately the error has spread to Wikipedias in various languages and at least one Eurovision Song Contest trivia fansite. Abc347834 (talk) 11:46, 27 December 2023 (UTC)

Edited to add: there are numerous links to the redirect, which will need to be changed before deletion. Abc347834 (talk) 11:51, 27 December 2023 (UTC)

Links to the redirect have now been fixed. Abc347834 (talk) 12:15, 27 December 2023 (UTC)

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Relisting comment: The page was at the original title for over 3.5 years. Thoughts?
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, ✗plicit 14:27, 3 January 2024 (UTC)

• Keep per {{R from move}} and the evidence that this name is in widespread use. Where and why the error originated is irrelevant, what matters is that someone could see this name being used and use it to search for information on Wikipedia. Thryduulf (talk) 20:45, 3 January 2024 (UTC)

Soul Heaven

• Soul Heaven → UK Singles Chart  (talk · links · history · stats)     [ Closure: keep/retarget/delete ]

It is not helpful to redirect to a target that has no mention of the subject in question. These redirects do imply that these songs charted, so they may be notable per WP:NSONG. Deletion to encourage article creation may be desirable. -- Tavix ^(talk) 21:24, 21 December 2023 (UTC)

Comment: "Soul Heaven" could also refer to Heaven. No opinion on most of the rest. Duckmather (talk) 18:20, 28 December 2023 (UTC)

• Weak retarget to Osunlade#Discography where a compilation of the same name is listed, otherwise delete per nom. CycloneYoris ^talk! 08:12, 31 December 2023 (UTC)

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Jay 💬 14:26, 3 January 2024 (UTC)

Peakin'

• Peakin' → UK Singles Chart  (talk · links · history · stats)     [ Closure: keep/retarget/delete ]

It is not helpful to redirect to a target that has no mention of the subject in question. These redirects do imply that these songs charted, so they may be notable per WP:NSONG. Deletion to encourage article creation may be desirable. -- Tavix ^(talk) 21:24, 21 December 2023 (UTC)

Comment: Peaking is a disambiguation page and could be a plausible target (and the song could be a plausible entry on the dab as well). No opinion on most of the rest. Duckmather (talk) 18:25, 28 December 2023 (UTC)

• Weak retarget to Peakin' at the Beacon as an {{R from incomplete name}}, and possibly add a hatnote to the DAB. CycloneYoris ^talk! 08:27, 31 December 2023 (UTC)

I would oppose this unless there is evidence of Peakin' at the Beacon being referred to in this manner. -- Tavix ^(talk) 23:01, 31 December 2023 (UTC)

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Jay 💬 14:18, 3 January 2024 (UTC)

Mr Devil

• Mr Devil → UK Singles Chart  (talk · links · history · stats)     [ Closure: keep/retarget/delete ]

It is not helpful to redirect to a target that has no mention of the subject in question. These redirects do imply that these songs charted, so they may be notable per WP:NSONG. Deletion to encourage article creation may be desirable. -- Tavix ^(talk) 21:24, 21 December 2023 (UTC)

Comment: "Mr. Devil" could also refer to the Devil. No opinion on the rest. Duckmather (talk) 18:14, 28 December 2023 (UTC)

• Delete per nom as vague and unhelpful, and also implausible due to the lack of punctuation. CycloneYoris ^talk! 08:33, 31 December 2023 (UTC)
• Dabable? (at the title Mr. Devil) There are Ken Daneyko, Bangalla#Citizens, and Rabbit-Proof Fence most notably. J947 ‡ ^edits 20:31, 31 December 2023 (UTC)
• Disambiguate the DEVIL is also sometimes addressed in this manner -- 65.92.247.66 (talk) 07:10, 3 January 2024 (UTC)

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Jay 💬 14:14, 3 January 2024 (UTC)

• Delete - target is unhelpful and redirecting this to Devil would be COSTLY. Redirects with Mr., Ms., etc could be added for essentially every bio. However, these are unnecessary and unhelpful. Unless there is some prevalent usage, this should be deleted altogether. ‡ El cid, el campeador ^talk 16:44, 3 January 2024 (UTC)
• Retarget to Ken Daneyko as it is a known moniker (minus the .). Bangalla#Citizens and Rabbit-Proof Fence also have Mr. Devil's but they seem to be only notable in-universe --Lenticel ^(talk) 00:14, 4 January 2024 (UTC)

Ape vertebral column

• Ape vertebral column → Vertebral column  (talk · links · history · stats)     [ Closure: keep/retarget/delete ] 

"Ape" is not mentioned in the target article, leaving it so readers searching this term most likely will not find the precise information they may be looking for when searching this phrase. Steel1943 (talk) 13:52, 3 January 2024 (UTC)

• Delete closest target seems to be Primate#Anatomy_and_physiology but it doesn't have enough info on the subject. --Lenticel ^(talk) 00:16, 4 January 2024 (UTC)

Upsilon1 Cephei

• Upsilon1 Cephei → HR 7955  (talk · links · history · stats)     [ Closure: keep/retarget/delete ] 

It has been confirmed that “Upsilon¹ Cephei” was a mistake made by Allen (see Talk:HR 7955 for reference). So I would propose deleting this article. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Astronomical Editor (talk • contribs) 08:21, 3 January 2024 (UTC)

• Keep if this is an error found in a reliable source, especially a standard reference work, then that suggests that people will search for information under that name making the redirect useful. Being a {{R from move}} also indicates that the redirect should be kept. Thryduulf (talk) 20:48, 3 January 2024 (UTC)

ILO Convention No 192

• ILO Convention No 192 → International Labour Organization  (talk · links · history · stats)     [ Closure: keep/retarget/delete ] 

Delete. There is no Convention 192; it does not exist. This was orginally made as a redirect to Convention 182 (Worst Forms of Child Labour), but subsequently changed to a redirect to the ILO. Both are confusing, since redirecting to the ILO implies it might actually be something in existence, while 182 is clearly not 192 and a redirect could imply an equivalance, rather than a mistaken entry, which I do not see as a common problem. Furthermore, the next convention will be numbered 192, so at the point the new Convention is adopted (not likely for a number of years) a new article can be created. Regards, Goldsztajn (talk) 05:03, 3 January 2024 (UTC)

Arkose (software)

• Arkose (software) → Edubuntu  (talk · links · history · stats)     [ Closure: keep/retarget/delete ] 

Not at all included. Hildeoc (talk) 04:43, 3 January 2024 (UTC)

• Delete While this software was written by an Ubuntu developer and included as part of Edubuntu, it never actually became a significant part of the system (apparently only being used for WebLive). After a couple years or so, it no longer worked and was later removed from the Ubuntu archive. Now that Snap exists, Arkose is unlikely to be developed further, and I don't think it makes sense to mention it in the Edubuntu article. Furthermore, there is now a tech company called "Arkose Labs", so this redirect may cause confusion in the future. PleaseStand (talk) 11:25, 4 January 2024 (UTC)

WPKX

• WPKX → WUCS  (talk · links · history · stats)     [ Closure: keep/retarget/delete ] 

Is there any particular reason why WPKX has continued to redirect to WUCS all this time, when the call sign has long since been reassigned to WPKX (AM)? Usually in this topic area, the primary topic with regard to a call sign title is the current station with the call sign, not a redirect to another station. (There is also a WPKX (disambiguation), for what it's worth.) WCQuidditch ☎ ✎ 02:43, 3 January 2024 (UTC)

Janes Place, California

• Janes Place, California → Humboldt County, California  (talk · links · history · stats)     [ Closure: keep/retarget/delete ] 

Target article never mentions Janes Place, or gives any hint about what or where it was. Very obscure place, unlikely search term. Propose deleting; or restoring original article if reliable sources about this place can be found. WeirdNAnnoyed (talk) 00:04, 3 January 2024 (UTC)

• Restore and send to WP:AFD per WP:BLAR. Steel1943 (talk) 06:02, 3 January 2024 (UTC)
• Restore and send to AfD per WP:BLAR and all the other California placenames recently nominated. Thryduulf (talk) 20:49, 3 January 2024 (UTC)
• Restore and send to AfD per WP:BLAR --Lenticel ^(talk) 00:17, 4 January 2024 (UTC)

Delete Topo map shows it as an isolated cabin. There's really no need to waste people's time with these RFDs and AFDs, just remove links to it or delete it from here. Reywas92^Talk 21:56, 4 January 2024 (UTC)