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November 8

Excuse me

Some Wikis at Fandom are behaving strangely. It appears to be impossible for pages being loaded to get anything but a message saying "This page isn't responding" asking me to either wait or exit the page. I don't get such messages at Wikipedia. What's special about Wikipedia that makes me not get such messages at it?? Georgia guy (talk) 00:54, 8 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Fandom wikis are not running on the same servers as Wikipedia, as they are a completely different company (although originally started by Jimmy Whales). Rmvandijk (talk) 07:40, 8 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Probably Jimmy Wales. -- SGBailey (talk) 12:32, 8 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Oops, I thought something was wrong when typing the name, so I changed it to the wrong one Rmvandijk (talk) 07:58, 10 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]

My experience with Fandom is that when the ads are broken, the entire web page hangs and doesn't load. 97.82.165.112 (talk) 11:56, 8 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Scoring for Wikipedia type Articles Generated by LLM

Our research team is building a LLM-based system which can generate a full-length Wikipedia page for a given topic without the need for supplemental information (e.g., human written outlines, curated references, etc.). Besides automatic evaluation, we would like to have frequent wikipedia editors collaborate with scoring the articles and providing feedback. Our goal is only for educational research, and we are not intending to try to publish these LLM generated articles on Wikipedia. Our LLM will ideally generate Wikipedia style articles with citations, and different sub-points. We will be scoring the essay based on 1. Well Written, 2. Verifiable with no original research, 3. Broad in its coverage, and 4. Qualitative comments (The first three metrics for a Good Article + Qualitative comments). We would take a subset of our articles produced and score them by actual Wikipedia editors as a way to verify our scoring is within reason.

We will be providing monetary compensation for work provided. This was posted earlier, but now with next steps. We hope to begin the review process in a few weeks.

Link[1]https://docs.google.com/forms/d/e/1FAIpQLSfaivclenvs9pdnW7cFcsTyvYy-wSCR_Vr_oYzJx_2bm-ZAqA/viewform?usp=sf_link Terribilis11 (talk) 19:39, 8 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]

I'll take a look but I think the LLM approach is not yet ready for this, and I cringe at Wikipedia becoming even more bureaucratic than it already is, due to LLM confabulation (even from outside the project) making its way into articles. The missing parts are provenance of data, logical inference, causality, and some kind of world model that is more concrete than what is inherent in the LLM. I'm sure AI researchers have deeper thoughts about this than I do. 2601:644:8501:AAF0:0:0:0:6375 (talk) 22:56, 8 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Thank you. We aren't intending for this product to be producing actual Wikipedia articles. Rather we believe Wikipedia's metrics are the most clear and are attempting to reach the same standard or at least see how it compares. Terribilis11 (talk) 01:25, 9 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Cable TV in power outage

We get occasional power outages here and there are several TV addicts in the house who go berserk when that happens. It is Comcrap cable TV. We don't have an OTA TV receiver. I've always figured that even if we had backup power to run the TV set and cable box, something upstream of the cable box would also be knocked out without power. But I just saw an XFinity ad saying their new cable box had internal power for up to 4 hours. So does it seem likely that regular cable TV would keep working in the event that everything in the neighborhood except the in-residence stuff was powered off?

This isn't a question about receiving emergency info since we have a radio, and mobile internet and phones have so far worked during these power outages. The outages so far have been localized to within a few blocks, and haven't lasted more than a few hours. We're in a part of California that gets heat waves but no snowstorms or flooding. I'm not into TV myself and am always glad when it is shut off, so I haven't worried about this much in the past. Thanks. 2601:644:8501:AAF0:0:0:0:6375 (talk) 23:06, 8 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Do you not get any broadcast terrestrial stations? It might not please your TV addicts only having a hundred or so stations, but at least they would have a moving image to stare at! Martin of Sheffield (talk) 23:38, 8 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]

At least in the US, to get broadcast terrestial TV these days, you need a special piece of hardware (RF receiver/converter) since it is no longer built into the TV set. We could get the receiver (it's not licenced or anything like that) but at the moment we don't have it. Most people don't bother with them if they have cable. The TV addicts here mostly want to watch cable news anyway. It rots the mind even more than sitcoms do, I guess. So I think it is cable or nothing. Thanks though. 2601:644:8501:AAF0:0:0:0:6375 (talk) 00:10, 9 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Ah. Here in the UK all TVs I've seen (except Sky Glass) come with digital terrestrial "freeview". Apart from the BBC though, they are typically 5 minutes of adverts to 10 minutes of programmes. Martin of Sheffield (talk) 07:49, 9 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]

It depends on if the cable company still has power everywhere it needs it. We have our modem, cable box, and TV on some UPSs, and during the last hurricane here (September, I think), we lost power for 7 hours, but we still had TV until the UPS ran out. Bubba73 ^{You talkin' to me?} 00:29, 9 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]

First, you can put your cable box and your television on a battery backup. Then, if you lose power, but the entire cable company infrastructure still has power to deliver a signal to you, you can process the signal and view it. Second, your claim that televisions do not have antenna connections is far fetched. Monitors do not have antenna connections. Televisions do. This is not a new claim though. I have had this exact conversation with many other people. They claim that their television has no place to plug in an antenna. Either they are using a monitor (not a television), or they have their cable box plugged into the antenna connection. That is the setup that the cable company prefers because it makes it annoying to unplug the cable box and plug in an antenna. 97.82.165.112 (talk) 12:22, 9 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]

My television has an antenna connection, but only an analogue receiver. There's no analogue signal available any more. There is over-the-air television available on the digital DVB-T standard, but I'd need a separate receiver for that. PiusImpavidus (talk) 10:02, 10 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Per Bubba73, definitely get yourself a decent UPS. Shantavira|^{feed me} 13:59, 9 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Many cable companies offer voice over Internet phone (VoIP phone) for people who want to have the experience of a wired telephone without having to do business with one of the plain old telephone service companies. Also, those with cell phones may be unable to make actual cell phone calls from their homes in rural areas, and only be able to use them because of Wi-Fi calling. So in some areas the cable service is just as essential as telephone service. I don't know if the government regulates the VoIP phone infrastructure as strictly as it regulates plain old telephone service. Jc3s5h (talk) 15:01, 9 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]

November 10

Good C textbook?

Last time I taught C, the sun never set on the British Empire (or nearly so). Back then, the best book I found to teach from was K&R. I still think it's a good bock, but did anything else come up in the last 20 years? --Stephan Schulz (talk) 07:12, 10 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]

At one point C: A Modern Approach by K.N. King was widely recommended by C cognoscenti, but that was quite a few years ago by now, too. —scs (talk) 11:42, 10 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]

The title of King's book is C Programming: A Modern Approach. It takes account of the newer standards up to C99, while K&R remains stuck at C89. Later changes in the ANSI C standard are IMO of lesser importance. --Lambiam 15:33, 10 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks. It looks like the cup may pass me by (but knock on wood). I'll probably get a copy of the Modern Approach, anyways. But boy, have textbooks become expensive! EUR 60 for a paperback K&R, and EUR 70 for the King... --Stephan Schulz (talk) 17:28, 10 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]

To learn anything related to computers you do not need any printed books. You can just use internet. You can for instance review these free C++ books. Ruslik_Zero 19:45, 10 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]

These are all on C++, which is a very different language. But I found the list of C books one click away - thanks. Most of them seem inappropriate as a beginners textbook. In general, yes, you can find a lot of useful knowledge on the internet, but a lot of what you find there is horseshit, heaped doubly high and extra-wide. It's fine for experienced people who can recognise the smell, but not for first-year students (or at least not for most of them). --Stephan Schulz (talk) 21:57, 10 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]

There is a good tutorial here. Ruslik_Zero 20:59, 11 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Three more references:

The C FAQ list's answer (dated, some links broken)
Stack Overflow's "Definitive C Book Guide and List"
A decent online C class (also somewhat dated, C90 only)

—scs (talk) 22:04, 11 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]

November 12

Is there any way to get support for Google Home?

I love Google Home and Google Assistant (GA).

I have a Google Nest speaker or display in every room. In addition, all of my light sources at home are Philips Hue devices, which I used to be able to control using my Google devices.

However, a few months ago, GA stopped understanding my lighting-related commands. Initially, when I said, "Turn off the lights", GA replied, "According to <some environmental org.>, turning off lights is a great way to save energy". But a week later, GA began to completely ignore my requests. I can see on the displays that GA correctly converts my voice to text, but there is no action or response at all.

This still applies to "turn on the lights". However, "turn off the lights" now causes GA to reply, "I don't understand".

But if I say, "Make all lights green", GA will correctly make all lights in my home turn green.

Additionally, when I try to activate a scene, GA replies in English, "Got it. One or more devices are not available.", but with Swedish pronunciation.

Please note that I can control all lights using the Google Home app on an Android device. It's only voice control that doesn't work.

Also, GA has started to talk in English with Swedish accent. This applies to its own error messages. I think the reason is that the device uses its Swedish synthetic voice to speak English text.

There are more strange issues. For instance, if I try to start a stopwatch on a display, the device replies, "You cannot start a stopwatch on this device. However, you can ...". But if I try it a second time immediately after, it does start a stopwatch for me on that very same display.

I sent an email to Google's support a few months ago, and they replied that they hoped the issues would be fixed in the next firmware update. However, nothing has improved since then.

I sent a new email this week, and the automatic reply said I would get an answer within two days, but that didn't happen.

What can I do? I really, really, want the devices to work, and I don't mind paying for true product support. But is there any support? Does Google have a support department? If so, how to get in touch with them?

Is there some other approach I can take?

(I do subscribe to various Google services with monthly fees (YouTube Premium, Google One, etc.). Wouldn't that qualify me for some kind of technical support?)

--Andreas Rejbrand (talk) 00:40, 12 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]

There is a website support.google.com. I have no idea if it will be of any help for Google Home. --Lambiam 05:08, 13 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]

About your lights, are they still properly registered and connected to your Google Nest devices and Google account? Follow Hue's instructions here [2] and check if they are. As for the Swedish voice, there is likely a setting somewhere you can control what voice it uses. Have you tried something like "Okay Google, change your voice" or "Okay Google, list voices you can use". (NB I probably won't be replying more, but in any case, I have no personal experience with Hue devices or Google Nest and Assistant other than some very basic stuff like open Twitch on my phone. I only have experience with Alexa/Echo Show and Wiz devices. However I'm fairly sure similar concepts apply to all of these devices even if they use different protocols, methods of connection etc. Ultimately they need to recognise the lights and be authorised to control them. To be fair, I would expect if you just don't have an lights the response would be something like 'You don't have any lights I can control' but it's hard to be sure.) Nil Einne (talk) 05:38, 13 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Well, all the lights are visible and functional in the Google Home Android application. I can turn them all on and off in the app. I can change their colours and dim them. Also, all lights can be controlled using voice but only when it comes to setting colours: "Make all lights green." That works. The problem is that I am not able to turn lights on and off using voice: "Turn on the lights", "Turn off all lights", etc. don't work, with varying kinds of error responses (sometimes no response at all). Apparently, all lights are properly connected to Google, but for some reason very strange and seemingly random things happen with voice commands. --Andreas Rejbrand (talk) 14:09, 13 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Looking online, I see some people saying doing stuff like saying "turn off my lights" or just "turn off lights" instead of the lights can help. Maybe even a short "lights off". Also have you tried controlling lights individually or in rooms e.g. "turn off kitchen light 1" (or whatever, I don't know how you name your lights) or "turn off all kitchen lights" or "turn off all lights in my/the kitchen"? Also have you tried something like "are my lights on?" I did find a lot of people who've had similar issues over the past year or two with limited help. I know it's been a long time, but if you aren't sure this has ever happened during that time it might be worth power cycling both the Google Nest device you're using and the lights along with any Hue hubs and maybe even the home router. (I mean hard power cycle not simply a soft one to ensure they properly refresh.) There is a slight chance removing the lights and adding them back will help but given it is still able to control them, I suspect not. BTW from what I read although Google One might entitle you to phone support, I don't think this carries over into Nest devices and problems or for that matter anything related to the Assistant and if you try you'll probably just be told where you can go for help. You can try https://support.google.com/googlenest/gethelp and https://support.google.com/assistant/community although frankly, I sort of think this is a classic case where it'll be very difficult to get any meaningful support from Google. Nil Einne (talk) 10:51, 14 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Searching Wikipedia using wildcards to find people with certain initials

I'm interested in finding a list of notable people with certain initials. I've been all over the search FAQ's, and I understand * stands for any string of characters not at the beginning of a word. But searching on "B* C*" does not give anything useful. Any suggestions?

71.214.71.49 (talk) 17:43, 12 November 2023 (UTC)erich[reply]

For many names there's a disambiguation list, typing in 'Nolan' will give Nolan (surname) for instance. Personally I'd probably use Google. NadVolum (talk) 17:51, 12 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]

You already asked this question on the Help Desk and got some answers there. Please don't ask the same question in more than one place, because it wastes other editors' time. CodeTalker (talk) 01:16, 13 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]

You can use Google to search Wikipedia more efficiently than using the Wikipedia search. In Google, include "site:en.wikipedia.org" in your search query and you will limit it to searching Wikipedia instead of the entire Internet. 12.116.29.106 (talk) 12:58, 14 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]

November 13

Windscribe VPN not disconnecting properly until PC restart

I've tried to disconnect it the way you are normally supposed to, but nothing happens. I tried reconnecting the Wi-Fi, nothing. Renewing the IP? Nothing. Anything except restarting? Nothing. What caused the problem? Equal width (C) 19:27, 13 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]

November 14

@@ Line 116: / Line 116: @@
 :For many names there's a disambiguation list, typing in 'Nolan' will give [[Nolan (surname)]] for instance. Personally I'd probably use Google. [[User:NadVolum|NadVolum]] ([[User talk:NadVolum|talk]]) 17:51, 12 November 2023 (UTC)
 :You already asked this question on the [[Special:PermanentLink/1184852130#Searching Wikipedia using wildcards to find people with certain initials|Help Desk]] and got some answers there. Please don't ask the same question in more than one place, because it wastes other editors' time. [[User:CodeTalker|CodeTalker]] ([[User talk:CodeTalker|talk]]) 01:16, 13 November 2023 (UTC)
+:You can use Google to search Wikipedia more efficiently than using the Wikipedia search. In Google, include "site:en.wikipedia.org" in your search query and you will limit it to searching Wikipedia instead of the entire Internet. [[Special:Contributions/12.116.29.106|12.116.29.106]] ([[User talk:12.116.29.106|talk]]) 12:58, 14 November 2023 (UTC)
 = November 13 =