Talk:2021–22 Ashes series

Proposed merge of English cricket team in Australia in 2021–22 with 2021–22 Ashes series

Usually the England tours of Australia have other internationals (ODIs and/or T20Is), so having separate articles makes sense. Here it does not, as all the international matches are Tests, which are therefore just being duplicated in the two articles. This was discussed briefly at Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Cricket/Archive 91#Two Ashes series articles?, but that turned into an WP:OSE argument ("because we have 2 articles for other Ashes series" is not a valid reason, because most other Ashes series have more than just Test matches) Joseph2302 (talk) 17:46, 30 November 2021 (UTC)

• Support merge It seems the only thing the first article contains that the latter does not is the Australia A and Lions squads, and the warm-up matches. There is too much duplication to justify separate articles.-- Pawnkingthree (talk) 20:23, 30 November 2021 (UTC)
• Oppose - there are still tour matches. It's a shame about the rain, but we have had some cricket. StAnselm (talk) 22:10, 30 November 2021 (UTC)
• Oppose - I know that I'm not an "educator" or whatever it is that you guys call yourselves. But I would like to give my opinion on this. I would say that the title of English cricket team in Australia in 2021–22 should be changed to "English A squad in Australia in 2021-22". It's just my opinion, but I think that these two articles shouldn't be merged. Shooting Spirit 007 (talk) 06:46, 1 December 2021 (UTC)
• Oppose merge - The English cricket team in Australia in 2021–22 article includes at least three tour matches: England vs England Lions (match 1), England vs England Lions (match 2), Australia A vs England Lions, and a 4th match which was scheduled for 1 December to 3 December. These three/four differences are the reason why the two articles are (and should continue to be) separate articles. Chrisclear (talk) 08:41, 1 December 2021 (UTC)

• Those three tour matches would be fine in a section of an article on the Ashes. 3 or 4 non important tour matches shouldn't be a reason for creating an otherwise duplicate article. Joseph2302 (talk) 08:55, 1 December 2021 (UTC)

• If that was the case (and I still oppose merging the articles), then 2021–22 Ashes series article is no longer named correctly. If a merge were to occur, the article that should be deleted (redirected) is 2021–22 Ashes series, because it is a subset of the article about the tour overall. I note that between 1992 and 2004, there were no separate articles about the Ashes series that took place during that period. Chrisclear (talk) 10:04, 1 December 2021 (UTC)

• Oppose - there are Ashes series articles for other years, this should remain for consistency. Further material can obviously be added as the matches take place. Deus et lex (talk) 23:02, 3 December 2021 (UTC)

• There are also many years which don't have a dedicated article. Throwing out a consistency argument therefore makes no sense, and is just WP:OSE. Joseph2302 (talk) 23:58, 3 December 2021 (UTC)

• It does make sense, and it's a valid argument. The proposal to merge a page away from the Ashes series is a silly proposal. Deus et lex (talk) 08:49, 11 December 2021 (UTC)

• Support merge Just for the sake of separate article for Tour Matches absolutely doesn't make any sense Aditya tamhankar 12:31 IST, 4 December 2021
• Oppose The Ashes does not include any succeeding/preceding ODIs and T20Is, it is purely the Test series. The English cricket team in Australia article can include those things as well as the tour matches. The Ashes is also a notable cricket event which is usually gone into more detail about, e.g. match reports, summaries etc., in its own article. I am all for producing dedicated Ashes articles for bygone series that do not have them; I agree that they should have them if this was to be an argument. User:Linkiscool99 11:39 GMT, 5 December 2021
• Oppose due to the fact that the tour page includes the cricket matches played in the shorter formats of the game. 2001:8003:E80F:700:5044:E594:7D6F:3840 (talk) 12:40, 6 December 2021 (UTC)
• Oppose - I thought it was ridiculous until I saw the England A team. And also the Ashes Test series had separately articles sjnce the beginning so it should remain separate for the consistency. I suggest this article be name as "England Lions cricket team in Australia in 2021–22" instead as the last tour match has nothing to do with the main England team. Human (talk) 01:41, 8 December 2021 (UTC)
• Oppose Seriously? The Ashes should be merged to another article? Tame (talk) 06:40, 11 December 2021 (UTC)
• Oppose Reasons provided by other users are convincing. Gregorytopov (talk) 23:42, 14 January 2022 (UTC)
• Comment I've been bold and removed the tags for a merger. Two weeks have gone since the discussion started, and most comments here oppose a merge at this time. Thanks. Lugnuts ^{Fire Walk with Me} 10:19, 14 December 2021 (UTC)

Section on umpiring controversy

The section on umpiring controversy is not written in a neutral manner - especially with regards to the comments about Tim Paine. 2A01:4C8:1C01:44A7:1:0:2ACF:4F9C (talk) 19:45, 7 December 2021 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 9 December 2021

In this phrase

Mark McGowan, the premier of Western Australia insisted on a 14-day quarantine period for everyone travelling into the state.

Please add a comma after "Australia". 122.150.71.249 (talk) 20:52, 9 December 2021 (UTC)

 Done —Sirdog (talk) 21:16, 9 December 2021 (UTC)

Ben Stokes is England's vice-captain for the Ashes

Reason: He deputised (led) when Root was injured in the 4th Day of the 2nd Test. Requesting Lugnuts to stop undoing edits.

Shooting Spirit 007 (talk) 10:38, 20 December 2021 (UTC)

Do you have an actual reliable source for this? The sources in the article don't list him as vice-captain. Joseph2302 (talk) 10:42, 20 December 2021 (UTC)

Who do they exactly list as vice-captain, might I ask? Because it has to be either Buttler or Stokes. And Stokes actually deputised; you would know if you watched the match. Shooting Spirit 007 (talk) 10:48, 20 December 2021 (UTC)

In this link - "England's Ashes Squad 2021-22 Full List with Players". - it says that Buttler is Root's deputy (go to where it talks about Buttler). But Stokes deputised. So, it's really confusing... Shooting Spirit 007 (talk) 10:50, 20 December 2021 (UTC)

I, honestly, believe that Stokes and Buttler are joint vice-captains for this tour, but that doesn't really make that much sense. Shooting Spirit 007 (talk) 10:53, 20 December 2021 (UTC)

The ECB have not listed him as such in their squad announcements. What if Stokes doesn't play in a match? Does Buttler become the VC? As per Joseph's post, you need a reliable source to confirm this. In the meantime, please stop changing it, as you are edit-warring. Lugnuts ^{Fire Walk with Me} 11:48, 20 December 2021 (UTC)

Hey, man. Check captain (cricket). Some guy wrote Stokes as the vice-captain of England's Test team there. So, I'm just agreeing with him. Shooting Spirit 007 (talk) 11:51, 20 December 2021 (UTC)

The ECB squad announcement actually mentions Buttler as vice-captain :Ten of the 17 will be touring Australia in an Ashes series for the first time, including vice-captain Jos Buttler. Stokes was vice-captain before his break from cricket with Buttler taking his place. Unless a clear announcement is made, it is difficult to know quite what the situation is, though actions speak louder than words / the proof is in the pudding / some other vacuous simile. Spike 'em (talk) 12:00, 20 December 2021 (UTC)

So, Buttler is the vice-captain? Shooting Spirit 007 (talk) 12:03, 20 December 2021 (UTC)

If that is correct, then the captain (cricket) page states something wrong. Should we use the protection policy on it? Shooting Spirit 007 (talk) 12:07, 20 December 2021 (UTC)

Thanks Spike - was looking for a VC icon next to Buttler! Maybe the ECB's graphics team can make a "VC/WK" one... :D Lugnuts ^{Fire Walk with Me} 12:11, 20 December 2021 (UTC)

(e/c) Actually, I notice that the page I linked page is referenced already on article BUT even though it has a picture of Stokes on the page, it is dated before he was formally added to the squad, the announcement of which makes no mention of captaincy status. All we can really say is that Buttler was still vc back in October. Spike 'em (talk) 12:15, 20 December 2021 (UTC)

Glad that we've wrapped up this conversation. Thanks for settling my doubts, Lugnuts, Joseph2302 and Spike 'em. Shooting Spirit 007 (talk) 12:29, 20 December 2021 (UTC)

This seems to have become relevant again. Have the ECB actually named Stokes as vice-captain, as it is passing mention of the fact in news report that is being used to describe him as such? I have listed them both as VC with a footnote to annotate the confusion. Spike 'em (talk) 13:32, 4 January 2022 (UTC)

Scoring notation

One thing I think all Wikipedia cricket contributors need to agree on is how team's scores should be notated. In Australia we always say wickets for runs, while everywhere else it's the reverse. Given that, I am happy to fall in line with the rest for the sake of standardisation and uniformity. Also, should we use a dash or hyphen? e.g. 131–4 or 131/4— Preceding unsigned comment added by Kingjezza (talk • contribs)

Hi Kingjezza, according to Scoring at the Wikipedia:WikiProject Cricket/Style advice, we're meant to "adopt the consensus style of writing in the host country of the match" - so wickets then runs for this series. That page section also discusses the slashes.

P.S. Well done to you and others for adding the prose to ready the article for Main Page ITN. HNY! JennyOz (talk) 07:27, 31 December 2021 (UTC)

Yes, for series/tournaments solely hosted by Australia, we use 5/150. For any other country we use 150/5. Joseph2302 (talk) 09:36, 31 December 2021 (UTC)

Thanks for the clarification Kingjezza (talk) 03:08, 7 January 2022 (UTC)

Fourth Test report

Someone needs to write a report for the Fourth Test. Its absence is conspicuous given reports for the first three. Gregorytopov (talk) 23:39, 14 January 2022 (UTC)

Statistics Detail

A user has replaced all bowling / batting statistics with just the top 5 players per category.

I propose to revert back to the original statistics to give a more detailed overview of the series. Superawesomee (talk) 01:12, 18 January 2022 (UTC)

No thanks, full figures would be excessive.Spike 'em (talk) 01:29, 18 January 2022 (UTC)

Can I have another opinion other than from Spike em? As he is the one that made the cuts in the first place. I definitely prefer the addition detail. Superawesomee (talk) 07:28, 18 January 2022 (UTC)

If you show me another cricket article that goes into such detail then I'll happily drop my objection. Spike 'em (talk) 08:24, 18 January 2022 (UTC)

Top 5 is fine, we don't need every person's figures as that violates WP:NOTSTATS. Joseph2302 (talk) 09:03, 18 January 2022 (UTC)