Talk:2B (Nier: Automata)

GA Review

This review is transcluded from Talk:2B (Nier: Automata)/GA1. The edit link for this section can be used to add comments to the review.

Reviewer: Shooterwalker (talk · contribs) 03:39, 9 March 2023 (UTC)

Just spent some time reviewing the Nier: Automata FA, so I'm primed to look at this. Look for comments from me in the next few days. Shooterwalker (talk) 03:39, 9 March 2023 (UTC)

• Lead
• The opening sentence is a bit of a mouthful. I might look for a way to break it up or shorten it, but it's not strictly wrong as is.

•  Done Sorta... slightly shortened it, but I'm not sure how to otherwise improve it.

• "and prominent in its related media" -> I suggest saving this for the end of the opening paragraph, and maybe even elaborate on what that media is.

•  Done

• "Her story arc focuses on her relationship with her partner reconnaissance model 9S, and her backstory within YoRHa." -> "Her story arc focuses on her backstory within YoRHa, and her relationship with her partner 9S, a reconnaissance android.

•  Done

• "where mentioned" -> seems unnecessary / implied. Could just delete these two words.

•  Done

• "fashion and sexuality" -> This might deserve elaboration even in the lead. If it leads to its own sentence, that's still a pretty concise lead.

•  Done

• Creation and design
• "For the game, all the cast were" -> "The game features characters who are

•  Done Albeit rephrased in a different way.

• "The storyline of 2B and fellow android character 9S ended on an optimistic note unlike his Drakengard protagonists" -> "Taro created the storyline of the 2B and 9S androids with more optimism than that of Drakengard,"

•  Done Rephrased in a different way.

• "saying that the events of the ending were sufficient punishment for their in-game actions" --> This part is a little confusing. It's possible you say it better in the part that follows, and I'd even consider deleting this part, or expanding on the next sentence.

•  Done I tweaked it to make it more clear.

• "recital-based epilogue" -> the meaning of recital-based is unclear here

•  Done Clarified it was an audio play.

• "which released in a guidebook" -> "which is described in a game guide."

•  Done

• "2B took up a prominent place in the game's marketing" -> "2B was featured prominently in the marketing for Nier: Automata"

•  Done

• "Leading up to release, 2B's death and A2's playable role was not intentionally hidden, though the marketing team used her long-haired design for footage from a late-game boss fight where in-game she had short hair, making the change less obvious" -> this might be a level of detail that would escape most people who don't know the story. You could consider dropping it. Or if you think it's an important part of the marketing, then you need to cover it as an important part of the story and character conception.

•  Done Removed

• "For localization company 8-4, writing the android characters was their biggest issue, as while ostensibly emotionless they had distinctively personalities and much of 2B and 9S's relationship revolved around emotion." -> "Localization company 8-4 found it challenging to translate the android dialogue, as it was difficult to balance their purported emotionlessness with their highly emotional relationships and distinct personalities."

•  Done Albeit slightly tweaked

• You should move the localization and marketing design to later in the section, since they would have been following the lead of the earlier character conception in the actual game.

•  Done

• "Speaking about 2B's design," -> this is implied and can be dropped

•  Done

• "separating it from earlier PlatinumGames titles." -> this part is a little unclear

•  Done

• "Her in-game model was created by Hito Matsudaira based on Yoshida's art. " -> "Hito Matsudaira designed her in-game model based on Yoshida's concept art."

•  Done

• "different tonally" -> "tonally different"

•  Done

• "and Kawabuchi redid her facial capture to match the final lines." -> "with Kawabuchi matching her facial capture to the final recording."

•  Done

• "more recording being dedicated to traditional animations between sword attacks" -> "more recording dedicated to animations between sword attacks"

•  Done

• Is there a context to why Taro is wearing a mask in that image? It probably warrants a description.

•  Done

Let's pause there. The article is generally well-written, and it will reach GA once we fix a few issues with clarity and flow. Shooterwalker (talk) 01:51, 13 March 2023 (UTC)

@Shooterwalker:Changes made, tell me if there's anything else that needs fixing. ᴢxᴄᴠʙɴᴍ (ᴛ) 13:21, 13 March 2023 (UTC)

We can keep going with this.

• Appearances
• Reading this section, I might suggest putting the appearances before the conception. That will make it easier for a casual reader to follow who the character is, before talking about their development.

•  Done Pretty sure it was like this originally, but it got changed sometime after I made the article.

• "2B is presented as a "B" (Battler) combat android for YoRHa, a newly-created squadron dedicated to reclaiming Earth for humanity from the machines created by invading aliens in a prolonged proxy war." -> This is a pretty dense sentence. I might suggest splitting it into two shorter sentences.

•  Done

• "humanity exists following its extinction" -> "humanity survived its destruction"

•  Done Well, not in the same way though. The thing is, I don't think they even know about Project Gestalt or the events of Nier.

• "assess or confront" -> "reckon with" (or something with fewer words)

•  Done

• "find groups of machines" -> "find machines"

•  Done

• "are confronted by" -> "meet" (or another verb that is parallel with "discover" and "find"

•  Done

• "During her story" -> this loses some clarity since the paragraph starts with the third playthrough. Maybe make it clear that the playthrough takes place from multiple perspectives?

•  Done

• "2B featured in two spin-off novels;" -> " 2B is featured in two spin-off novels:"

•  Done

• "and as part of a cast statue " -> this part isn't exactly grammatical. Is the statue of all three characters? Maybe there's a better way to phrase this.

•  Done

• "2B featured as a playable guest character" -> "2B is a playable guest character"

•  Done

• "released in three parts" -> "was released in three parts"

•  Done

• "2B featured in a crossover" -> "2B appeared in a crossover"

•  Done

• "around one of the boss characters and appearances from other in-game characters" -> "around characters from Nier: Automata" (I'm guessing)

•  Done

• "Costumes themed after 2B have featured" -> "Costumes themed after 2B are included"

•  Done

• Reception
• "disturbed by the repeated deaths of her assigned partner, 9S, finding it painful that his memories get deleted" -> "disturbed by her partner's repeated deaths and memory-wipes."

•  Done

• Half the paragraph is from RPG Site. I recommend pulling it down to one line, just as a matter of WP:WEIGHT.

•  Not done I shortened it, but I think the information is relevant.

• Maybe briefly explain one thing that led 2B to be ranked as one of the best new game characters of 2017. I'm not one for too many listicles, but I think this might be a stronger way to start off the paragraph.

•  Done

• PC Gamer and The Escapist also veer into WP:UNDUE weight, and I'd recommend getting to the main point more quickly.

•  Done

• "2B's inclusion in the Nier: Automata Ver1.1a was the subject of praise due to the new dynamic she has with 9S as the perspective constantly changes between both of them." -> "2B's role in Nier: Automata Ver1.1a was praised for a fresh dynamic between 2B and 9S, as the player's perspective constantly changes between them."

•  Done

• "found ridiculous by Kotaku for whether or not she fits its roster as well as fellow guest character Geralt" -> "criticized by Kotaku for being a poor stylistic fit for the game's roster of characters."

•  Done

• "Polygon noted the character to be highly popular as with her addition to Final Fantasy XIV has led to several players imitate her design through their own characters" -> "Polygon noted the character's popularity with her addition to Final Fantasy XIV, as well as the popularity of her outfit as an in-game item."

•  Done

• "A lifesized figurine was also made by COCO." -> This would fit better in the appearances section

•  Done

• The hoax isn't exactly clear and could be described more directly.

•  Done

• "A fan-made portrait of 2B created by artist Meli Magali was shared by billionaire Elon Musk in 2019, resulting in a controversy when he refused to credit the artist, later deleting the post but generating a wave of support for the artist" -> "After Elon Musk shared a fan-made portrait of 2B, he was criticized for refusing to credit artist Meli Magali, who received a wave of support as Musk deleted his post."

•  Done

That should cover most of it. We can look for any lingering issues and wrap this up soon. Shooterwalker (talk) 03:40, 14 March 2023 (UTC)

@Shooterwalker: Okay, I've made further changes. Not your fault, but this was more annoying than it needed to be since a lot of the edits in the time since I wrote it added info, but also significant grammatical awkwardness and problems as well as issues with the layout. That is part of the reason I wanted to do this GA though, before it got any worse. Tell me if there are any more issues with the article. ᴢxᴄᴠʙɴᴍ (ᴛ) 21:46, 15 March 2023 (UTC)

I understand this process can be annoying. There's going to be one more round of revisions, but hopefully it won't be too annoying. The article has improved a lot already, and is within close reach of GA status.

• The references seem to check out, but there are some minor typos that need a quick fix ("Hardcmre Gamer" and "Wored")

•  Done

• "Yoko's request was for a character that would be fun to cosplay." -> "Yoko asked Yoshida to design a character that would be fun to cosplay."

•  Done

• The comment about her being a foil in the lead... I'm having trouble attributing that to something in the body. It might already be there, but I recommend making the language between the body and lead more similar just for clarity.

•  Done

• "thus deleting his memories, whenever he learned the truth about YoRHa - that humanity had gone extinct long ago, following the events of Nier." -> "thus deleting his memories. This was to conceal the truth about YorHA, that humanity had gone extinct long ago, following the events of Nier."

•  Done - Albeit phrased a different way

• "Consequently 2B" -> "Consequently, 2B"

•  Done

• "They find Machines emulating human societies, discover that the aliens were destroyed by their own creations, and are ambushed by Adam and Eve, humanoid Machines controlling the network." -> " They find Machines emulating human societies, and discover that the aliens were destroyed by their own creations. Soon after, 2B and 9S are ambushed by Adam and Eve, humanoid Machines controlling the network." (the list reads awkwardly, and is clearer as two separate sentences)

•  Done

• "third route" -> is "third playthrough" inaccurate?

•  Not done Yes - routes are not playthroughs. A and B are the same first half of the game, while the 2nd half ends in a choice between C and D, before allowing E when both are chosen.

• "The perspective" -> do we mean the player's perspective, or more cinematically, like a film?

•  Done - Language has been tweaked to make it more clear

• "Merchandise representation includes a Play Arts Kai figurine, a statue of the game's main cast, where she is shown alongside 9S and A2, and a lifesized figurine made by COCO." -> "She is also represented in merchandise, including a lifesized figurine made by COCO, a Play Arts Kai figurine, and a statue of the game's main cast, where she is shown alongside 9S and A2."

•  Done

• "2B featured as a playable guest character" -> "2B is a playable guest character"

•  Done

• "Yoko resolved 2B and 9S's storyline on a more optimistic note than that of Drakengard, believing that, while the protagonists of previous games committed morally unforgivable acts, the events of Automata were sufficient for the androids to be "cleansed of their sins", and that they deserved a happy ending." -> "In contrast to the darker narrative of Drakengard, Yoko decided that 2B and 9S deserved a happy ending, due to his belief that their experiences in Automata had "cleansed" the androids of their transgressions."

•  Done

• "2B and other lead characters were designed by Akihiko Yoshida," -> "2B was designed by lead character artist Akihiko Yoshida"

•  Done

• "performance even if individual lines" -> "performance, even if individual lines

•  Done

• "Beginning motion acting" -> "Beginning her career in motion acting"

•  Done - Slightly different grammar

• I still think the RPG site section gets a lot more weight than the other sources. It creates a WP:WEIGHT issue, and gives the article three dense and grammatically complicated sentences.

•  Done - Shortened further

• The controversy section is easier to understand now.
• "reaction described" -> "reaction described by PC Gamer"

•  Done - Uhh - I honestly have no clue why the edit was made here, as it makes no sense. I reverted it.

That should be everything. Thanks for your patience and hard work on this. Shooterwalker (talk) 14:06, 16 March 2023 (UTC)

@Shooterwalker: Changes made. ᴢxᴄᴠʙɴᴍ (ᴛ) 08:30, 19 March 2023 (UTC)

Thanks for all that. The article has definitely reached GA quality. Congratulations. Shooterwalker (talk) 16:55, 20 March 2023 (UTC)

Did you know nomination

The following is an archived discussion of the DYK nomination of the article below. Please do not modify this page. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as this nomination's talk page, the article's talk page or Wikipedia talk:Did you know), unless there is consensus to re-open the discussion at this page. No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was: withdrawn by nominator, closed by Theleekycauldron (talk) 02:36, 13 April 2023 (UTC)

(

• Comment or view
• Article history

)

• ... that writer Yoko Taro requested that the design for the character 2B be enjoyable for cosplayers? Source: http://dengekionline.com/elem/000/001/068/1068126/ , https://dengekionline.com/elem/000/001/146/1146564/
  • Reviewed: Template:Did you know nominations/Wyndham New Yorker Hotel

Improved to Good Article status by Zxcvbnm (talk). Nominated by Onegreatjoke (talk) at 18:50, 23 March 2023 (UTC). Post-promotion hook changes for this nom will be logged at Template talk:Did you know nominations/2B (Nier: Automata); consider watching this nomination, if it is successful, until the hook appears on the Main Page.

• Started reviewing this. Will update later today. — Rhododendrites ^talk \\ 15:23, 26 March 2023 (UTC)

General: Article is new enough and long enough
New enough: Long enough:

Policy compliance:

• Adequate sourcing: - Third paragraph under the Nier: Automata heading has no sources. You may know better than I do what's acceptable when summarizing in-world story/characters based just on the game itself. Further down, there is a quote "cleansed" that doesn't have a citation directly following the sentence. Ditto "droll". Best practice is for there to be a citation immediately following any quotation. In the reception section there are several direct quotes which have a citation at the end of the paragraph but not the sentence. Not a huge deal, but might as well fix.
• Neutral:
• Free of copyright violations, plagiarism, and close paraphrasing:
• Other problems: - Just something I noticed when running it through Earwig: there's a quote from one of the sources where "prevalence of" should be included in the quote that ends "blindfolds, collars and black materials".

Hook eligibility:

• Cited: - Could you clarify where in the source the claim is verified? I'm relying on Google Translate, but while I see several mentions of cosplay, none seem to verify the hook exactly.
• Interesting:
• Other problems: - The wording is a little awkward. Maybe "enjoyable to cosplay" or "enjoyable for fans to cosplay"?

QPQ: Done.

Overall: Just a few things to work out before promoting. — Rhododendrites ^talk \\ 17:06, 26 March 2023 (UTC)

Pinging @Onegreatjoke to alert them of still pending issues with this nomination.
I did find an unofficial translation of one of the interviews, which would suggest that the quote of "enjoyable to cosplay" (seems to be in the answer 「私が吉田明彦さんに“コスプレ映えしそうな衣装を是非”と発注しました。太ももあたりがたぶん彼のこだわりの部分だと思いますよ。」) should in fact be attributed to producer Saito Yosuke. I was also otherwise unable to verify the hook. silvia (BlankpopsiclesilviaASHs4) (inquire within) 00:54, 10 April 2023 (UTC)

Upon examining the other source, I've noticed a few other passages in it mentioning cosplay (「コスプレ」) including one which also appears to be attributed to Saito: (「俺からは、ファンの方たちがコスプレしやすい衣装に仕上げてくれたらうれしいな、と。」）Which according to DeepL, says that he would like the character costumes to be easy to cosplay.
I still cannot find any such statement that appears attributed to Taro. Considering that this tracks with what both machine translation and the fan translation say concerning the quote from the other interview, then, assuming I'm not mistaken about this, I think the likely ideal choice would be to change the hook to attribute the statement to Saito, and update the article accordingly. silvia (BlankpopsiclesilviaASHs4) (inquire within) 05:19, 10 April 2023 (UTC)

Honestly, I'm thinking about withdrawing this nomination considering I don't exactly know how I'm going to fix the problems at hand so this nomination might be over. Onegreatjoke (talk) 13:39, 11 April 2023 (UTC)

Notability check

Hi, nothing to worry about, I'm just doing a thing where the WP:VG/VGC task force goes alphabetically through low-importance video game character articles to verify whether or not the subject is notable, and if not, whether there's any saving it!

Now, looking at it, for me, it definitely passes when it comes to coverage of her design and conception. I'm also satisfied with the reception - I think there could be some more meat added on, but what there is at least enough to show she's notable. So I !vote Notable. As an aside, I removed an unreliable source - Niche Gamer - so something else should replace it (or the content should be removed). I also think that the Elon Musk part should be removed, as it's not actually about 2B in a meaningful way, just incidentally. - Cukie Gherkin (talk) 22:48, 17 July 2023 (UTC)

I just replaced it with a Polygon source that says the same thing. The Musk thing is probably the least important thing in the whole article so I am fine if people think it should be taken out. ᴢxᴄᴠʙɴᴍ (ᴛ) 23:15, 17 July 2023 (UTC)