Talk:Alice Munro

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This article has been viewed enough times in a single week to appear in the Top 25 Report. The week in which this happened:

October 6 to 12, 2013

Should short story be linked?

I think so, given how relevant it is to this subject and what MOS:UNDERLINK has to say about that. It was recently unlinked, though, reasoning it's a common term in WP:OVERLINK terms. Either of us might be right, so it's up to you, the uninvolved third party. InedibleHulk (talk) 23:40, 16 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I'm OK with linking it in this instance, seeing as Munro is mentioned at that article. ‑‑Neveselbert (talk · contribs · email) 23:53, 16 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Good to hear. Unless you plan to do it yourself, I think I'll wait a day or two to see if anyone else minds either way. I'm a bit "gunshy" this past year on anything even approaching an edit war (for better or worse). InedibleHulk (talk) 00:24, 17 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Article involving Munro’s personal life

Article by one of Alice Munro’s daughters.

https://archive.is/2024.07.07-111321/https://www.thestar.com/opinion/contributors/my-stepfather-sexually-abused-me-when-i-was-a-child-my-mother-alice-munro-chose/article_8415ba7c-3ae0-11ef-83f5-2369a808ea37.html VickiMeagher (talk) 17:14, 7 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Someone else added this to the personal life section, and I've added it as a subheading, as I think it is significant enough to merit this. Wasn't sure about the subheading title though WZibell (talk) 07:40, 9 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Alleged sexual abuse complicity

Resent additions.

On 7 July 2024, shortly after Munro's death, her youngest daughter, Andrea Skinner, revealed in an essay in the The Toronto Star that Fremlin had sexually abused her in 1976 when she was nine years old and that she told Munro about the incident in 1992, when Skinner was 25.^[1] In the essay, Skinner also disclosed that Fremlin repeatedly exposed himself to her, masturbated in front of her, and made sexually explicit statements to her until her adolescence.^[2] On returning to her father’s home after the abuse began in 1976, Skinner told her stepbrother and stepmother, the latter of whom told her father. Her father instructed them as well as Skinner's sisters not to tell Munro about the abuse, who they kept it a secret from for 16 years.^[1]^[3] After learning of the abuse from Skinner in 1992, Munro separated from Fremlin for a few months, but ultimately went back to him.^[2] According to Skinner, Munro said that she had been "told too late", while Munro's daughter Sheila said that "Alice wasn't able to sustain being alone and being apart from him. She told me that she couldn't live without him".^[1]^[2] According to retired detective Sam Lazerevich, when he appeared in 2004 to inform Fremlin of the allegations, Munro accused her daughter of lying and called her names.^[4]^[5] In 2005, Fremlin pleaded guilty to sexual assault and received a suspended sentence and probation.^[2] Moxy🍁 01:11, 31 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

So let's talk about the huge attention paid to this topic in this bio. Clearly a contentious topic..... Personally thinking it's a bit big and detailed for a biography that is still covered under WP:BLPBALANCE. There's got to be a way to consolidate this information and for us to follow WP:ACHIEVE NPOV.Moxy🍁 01:11, 31 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I agree with you; there is too much focus on this matter in the article; the section on her alleged complicity should be shortened. -- Melchior2006 (talk) 19:33, 31 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

We have a suggestion below that isn't all that bad.... what do you think.... hoping we get more input from other editors. Moxy🍁 20:46, 31 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Sounds good to me as well. Ymblanter (talk) 19:38, 1 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I agree that we need to pare it down to a single paragraph and there's a fair amount of superfluous details but I disagree with the proposed edit. This extent of trimming — which includes the total whitewashing of Munro's complicity, that several RSes have seen fit to describe, pace whatever personal opinions random editors might choose to have (see next section) on the issue — is ridiculous. TrangaBellam (talk) 05:42, 2 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I would discourage you from reverting edits which have been done after consensus was reached. You are welcome to participate in the discussion, make suggestions for improvements, and so on. But do not revert what others have agreed on. Pls revert your revert. -- Melchior2006 (talk) 06:26, 2 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Sources

References

^ ^a ^b ^c Cite error: The named reference :1 was invoked but never defined (see the help page).
^ ^a ^b ^c ^d Skinner, Andrea Robin. "My stepfather sexually abused me when I was a child. My mother, Alice Munro, chose to stay with him". The Toronto Star. Retrieved 7 July 2024.
^ "Nobel laureate Alice Munro's daughter reveals family secret of abuse". www.bbc.com. Retrieved 2024-07-09.
^ "Alice Munro told me her daughter was lying about being molested by her stepdad: OPP detective". www.thestar.com. Retrieved 2024-07-12.
^ "Canadian officer says Alice Munro claimed her daughter was lying about being abused by stepfather". AP News. 12 July 2024. Retrieved 14 July 2024.

Alice is not a criminal, she did nothing wrong.

Alice Munro is not here to answer these allegations, particularly the one involved what Andrea Skinner says she said. She did nothing wrong or criminal, she made an unpopular choice that her adult daughter did not like. She was not complicit in the sexual abuse, she did not know about it. As for the comments by the police officer, he displays a bias to Munro in the article because she does not behave as he feels a "mother" should and talks about throwing her books away. This material does not belong in her biography, it is about her daughter and her displeasure wth her mother's choices.

As per all the references above. RATFINKGRAHAM (talk) 02:03, 31 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I would suggest this: In 2005, Munro's second husband, Gerry Fremlin, pled guilty to sexually abusing her youngest daughter, Andrea, from the time she was nine until she was about 13.

References: 1. Andrea Skinner, (2024, "My Step-father Sexually Abused Me When I Was A Child...", Toronto Star, July 7, 2024 https://www.thestar.com/opinion/contributors/my-stepfather-sexually-abused-me-when-i-was-a-child-my-mother-alice-munro-chose/article_8415ba7c-3ae0-11ef-83f5-2369a808ea37.html" /> — Preceding unsigned comment added by RATFINKGRAHAM (talk • contribs) 19:30, 31 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

This suggestion sounds reasonable we're talking about this in a section above..... we are waiting for more input before changes are implemented. Moxy🍁 20:47, 31 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Sounds good. Thank you. RATFINKGRAHAM (talk) 21:13, 31 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

[:1-1] Cite error: The named reference :1 was invoked but never defined (see the help page).

[:0-2] Skinner, Andrea Robin. "My stepfather sexually abused me when I was a child. My mother, Alice Munro, chose to stay with him". The Toronto Star. Retrieved 7 July 2024.

[3] "Nobel laureate Alice Munro's daughter reveals family secret of abuse". www.bbc.com. Retrieved 2024-07-09.

[4] "Alice Munro told me her daughter was lying about being molested by her stepdad: OPP detective". www.thestar.com. Retrieved 2024-07-12.

[5] "Canadian officer says Alice Munro claimed her daughter was lying about being abused by stepfather". AP News. 12 July 2024. Retrieved 14 July 2024.

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