|This is the talk page for discussing improvements to the Annie Haslam article.
This is not a forum for general discussion of the article's subject.
|This article must adhere to the biographies of living persons (BLP) policy, even if it is not a biography, because it contains material about living persons. Contentious material about living persons that is unsourced or poorly sourced must be removed immediately from the article and its talk page, especially if potentially libellous. If such material is repeatedly inserted, or if you have other concerns, please report the issue to .If you are a subject of this article, or acting on behalf of one, and you need help, please see this help page.|
|This article is of interest to the following WikiProjects:|
Fair use rationale for Image:Renren123.jpg
Image:Renren123.jpg is being used on this article. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in this Wikipedia article constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use.
Please go to the image description page and edit it to include a fair use rationale. Using one of the templates at Wikipedia:Fair use rationale guideline is an easy way to insure that your image is in compliance with Wikipedia policy, but remember that you must complete the template. Do not simply insert a blank template on an image page.
If there is other fair use media, consider checking that you have specified the fair use rationale on the other images used on this page. Note that any fair use images lacking such an explanation can be deleted one week after being tagged, as described on criteria for speedy deletion. If you have any questions please ask them at the Media copyright questions page. Thank you.
Five Octave Vocal Range??
For some reason, it's popular to claim extreme vocal ranges for some singers, and in many cases, the claims are utterly ridiculous. Five octaves is extreme, and certainly wider than the range used by Haslem in any of her well-known recordings. Such a claim actually requires a citation of the lowest note (song, recording, and what note it is), and also, comparable citaton of the the highest note, and those notes must be at least as wide an interval as the claimed vocal range. In the absence of such confirming data, I plan to delete this claim. Feel free to provide actual data to back it up! Extraordinary claims require evidence. Most people seem to have no idea what it means to have a five-octave range. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 184.108.40.206 (talk) 20:18, 25 August 2010 (UTC)
RE: FIVE octave vocal range?
I am not a musician nor do I play one on TV. I do know a bit about vocal ranging and how it works in terms of Annie's voice and others.
There is a mechanism in the vocal system of humans that allows the air used to vibrate the vocal chords to resonate in two different groups of places. In rare instances, artists can enable both resonant chambers at the same time. The lower register of the human vocal range tends to resonate in the windpipe and throat (larynx)and mouth. Artists call this the "chest voice". The higher portion of the range uses the larynx, mouth and (believe it or not) the sinus cavities as the resonant chamber. This is what artists call the "head voice".
The trick comes when an artist is able to transition from the "chest voice" to the "head voice" without a noticeable change in voice timbre or other subtle characteristics. It is a difficult trick to perform, and Ms. Haslam has trained herself to perform this transition perfectly, making the "five octave vocal range" claim a very valid one.
One of the first things a vocal coach will do when taking on a new student is to determine the range of the chest voice and the transition point to the head voice, followed by the usable range of the head voice. Once this data is known, the coach can then concentrate on developing both voice ranges so that the singer can control volume, timbre, etc, of each "voice" equally well. The goal is to integrate both "voices" so that the transition cannot be determined by the audience.
A well-trained singer understands the components of the entire vocal system and how to control each of them from the diaphragm to the sinus cavities.
Moderators, please feel free to delete this post if it is inappropriate or in the wrong category.
References for this post are actually available on Wikipedia. "human voice" "vocal cords" "singing voice"
Reinstatement of five octave vocal range entry
Reasons why the entry stating that Annie Haslam has a five octave vocal range should be reinstated:
- The talk page section from "unsigned, August 2010" provides no substantive evidence that the subject does not have a five octave vocal range. He/she simply asserts that it is unlikely. (Yes, he/she was technically correct to remove that claim in the absence of a reliable reference.)
- I have found a suitable reference in the book The Strawberry Bricks Guide to Progressive Rock, Snider p. 207.
- Details of the subjects' lowest note, and highest note are not available at the moment, however they will be added soon to this talk page. To insist that citations re lowest, and highest notes be provided is unreasonable, and impractical since the place singers find their exact range is in the practice room. This room is not usually the source of reliable secondary evidence for other aspects of music, so why should it be mandated in this case.
- Re: "The talk page section from 'unsigned, August 2010' provides no substantive evidence that the subject does not have a five octave vocal range."
- The burden of proof logically falls on the party who makes the claim, not on the party that expresses skepticism. The deletion is not obliged to require "substantive evidence", but the insertion is.
- Re: "I have found a suitable reference in the book The Strawberry Bricks Guide to Progressive Rock"
- Extraordinary claims--and a claim for a five-octave singing range most certainly is extraordinary--require extraordinary evidence. This appears to be a book by a musically unqualified person merely repeating hearsay myth.
- Let's put this in perspective. Most pre-rock-era pop melodies have a range somewhere between an octave and a tenth (a couple of notes above an octave), and rock-era melodic ranges tend to be much smaller. Non-operatic singers who can successfully negotiate a thirteenth (which is still, in singing terms, significantly less than two octaves) are generally considered rare. See, for example, Stephen Sondheim about the part of Ann in A Little Night Music. There is no ordinary musical instrument other than the harp, certain keyboard instruments like the piano, and electronic instruments that has anywhere near (excluding the use of harmonics on string instruments) a five-octave range. Most have a range under three octaves. Optimum human hearing is less than ten octaves, and practical human hearing for most adults is considerably less, closer to eight octaves. Bear in mind as well, bear firmly in mind, that the ability to emit a low-pitched grunt and a high-pitched squeal is not the same as having a large singing range. TheScotch (talk) 06:30, 18 April 2016 (UTC)