Talk:Brown Lady of Raynham Hall

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A fact from Brown Lady of Raynham Hall appeared on Wikipedia's Main Page in the Did you know column on 31 October 2010 (check views). The text of the entry was as follows:

Did you know... that the British ghost The Brown Lady of Raynham Hall was photographed in 1936?

A record of the entry may be seen at Wikipedia:Recent additions/2010/October.

Wikipedia

Copying

I have restarted the article on the temporary sub page here Jack1956 (talk) 17:29, 31 October 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Hi. I appreciate the work on the rewrite, but I'm afraid that not all of the problematic content was identified. In the first edit, for example, this content was included:

The 'Brown Lady' has been sighted quite a few times over the years. She is so called because of the brown brocade dress she is supposedly seen wearing while wandering the halls and staircase of Ratnham Hall. In 1849 a Major Loftus and a friend named Hawkins claimed to see the ghost one night after retiring to bed, saying they were amazed by the old-fashioned clothing she wore. The next night Loftus claimed to see the figure once again, saying he took note of her empty eye-sockets. The incident resulted in several members of staff resigning and a full investigation of Raynham Hall involving local detectives.

This source says:

The Brown Lady of Raynham Hall has been seen quite a few times over the years. She is called the "Brown Lady" due to the brown brocade dress that the ghost has often been seen wearing while wandering the halls and staircase of Raynham Hall. 1849 - Major Loftus and a friend named Hawkins saw the ghost one night after retiring to bed. They both saw the woman and were amazed by the old fashioned clothing that she wore. The following night the Major was lucky enough to see the figure once again, this time he took note of her empty eye-sockets. The incident resulted in several members of staff resigning and a full investigation being done of Raynham Hall involving local detectives.

Some of this content, which follows quite closely, has been retained, including the nearly verbatim sentence "This sighting resulted in several members of staff resigning and a full investigation of Raynham Hall by local detectives."

Too, the rewrite retains considerable structure from [1]. While facts are not copyrightable, creative elements of presentation - including both structure and language - are. So that it will not constitute a derivative work, I believe the article needs additional rewriting. The essay Wikipedia:Close paraphrasing contains some suggestions for rewriting that may help avoid these issues. Wikipedia:Wikipedia Signpost/2009-04-13/Dispatches, while about plagiarism rather than copyright concerns, also contains some suggestions for reusing material from sources that may be helpful, beginning under "Avoiding plagiarism". I'll ask another copyright worker to take a look just to make sure that we agree about the ongoing issues. --Moonriddengirl ^(talk) 21:42, 9 November 2010 (UTC)[reply]

The analysis by Moonriddengirl is endorsed, I will relist the entry for another 7 days for tweaking. MLauba ^(Talk) 13:18, 10 November 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Yes, I see that. I over-looked that information. I will rewrite it. Sorry. Jack1956 (talk) 23:00, 11 November 2010 (UTC)[reply]

I've reviewed the latest rewrite and I feel it still follows too closely to the source. The paragraph about Captain Marryat bothers me some, although I'm having trouble pinpointing the most problematic areas. The presence of other accounts which don't strike me as similar here and here leads me to believe that it could be improved and further separated from the source. More worrisome, however, are the following paragraphs. For example, the article says:

On 19 September 1936 two photographers, Captain Hubert C. Provand and Indre Shira, were taking photographs of Raynham Hall for an article in Country Life magazine. Having taken a photograph of the Hall's main staircase they were preparing to take another when Shira noticed a misty figure on the stairs.

I've bolded the words which are identical to the source, which says:

Ten years later in 1936, the most famous event occurred in the dubios history of the haunting. Two professional photographers, Captain Provand and his assistant Indre Shira, were taking photographs of the hall for 'Country Life' magazine. The date was the 19th September, and at 4.00pm that afternoon they were photographing the Hall's main staircase. They had completed one exposure, and were preparing for another, when Shira saw a misty form ascending the stairs.

This is just one instance; the entire end of the article still follows the source very closely. I'm relisting the article for another 7 days. VernoWhitney (talk) 17:31, 19 November 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Statue of Virgin Mary?

Hasn't this been put forward as an opinion on what the photo subject actually is? I cannot be the only one who's read this. --98.246.156.76 (talk) 01:41, 5 March 2013 (UTC)[reply]

External links modified

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Another (Skeptical) Analysis

Linking this here rather than in the article so it can be disscussed before addition: http://www.xenophon.org.uk/indreshira.html ShakespeareFan00 (talk) 19:30, 7 November 2018 (UTC)[reply]