Talk:Cameron Boyce

Archives (Cameron's Clothing Line)

Since Archives was something Cameron was going to release prior to his death, how would we go about including that in the article? It had a pre-launch today, and I wanted to know where we would put this information. I wanted to check before just tacking it on incorrectly.

How did you find and take Cameron's infobox image?

I know it's from a Youtube video and that the video itself has the right licensing for Wikimedia but did you just take a screenshot? How did you input the info when uploading to Wikimedia Commons? Factfanatic1 (talk) 08:11, 8 June 2020 (UTC)

The file page appears to suggest it's a screenshot. - Purplewowies (talk) 16:51, 8 June 2020 (UTC)

Link to a Nepalese Translation

I have recently translated Cameron's Wikipedia page to Nepalese and would be grateful if you could link those two pages together. The link for the Nepalese page is ne.wikipedia.org/wiki/क्यामरन_बोइस CapricornxPisces (talk) 13:42, 31 July 2020 (UTC) — Preceding unsigned comment added by CapricornxPisces (talk • contribs)

@CapricornxPisces: Go to D:Q553704 and add the links there along with the rest of the other language wiki links. Geraldo Perez (talk) 17:08, 4 August 2020 (UTC)

@Geraldo Perez: Cameron Boyce's Wikidata page is semi-protected and this user doesn't have enough edits at that project to be autoconfirmed (they have 27 edits and Wikidata's threshold is 50 (plus the customary 4 days) for autoconfirmation). I only figured this out because I was going to be really courteous and do it for them but I also can't edit that page (I only have 3 edits at Wikidata, which is clearly not enough but I didn't realize my count there was so low) so I went snooping for what the autoconfirmed criteria were there. - Purplewowies (talk) 19:37, 4 August 2020 (UTC)

@CapricornxPisces and Purplewowies:  Done I added the link to Wikidata. There are other locations on that item that should be updated with Nepalese info but don't know the language so can't do any of that. Geraldo Perez (talk) 20:14, 4 August 2020 (UTC)

'legacy' section.

proposal for a legacy section to input information about the cameron boyce foundation, as it was established after his death and not part of his philanthropy while he was alive. thoughts? — Preceding unsigned comment added by Miadaisies (talk • contribs) 01:51, 22 October 2020 (UTC)

Fair since it was founded by others after his death. I do not think "legacy" is exactly fitting since it is only about the foundation (dedications were made in relation to his projects so seems more appropriate for career section), so I've added a subheading using the foundation's name. Vaselineeeeeeee^★★★ 02:39, 22 October 2020 (UTC)

Sourcing that he is Black & Jewish

User:Vaselineeeeeeee has reverted my edits including sourcing that he was Jewish and Black stating "it already says he was jewish and african american" and that "if his parents are that, he is that, no need to repeat it." It does not state anywhere that he is Jewish, other than in the categories at the bottom. I also have have sources to add regarding his Afro-Caribbean (paternal grandfather) and African American (maternal grandmother) background as well, but do not want to be reverted again. It is not as simple enough to state that if a parent is Jewish then the child will identify as Jewish as it is a question of self-identification since being Jewish can be classified as cultural, ethnic, and/or religious. Epson291 (talk) 20:16, 12 March 2021 (UTC)

In addition, User:Vaselineeeeeeee while changing and reverting it, changed it from stating that his mother is Jewish which is what it said perviously to me adding additional information to Cameron being of "Jewish descent" through his mother. To be of Jewish descent will generally mean the person is not Jewish. For example Category:People of Jewish descent. - Epson291 (talk) 20:31, 12 March 2021 (UTC)

Thanks for brining this here. I can see 'identifying' with regards to 'Jewish' depending on what sense of the word this means (is it faith-based ie. practicing, or is it just ethnic-based as you said). Do the sources you added specifically note this? If so, this would probably be better written as "Boyce has stated he is a practicing Jew" or "Boyce has stated that he is a non-practicing ethnic Jew" etc. I do not think "identifies as" is the right terminology in this case. Vaselineeeeeeee^★★★ 20:37, 12 March 2021 (UTC)

Because Jews are an ethnoreligious group, people might have a wide variety or religious practices. The terms "practicing Jew" or "ethnic Jew" are generally not terms used by Jews. Since one can be Jewish while simultaneously being an atheist with no contradiction, the term practicing Jew does not make sense. That term is generally applied to Christianity. The term ethnic Jew is also not generally used by Jews, rather terms like Ashkenazi Jewish or Sephardi Jewish. Lastly, the term Jewish is preferred to the word Jew. Epson291 (talk) 20:55, 12 March 2021 (UTC)

Ok. But it doesn't matter what you or I think it matters what the source specifies. I haven't looked at every one you added, so can you summarize exactly what they say here about his descent? Vaselineeeeeeee^★★★ 21:10, 12 March 2021 (UTC)

The sources are direct quotes and in one he states he is Jewish and Black ("I’m Black and I’m Jewish. So you know, me and Drake, we got that in common.") and the other one he states that he is Jewish and African-American ("being African American and Jewish, ..."). If you prefer, instead of saying "identifies as" we could say "described himself as" which is what is currently being done on the Scarlett Johansson page for someone similar who identifies as Jewish and has a Jewish mother and non-Jewish father. - Epson291 (talk) 21:18, 12 March 2021 (UTC)

His ancestry is mixed. Like most people he uses Black and African-American as synonyms even if by ancestry only one grandparent was actually sourced as African-American, the other on his father's side was African-Caribbean so African descent is the only common part - thus Black. On his mother's side all that is know is she identified as Jewish. Not shown how her parents identified whether it was both or just her mother. Not shown if her Jewish descent was via Russia, Germany, Spain. Boyce picks Jewish for himself. How he self-identifies is important as it is not something that can be derived accurately from what is given from his ancestry as sourced. Geraldo Perez (talk) 21:34, 12 March 2021 (UTC)

I think if he identified as something other than African American or Jewish, which he is by ancestry, this would be notable, but to repeat that he identifies as his own ancestry doesn't make a whole lot of sense to me. I think Johansson's case is a bit different because we know what kind of Jewish she is, and she also has that ancestry based on several different countries. Drake's page makes no mention of how he describes or identifies himself as. Presumably he has given interviews where he mentions his ethnic background, but doesn't specifically say "I identify as...", just as Boyce did not use this wording he just said what his background was. I don't say my background is Italian and I identify as Italian as it is redundant. Vaselineeeeeeee^★★★ 21:44, 12 March 2021 (UTC)

He is just as much African Caribbean as he is African American. He picked one. It is not redundant to say what he picked when he is both. Geraldo Perez (talk) 21:50, 12 March 2021 (UTC)

He probably just left it out because often in North America African Caribbean and African American are grouped together, or because he was specifically making a comparison to Drake. He never specifically said he "identified" as blank, and he also never said "I am African American and Jewish, but you know I don't really identify with being African Caribbean", so I am reluctant to put a difintive like that in his article without knowing his whole perception. Vaselineeeeeeee^★★★ 21:58, 12 March 2021 (UTC)

I'm not exactly sure what your point regarding being Italian is but Jewish identity is not exactly the same as being Italian and/or of Italian heritage. Also I recommend Who is a Jew. The article on Drake mentions instead that he went to a Jewish day school and had a bar mitzvah. The full quote from Boyce is "Being African American and Jewish, I have plenty of ancestors and family members that I can look to for strength, and more importantly, for a grateful outlook on life. Every one of them clawed and scratched for my sister and I to be in the position we’re in today." - Epson291 (talk) 22:02, 12 March 2021 (UTC)

Yeah, from that one quote, I'm just not convinced he doesn't also 'identify' as being African Caribbean. A definitive like that shouldn't be made based off of one quote (see WP:INTERVIEW as WP:PRIMARY, as secondary sources are generally preferred) if we do not know if say he misspoke or couldn't elaborate, or if it was in a certain context, etc. Vaselineeeeeeee^★★★ 22:19, 12 March 2021 (UTC)

Are you suggesting he misspoke and did not actually consider himself Jewish? Here is the interview you removed where he also says he is Jewish. (Though before you said it was not necessary to mention it since it says he is Jewish by extension of his mother). Also, "if his parents are that, he is that" does not apply as for example, someone with a Jewish father might consider themselves Jewish but others might not (since traditionally it's passed matrilineally) or vice versa someone might not consider themselves Jewish because they see it as a culture, even if others perceive them as Jewish. In this context, I am only talking about self-identification. Lastly WP:Interview is not a policy or a guideline. And quoting WP:Primary is a misunderstanding of the policy. It is not original research to use his quote in this way. As for secondary sources, here is an article which mentions he is Jewish. As for the part about the Caribbean he said, "I know my grandfather is from the Caribbean. And my grandmother is… You know, I’m sure they both have lineage in Africa because I’m Black. I like to say that I’m Bl-ewish, I’m Black and I’m Jewish.” - Epson291 (talk) 22:37, 12 March 2021 (UTC)

Sorry, you are referring to the African Caribbean part. We cannot perhaps make a determination since Black, African American, African, and Caribbean are sometimes used interchangeably. - Epson291 (talk) 22:40, 12 March 2021 (UTC)

Also, I hope it's okay, I reverted the article to what it was before the discussion, other than the additional sources and stating that it was his paternal grandfather who was from the Caribbean. I can revert it if it's no good. - Epson291 (talk) 22:57, 12 March 2021 (UTC)

Yeah, so that quote about his grandfather being Caribbean but he's sure they have lineage in Africa shows that his perception is that African American or black are the same thing and that it's not that he doesn't identify or describe himself with his Caribbean descent, he just uses the all-encompassing term to express that side of his descent. With regards to the Jewish part, given we don't know all the details about the origins of his Jewish side, I still don't think it is necessary to state that he describes himself as being Jewish. Thanks for reverting back to the longwithstanding version plus the sources - I think that version is best. Vaselineeeeeeee^★★★ 23:03, 12 March 2021 (UTC)

Change early to personal?

So I don't know if there's a policy or guideline that dictates what's "early" versus "personal" life but a revert removed an addition of "personal" with the justification of apparently his whole life being "early" since he died at 20 (which is why I'm opening discussion instead of being bold), but... I dunno, this feels like it's a little off, technically some later things in that section are not early in his life (particularly, say, the part that happened months before his death), and honestly (though this is a little WP:OTHERSTUFFEXISTS) there are high quality articles about young people that include personal life sections, either separate from early or instead of it (the only one I can easily and quickly bring to mind in SPECIFIC is Dylan and Cole Sprouse, which is currently rated a GA and has had a personal life section since before they were 20... but is also much larger than this article).

I don't know. I guess it just feels like "personal life" would fit better for the information currently in the section, but I'd welcome an interpretation that "early life" makes sense, just as well, I just don't think "he was 20 so everything is early life" is a good rationale. - Purplewowies (talk) 00:20, 13 March 2021 (UTC)

The second paragraph is not too far off of info that is included in early life sections (ie. info about growing up as a child or adolescent / activities etc.). Personal life sections are also usually included much further down the article due to chronology and lesser importance. If the "personal life" wording is still wanted, then the second paragraph in the current early life section should be moved down with the added title. Vaselineeeeeeee^★★★ 02:34, 13 March 2021 (UTC)

Dancer being an occupation

Since Cameron Boyce was also a dancer, should this be mentioned in the lead and placed into the Category:African-American male dancers and Category:American male dancers? Or is it not notable enough? 2001:569:7F96:EE00:21AE:29B:E08A:1BB8 (talk) 20:01, 13 February 2022 (UTC)

He was an actor who could dance, not an uncommon skill for actors, and did so mostly in his acting roles. It was not a separate notable occupation. Geraldo Perez (talk) 20:15, 13 February 2022 (UTC)

Agreed – he seems to have never been hired to be "just a dancer". He was always hired as "an actor who dances". --IJBall (contribs • talk) 20:50, 13 February 2022 (UTC)

The most recogniced series

Descendants and Jessie 2800:810:454:8765:4B:131B:ACD2:4C65 (talk) 11:39, 30 April 2022 (UTC)