Talk:Crossroads Kitchen

notability tag

Hey, Citrivescence! The restaurant has appeared in multiple 'best of nation' lists in various reliable nationally-distributed sources like USA Today, Tasting Table, Travel & Leisure, etc. I believe it qualifies as notable. Why are you thinking it's not? --valereee (talk) 08:29, 2 April 2019 (UTC)

@Valereee: I would like to see some local Los Angeles media that claims that Crossroads Kitchen is magnifico. I would like to see some narrative about who and what makes LA's Crossroads Kitchen so 'ubervegan'! Nice article, but what are we considering? Does any restaurant or vegetarian media include it in a print or online listing? How many seats does it have? Is it a celebrity hangout in LA? MaynardClark (talk) 13:04, 2 April 2019 (UTC)

@Valereee: It is included on many lists, but the mentions are fairly routine and per WP:PRODUCTREV those don't establish notability. I tagged it because I'm unsure and so I've decided to leave it to someone with more experience. I've been new page patrolling for just about 4 months and haven't come across a page where the business is on several lists but doesn't have significant coverage. Citrivescence (talk) 14:28, 2 April 2019 (UTC)

Citrivescence, those kinds of shorter mentions wouldn't prove notability if they were in local sources -- best of LA, for instance, wouldn't do it. But multiple reliable sources are calling it one of the best in the nation, which seems to make it clearly notable. I don't like to remove this tag myself as article creator, but I understand if you aren't comfortable with it yet either. WP:PRODUCTREV, while it comes closest to addressing this issue that I could find too, unfortunately doesn't address "best of the nation" sources, which aren't the same as reviews. "Best of nation" lists by definition only cover each list member in brief. I've written maybe five similar articles; although I've found probably twenty+ locally-notable vegan fine-dining restaurants, only a few of them made multiple 'best of nation' lists. This was one of those few, so I wrote this article. If you look at my user page you'll see a list of probably fifteen others which I've found on one or two or even three 'best of nation' lists, which I felt wasn't quite enough to prove notability. This one made 7 "best of nation" lists, which I felt was enough.

Citrivescence, I've asked a question at Wikipedia_talk:Notability_(organizations_and_companies)#"best_in_nation/world"_lists_of_restaurants_in_reliable_sources? --valereee (talk) 13:47, 3 April 2019 (UTC)

@Valereee: Thank you for listing it there. I think once we get perspective from other editors it will clear up the issue. Citrivescence (talk) 15:42, 3 April 2019 (UTC)

MaynardClark as per above, articles in local reliable sources can be used to expand this article. I don't generally include them when first creating such article because our first question is always notability, and purely-local sources can't be used to prove notability, so a bunch of local sources can actually make it harder for other editors to see that this restaurant is indeed notable. I generally wait until it's clear that multiple editors have seen the article and haven't had an issue with notability. If any editor has an issue with notability, I like to get that concern addressed first. I haven't found any free-use photos; perhaps someone who lives in LA will upload one eventually. --valereee (talk) 12:25, 3 April 2019 (UTC)

@Valereee: Is there perhaps a photo of the restaurant or of Tal Ronnen? MaynardClark (talk) 14:55, 2 April 2019 (UTC)

Citrivescence I agree and believe with valereee that Crossroads Kitchen qualifies as notable in celebrity culture and as a model of how celebrity chefs like to present vegan and vegetarian cuisine - 'as not boring' (not the article on Oprah Winfrey where that was explicit as a theme. My own views on what 'good food' ought to be (evidence based supporting human health long-term, affordable, culturally competent on tasks, not harmful to self or animals or ecosystem or laborers) may not be in play as we think about whether or not notability applies to a celebrity restaurant (since my views on celebrities would not be in play here - we don't need nearly as many 'celebrities' since life isn't about celebrating celebrities). As a 'celebrated' vegetarian restaurant, I found that Tal Ronnen has spoken by invitation several times at various vegetarian conferences. MaynardClark (talk) 20:10, 3 April 2019 (UTC)

• I think there is enough coverage, particularly the long piece in Los Angeles (magazine), to remove the notability tag.E.M.Gregory (talk) 19:50, 5 April 2019 (UTC)

Location, Location, Location

I see the street address, but where in Los Angeles is the restaurant situated? MaynardClark (talk) 16:15, 5 April 2019 (UTC)

First among equals, or merely another good-to-great vegan restaurant?

Is Crossroads Kitchen really quite notable as a truly GREAT vegan restaurant, or a 'first among equals' (vegan restaurants), which could be merely another good-to-great vegan restaurant? If it is EITHER (i) notably GREAT because celebrities dined there (is that an argument?) OR (ii) something representatively 'first' among other good-to-great vegan restaurants in Los Angeles, can we say that without diminishing the article? In any case, I agree with keeping the article. MaynardClark (talk) 18:38, 5 April 2019 (UTC)

References