Talk:Dennis Nilsen

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Although[edit]

  • His attendance record was mediocre, although he frequently volunteered to work overtime.
  • He made no efforts to seek sexual contact with any of the peers to whom he was sexually attracted, although he later said he had been fondled by an older youth.
  • Although means "despite the fact that".

Are we comfortable that "His attendance record was mediocre, despite the fact that he frequently volunteered to work overtime." and "He made no efforts to seek sexual contact with any of the peers to whom he was sexually attracted, despite the fact that he later said he had been fondled by an older youth." are how these sentences may be read? The second is particularly egregious, I think. --John (talk) 07:26, 16 May 2018 (UTC)

Both look absolutely fine to me. These are both surface level behavioural comparisons, although we don't know really know what was going on in his mind. Martinevans123 (talk) 07:42, 16 May 2018 (UTC)
The first one is fine, in my opinion, because it's contrasting a positive with a negative. The second one does need some rewording, but it depends on the sources. "Although" is okay if the sources indicate that Nilsen claimed to have been fondled in order to show that he did have voluntary sexual contact with his peers, because it contrasts his known behaviour with his later claims/excuses, but it wouldn't be okay if Nilsen was claiming sexual assault of some kind. I don't have the Coffey book used as a reference for that statement - can anyone check the context? Marianna251TALK 08:10, 16 May 2018 (UTC)
That's a fair point. I suspect both are simply reported neutrally. Martinevans123 (talk) 08:46, 16 May 2018 (UTC)
Nonetheless, I do have the book. It harks to his claims in History of a Drowning Boy regarding what he refers to as 'embryonic sex games' he witnessed as a child and early adolescent in which he occasionally saw local boys pin down girls and "feel under their clothes" with or without their consent. He claims that occasionally boys would do the same to younger boys, and that he found this exciting, with it once happening to him. He claims he didn't find the experience unpleasant, "although" (my insertion of the word) he was annoyed because the boy was older and stronger than he..--Kieronoldham (talk) 00:28, 17 May 2018 (UTC)
That's really useful, thank you. It looks like Nilsen isn't claiming sexual assault (although I'd say it was, personally, but that's OR), so what are people's thoughts on amending the sentence to read: "He made no efforts to seek sexual contact with any of the peers to whom he was sexually attracted, although he later said he had been fondled by an older youth and did not find the experience unpleasant" for clarity? Marianna251TALK 11:56, 17 May 2018 (UTC)
Agree. I think that's an improvement. Martinevans123 (talk) 12:28, 17 May 2018 (UTC)
Great - change made. Marianna251TALK 19:06, 17 May 2018 (UTC)
Good job. If you have any other questions, feel free to ask. Thanks.--Kieronoldham (talk) 00:16, 18 May 2018 (UTC)

"Kindly Killer"[edit]

A quick Google search for "The Kindly Killer" + "Nilsen" yields "About 13,900 results." And the article itself currently says: "Great Crimes and Trials of the 20th Century S02E15 "The Kindly Killer" (1993), commissioned by the BBC"? Doesn't it belong in the infobox? Thanks. Martinevans123 (talk) 18:49, 17 May 2018 (UTC)

Ugh, I hate that nickname (what the hell is kind about killing?) but it does seem to be notable. I've no objection to its inclusion in the infobox. Marianna251TALK 19:06, 17 May 2018 (UTC)
What's kind? Maybe you need to ask The Good Doctor? Martinevans123 (talk) 22:09, 17 May 2018 (UTC)
Or MC Hammer, maybe... Marianna251TALK 22:40, 17 May 2018 (UTC)