Talk:Diet in diabetes

Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment

This article was the subject of a Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment, between 18 November 2019 and 14 December 2019. Further details are available on the course page. Student editor(s): Gklap. Peer reviewers: Callthedoc23.

Above undated message substituted from Template:Dashboard.wikiedu.org assignment by PrimeBOT (talk) 20:03, 17 January 2022 (UTC)

Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment

This article is or was the subject of a Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment. Further details are available on the course page. Student editor(s): Avocados919.

Above undated message substituted from Template:Dashboard.wikiedu.org assignment by PrimeBOT (talk) 19:28, 16 January 2022 (UTC)

WikiMed Medical Student Project

Hello, I am a 4th year medical student at the Medical University of South Carolina working on this page for my WikiMedicine project. My plan is to improve this article by adding new guidelines and research that have been published since this article was first created. My goal is to make this page easier to follow, provide reliable sources, and link the page to other relevant Wikipedia pages.

Plan:

• Add more up to date information and references eg: the American Diabetes Association consensus report in 2019
• Update with review references not just primary sources
• Add more information about the differences and similarities between type I and type II diabetes in regard to diet
• Improve organization and flow of the article
• Up date links to national and governmental guidelines
• Reference patient targeted sources to reduce jargon and unnecessary complexity

--Gklap (talk) 20:48, 18 November 2019 (UTC)

Sounds like a good plan! --Emilybrennan (talk) 14:08, 25 November 2019 (UTC)

PEER REVIEW by Callthedoc23 Overall great article, with lots of useful information. The article is neutral and I didn't see any unbiased sources. You did a great job including ADA recommendations. The only criticism I have is try to shorten your sentences. There are a lot of long sentences that I felt were hard to read. They are great for a scientific article but not here. For example: "People with diabetes can eat any food that they want, preferably a healthy diet with some carbohydrates, but they need to be more cognizant of the carbohydrate content of foods and avoid simple sugars like juices and sugar sweetened beverages." There are a lot of long sentences like this with 3 or more conjunctions or ideas that could be separated and simplified. This way anyone can find it easier to read. The only other section that needs work is the alcohol and drugs section. The language does not match the rest of the article and the facts sound more opinionated. Also clarify if the article is referring to drugs or medications cause the first thing I thought of was that people with diabetes can do drugs (ie street drugs) but then the next sentence refers to drugs as in meds. Otherwise great article. I felt that you did a good job improving the organization. Keep up the good work. @Gklap: Callthedoc23 (talk) 14:09, 9 December 2019 (UTC)

Improving English

As of tonight (February 19), I have just improved the section on "Carbohydrates" - stating that "a prime example" sounds both more encyclopaedic and academic than to say "the classic example". There may be other examples of need for English in this article to be improved, too. ACEOREVIVED (talk) 20:26, 19 February 2009 (UTC)

"People with diabetes are also encouraged to eat small frequent meals a day". This is a quote from the article, but I think it could be improved. I think it would be clearer if the words "small frequent meals a day" were replaced with "small frequent meals each day". Vorbee (talk) 17:43, 8 January 2018 (UTC)

Controversy

"There is much controversy" we read in the first sentence, about the diet to recommend to people with diabetes. This article is a case in point; it has undergone considerable revision since I first created it. This is what I meant to type here and absent-mindedly put in the article! ACEOREVIVED (talk) 20:49, 18 January 2010 (UTC)

There is no serious argument that insulin isn't needed for Type 1 diabetics, or that weight loss and exercise don't help Type 2 diabetics. The fact that there is so much heated argument over what diet is ideal suggests to me that no diet is ideal. Although there seems little argument, except perhaps from the Bernstein crowd (Bernstein is Type 1) that soluble fiber is a good thing to have in the diet.

Perhaps this article would benefit from making the distinction between Type 1 and Type 2 diabetes more clearly. They're really not the same disease. Yaush (talk) 19:49, 16 March 2010 (UTC)

Albeit the etiologies, or causes, of Type 1 (development of antibodies, etc.) and Type 2 (Family History and obesity) are very different, I believe there is sufficient evidence that the complications of Type 1 and Type 2 are similar in that they both lead to high glucose levels that have dire implications on the cardiovascular system (along with the eyes, kidneys and nervous system especially in diabetics). It makes sense that the control of diet in diabetes has some similarity to the diets for those with cardiovascular disease--low in saturated fats, higher fruits and vegetables, and low salt consumption. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Jammerino (talk • contribs) 18:15, 17 March 2010 (UTC)

Nutrisystem D

The nurtisystem d plan should be discussed in this article if someone can find concrete information to provide. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Cooly123 (talk • contribs) 14:11, 31 January 2010 (UTC)

Did some one's diabetes really disappear?

I am a little skeptical that the woman's son's diabetes really disappeared - as diabetes is a chronic condition. What do others who know about this topic think? ACEOREVIVED (talk) 22:28, 11 March 2010 (UTC)

I, too, am skeptical. Type 1 diabetes is almost impossible to control by diet alone; Type 2 diabetics can get some significant improvement from diet and exercise, but the best that can really be said is that their diabetes is tightly controlled, not cured. Yaush (talk) 19:47, 16 March 2010 (UTC)

WP:MEDRS

This article needs to be written to comply with MEDRS. Review articles need to be used and the mainstream POV needs to be given. Here are some review articles:

• Vaughan L (2005). "Dietary guidelines for the management of diabetes". Nurs Stand. 19 (44): 56–64, quiz 66. PMID 16048207.
• Franz MJ (2004). "Prioritizing diabetes nutrition recommendations based on evidence". Minerva Med. 95 (2): 115–23. PMID 15272246. {{cite journal}}: Unknown parameter |month= ignored (help)
• Stanton C, Phillips P (2005). "Dietary dilemmas in diabetes". Aust Fam Physician. 34 (6): 455–8. PMID 15931404. {{cite journal}}: Unknown parameter |month= ignored (help)
• Katsilambros N, Liatis S, Makrilakis K (2006). "Critical review of the international guidelines: what is agreed upon--what is not?". Nestle Nutr Workshop Ser Clin Perform Programme. 11: 207–18, discussion 218. doi:10.1159/000094453. PMID 16820742.{{cite journal}}: CS1 maint: multiple names: authors list (link)--Doc James (talk · contribs · email) 12:35, 27 May 2010 (UTC)

Can this article please stop misleading people with its liberal use of terms "vegan" and "vegetarian"?

This article says that evidence suggests diabetes may be lower in vegetarians, and then says that some studies have attempted vegan interventions. This is misleading, as vegetarianism and veganism are not synonyms. It would also be more sensible if this article explained WHY diabetes may be lower in vegetarians - presumably, because their diet is likely to be high in dietary fibre. Finally, could this article please point out that diabetes should not prevent people from becoming vegetarians? I may add the source when I find a book which states this. ACEOREVIVED (talk) 19:44, 29 March 2011 (UTC)

Thoughts on picture welcome

I had not looked at this article for a long time, then saw the picture. This, I think, improves the article, but I shall welcome comments on whether the picture is placed in the best position in the article.ACEOREVIVED (talk) 19:38, 3 May 2011 (UTC)

Are potatoes and rice high glycemic foods?

Are rice and potatoes really high glycemic foods? ACEOREVIVED (talk) 15:06, 19 July 2011 (UTC)

Does it not depend on how the spuds are cooked - with mashed potato being higher on the glycemic index than jacket potatoes? ACEOREVIVED (talk) 15:07, 19 July 2011 (UTC)

They are quite high on the glycemic index. Their starch is digested rather rapidly to glucose. Sucrose is not as high on the glycemic index as one migh suppose; its fructose content takes time to metabolize. The manner of cooking makes some difference, as does the age of the potatoes; very young potatoes are lower on the glycemic index. --Yaush (talk) 15:10, 19 July 2011 (UTC)

Cinammon, lemon juice and vinegar

We may need to find an external link for this claim, but it has long been my belief that adding cinnamon to foods on diabetic diets helps to ease blood sugar in control. Also, the book "The Okinawa Way" does point out that although the jury is still out on this, it has been claimed that adding lemon juice to food helps to control blood sugar (I think that I have read similar claims for vinegar). If we could find reliable sources for these claims, they could be added to the article if no objects. ACEOREVIVED (talk) 14:35, 5 October 2011 (UTC)

I think there may be something to the claim that short-chain fatty acids help sugar control (http://www.nature.com/nature/journal/v217/n5131/abs/217853a0.html). However, we need good cites linking this finding to the citric acid in lemon juice and acetic acid in vinegar before putting anything in the article, lest it violate WP:OR. The claim that cinnamon helps diabetes has been seriously questioned (http://care.diabetesjournals.org/content/31/1/41.short) and I would object to putting anything about it in the article. --Yaush (talk) 14:53, 5 October 2011 (UTC)

The article on vinegar says something about how vinegar may reduce the glycemic index of foods. ACEOREVIVED (talk) 23:31, 8 May 2012 (UTC)

Which drugs?

In the section entitled "Alcohol and drugs" we are told that "Some drugs inhibit hunger control". Which drugs do this? Greater specification is needed here. ACEOREVIVED (talk) 23:01, 5 October 2011 (UTC)

Concern over External links section

I am rather concerned over the "External Links" section. There must be many external links out there which do tell what suitable diets for diabetics are, but the links listed in the "External Links" section of this article do not seem to be doing this. ACEOREVIVED (talk) 19:48, 11 October 2011 (UTC)

More appropriate external links might be:

http://www.nlm.nih.gov/medlineplus/diabeticdiet.html

http://www.diabetes.co.uk/diet-basics.html

http://www.netdoctor.co.uk/diabetes/managing/diet_and_diabetes_000686.htm

http://www.everydiet.org/diet/diabetic-diet

These all have a high Google search, but one has to be careful - at least one site with a high Google search is on Wikipedia's blacklist. I shall leave it to others to judge the quality of these sites. There may be some reference to the exchange system in some of these sites, something which is not covered very fully in the article as it currently stands.ACEOREVIVED (talk) 10:02, 12 October 2011 (UTC)

OK, I have now added an external link which I believe is to www.diabtes.org.uk - so I doubt it will be on Wikipedia's black list. ACEOREVIVED (talk) 19:52, 20 October

2011 (UTC)

One has to be careful too - I have just found that a quick Google search leads to over two million web pages if one types in "Diabetic Diet", but obviously, one will need to be an expert in these matters to judge their quality. ACEOREVIVED (talk) 22:17, 1 February 2012 (UTC)

About the vegan external link

I have just put in an external link based on what the Diabetes U.K. website says about veganism. However, I would advise people not to pay too much attention to all the comments that appear below the main body of this external link - I am very skeptical that, as one person who typed in commented, diabetes can be cured in thirty days by following a vegan diet. I have just sent an e-mail to Diabetes U.K. indicating my skepticism myself. Please note - this dubious claim was not from Diabetes U.K. themselves, it was from some one who typed in with a comment. ACEOREVIVED (talk) 10:45, 26 October 2011 (UTC)

Reference for exchange scheme

This website:

http://www.netdoctor.co.uk/dietandnutrition/managing/diet_and_diabetes_000686.htm

might contain some useful information on the exchange scheme. ACEOREVIVED (talk) 20:44, 14 December 2011 (UTC)

Paleolithic diabetic diet

There seems to have been a lot of controversy, from looking at the history of this article, over whether it should include a reference to something called the "Paleolithic Diabetic diet". I know nothing about this myself, so would not wish to put in the article, but would be happy to have it put in if any one can find reliable sources for it. ACEOREVIVED (talk) 20:26, 11 January 2012 (UTC)

Saturated fats

Where did the rather odd claim "That it is vitally important that a diet be low in saturated fats only if consuming grain products" come from? Personally, I saw this as a stupid and unverified claim and would like this to be removed from the article - any one agree?ACEOREVIVED (talk) 11:22, 19 January 2012 (UTC)

It is an odd and unverified claim. Go ahead and remove it. --Yaush (talk) 15:49, 19 January 2012 (UTC)

Thank you for the feedback. I have now taken your advice and removed the claim. ACEOREVIVED (talk) 21:16, 19 January 2012 (UTC)

Congratulations to David J. Park

I see that David J. Park has said that his edit was his first ever edit. I just wished to congratulate him - looking at the history of the article, you did a good job there in making the meaning more precise! ACEOREVIVED (talk) 16:05, 31 January 2012 (UTC)

Yes, it was a good edit. However, the congratulations would have been more appropriate at his talk page. I encourage you to move this section there. --Yaush (talk) 16:17, 31 January 2012 (UTC)

Possible external link

This reference (online):

http://www.symptomfind.com/nutrition-supplements/diabetes-nutrition-tips/

lists six foods which the author of the reference considers good for diabetics. If any one else thinks it is worth adding to this article, it could go in the references at the end. ACEOREVIVED (talk) 12:02, 14 March 2012 (UTC)

I just tried to look at this link from my office, and the institutional NetNanny blocked it. That's never a good sign. --Yaush (talk) 14:03, 14 March 2012 (UTC)

Notes on the exchange scheme

Good to see that this article does refer to the exchange scheme (I would have left a comment complaining about an omission on this very talk page if it had not). However, I have a feeling that the exchange scheme is not used very much these days. Am I correct? If this went into the article in the appropriate place, this would help to update the article. ACEOREVIVED (talk) 19:13, 2 May 2012 (UTC)

Need to refer to DAFNE

Several years ago, a very popular approach for the diet of Type One diabetics was known by the acronym DAFNE - Dose Adjustment for Normal Eating. There was later an approach introduced for dietary control in Type Two diabetics called DESMOND - another acronym, but I forget what that stood for! These approaches have not had sufficient attention in this article, and some who knows about them should put them in. ACEOREVIVED (talk) 12:54, 12 June 2012 (UTC)

OK, a quick Google search soon told me what DESMOND stands for - Diabetes Education and Self-Management for On-Going and Newly Diagnosed (diabetics), as can be found, for examaple, on:

http://www.patient.co.uk/doctor/Diabetes-Diet-and-Exercise.htm

This is an intervention programme for Type Two diabetics. ACEOREVIVED (talk) 14:10, 12 June 2012 (UTC)

I agree that a mention of these would be appropriate. Be bold. --Yaush (talk) 15:03, 12 June 2012 (UTC)

It seems that DAFNE has its own website at:

http://www.dafne.uk.com/

I may add information about it when I have looked more diligently at the website. ACEOREVIVED (talk) 19:32, 12 June 2012 (UTC)

Nothing for this Details

What ever were the details "Nothing for this Details" added to the "See also" section for? That is a red wikilink, so there is no article with that title in Wikipedia, and I am tempted to remove this (which I may well do if there are no objections). ACEOREVIVED (talk) 15:47, 25 July 2012 (UTC)

It appears to be vandalism. I've removed it. --Yaush (talk) 17:52, 25 July 2012 (UTC)

Should we get rid of some of the external links?

I wonder whether some of the external links appending this article should be removed from the article. A lot of them are not about the diabetic diet per se, but about diabetes mellitus in general. I wonder whether a better place for these external links would be under the article Diabetes management. ACEOREVIVED (talk) 10:33, 12 September 2012 (UTC)

The following link:

http://www.diabetes.org.uk/Guide-to-diabetes/Food_and_recipes/?gclid=CNPd3N_rr7ICFYYNfAod3hcAVw

is probably more closely allied with the subject of the diabetic diet. ACEOREVIVED (talk) 10:36, 12 September 2012 (UTC)

Makes sense to me, and your link looks reasonably good. Go for it. --Yaush (talk) 14:19, 12 September 2012 (UTC)

Effects of lemon juice and vinegar

This article does not appear to point out that adding either lemon juice or vinegar to a meal may help to reduce the rate at which sugar is absorbed into the bloodstream. I can find some references for this information then I may well add it to this article. ACEOREVIVED (talk) 10:00, 21 November 2012 (UTC)

OK - I have now found a source for the information about vinegar, so I have added it to the article. ACEOREVIVED (talk) 11:43, 21 November 2012 (UTC)

I've seen the claim, too, but you need a better source than a health newsletter. I strongly encourage you to look up the peer-reviewed journal publication with the claim and use it as the source instead. --Yaush (talk) 15:50, 21 November 2012 (UTC)

I am pretty sure that it was the book "The Okinawa Way" where I first read the claim about lemon juice - I do not know whether consider this is an OK source (the authors of this book do appear to be academics who have their academic credentials about them). ACEOREVIVED (talk) 16:51, 21 November 2012 (UTC)

It's not a peer-reviewed journal source, which would be preferable. My recollection is that this claim was studied at the University of Minnesota; the associated publications would be appropriate sources. --Yaush (talk) 17:36, 21 November 2012 (UTC)

Use of American English

Should there be a tag to say that this article uses American English? I presume it does - I have noticed that it spells "Fibre" (we spell it that way on my side of the Atlantic) as "Fiber". Or is so much of Wikipedia in American English that people do not think this is necessary? ACEOREVIVED (talk) 08:17, 24 April 2013 (UTC)

Somogyi Effect

Talk about the Somogyi effect and it's relevance to nighttime symptoms. Amn31337 (talk) 23:46, 24 February 2015 (UTC)

Good suggestion! I've added it to Diabetic_diet#Timing_of_meals Lime0life (talk) 00:03, 25 February 2015 (UTC)

Vegan, Vegetarian, and Health Benefits

It may be a good idea to clarify the statements in the article about the assumed benefits (i.e., to indicate the specific aspects of such diets that are beneficial). Numerous reviews show that many individuals to conform to Vegan diets compensate (modify) their diets with high levels of carbohydrates and simple sugars, including desserts. etc. Hence, some reviews showing a higher level of obesity among vegans than vegetarians (those that consume some animal products such as milk and eggs). The aspects of a vegan diet that are specific to low-carb, low-GI/GL vegetables are most likely beneficial for diabetic diets, but the other aspects of vegan diets (simple sugars, high-carbs) are definitely not. My concern is that the article, as currently written, may lead readers to assume that vegan diets (in total) are beneficial for diabetics. The facts appear to be that only certain aspects of vegan diets are beneficial, while other aspects are quite detrimental. My suggestion is that the section regarding the vegan diet clarifies this. Tesseract501 (talk) 16:40, 8 January 2016 (UTC)

    Further clarification ... it may be better to separate the Vegetarian diet aspects from the Vegan-diet aspects.  For diabetic diets, there may be greater benefits from a Vegetarian diet (which includes some animal products such as milk, eggs, cheeses) -- which may minimize cravings and compensation with low-fiber, high-carb simple sugars found in some vegan diets.  The latter being adverse to diabetic diets.  Tesseract501 (talk) 16:43, 8 January 2016 (UTC)

I am planning on editing this section! I have some sources demonstrating how a plant based diet can be beneficial for the prevention and treatment of Type 2 diabetes. Hogan.jac (talk) 23:44, 18 March 2018 (UTC)

Could the section on vegetarian and vegan diets say that vegan diets might help Type Two diabetes because it might help weight loss?Vorbee (talk) 08:22, 13 September 2018 (UTC)

Section on the benefits of low fat diets for diabetics

I would like to add a section on the benefits of low fat diets on glycemic control. There is evidence that high fat diets (even when low in carbohydrates) does not increase insulin secretion or increase glucose toleranceLink. In fact, low fat diets and low carbohydrate diets have the same effect on glycemic control after a one year period Link to study. Given the traditional focus on decreasing carbohydrate consumption to treat diabetes, I think this presents an interesting viewpoint. Do you think there is currently enough evidence on low fat diets to support this? -- Avocados919 (talk) 23:56, 9 May 2018 (UTC)

Those are primary sources. We use secondary sources for content about health. See WP:MEDDEF and all of WP:MEDRS. Jytdog (talk) 01:28, 10 May 2018 (UTC)

Ray Kurzweil?

Why is Ray Kurzweil, a futurist with no distinction in diet or health care, given prominence in the section on Low-carbohydrate alternatives, while similar outsiders are not? His changeable theories belong in a section on eccentric alternatives with other such ideas. I would delete him until such a section is prepared (if ever). Zaslav (talk) 01:54, 2 June 2018 (UTC)

Sucrose Glycemia

In the Diabetic_diet#Carbohydrates section, there's a reference to this statement:

• Sucrose does not increase glycemia more than the same number of calories taken as starch.

This directly conflicts with the graph in Diabetes_mellitus#Pathophysiology and was called out in 2014. Checking the graph, it's from a slightly newer article. Nature Precedings : hdl:10101/npre.2008.1724.2 : Posted 2 Jun 2008 has a full-text, but pre-publication version available here: http://precedings.nature.com/documents/1724/version/2

Xaminmo (talk) 14:26, 4 July 2018 (UTC)

@Xaminmo, I am currently updating this page and am open to any suggestions you may have. I decided to remove the sentence you were discussing above as I do not think it has clinical utility even if it is factually true. The effect on blood sugar varies greatly depending on what exactly is meant by the term starch as well as the method preparation of the said starch, the overall composition of the meal (is it consumed in isolation or as part of other foods in a meal), etc. --Gklap (talk) 19:49, 19 November 2019 (UTC)

References

needs more global perspective

How do you flag the article as too america-focused? ADA this, ADA that. The US is not the only place people get diabetes, the ADA is not the only source of diabetes diet information, and diets vary from culture to culture. 67.164.18.219 (talk) 07:34, 10 October 2022 (UTC)