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Band member inclusion

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Band member of the Don Randi Trio should be included in this article, but has been removed by someone, why? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 23.241.123.228 (talk • contribs) 11:42, 18 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]

I am wondering why

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@Vmavanti: the chart that I was working on last night was removed with no discussion and not even a edit summary? Carptrash (talk) 17:45, 3 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]

You don't like sources? What about other discographies? Have you seen how we do them in the jazz project? Have you read other Wikipedia pages and seen how they are done? If nothing else, you could click on my name.
Vmavanti (talk) 17:50, 3 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Yeah @Vmavanti: I have sources for it all. I started it late last night and came back to work on it and found it gone. How about you put it back and let me get on with my work? Carptrash (talk) 18:19, 3 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]
How about you drop the attitude and add some citations? Or you might ask yourself whether it belongs there at all. I know you want it there. But is it necessary? There's all kinds of work to do on the jazz project if you are interesting in helping.
Vmavanti (talk) 22:25, 3 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]
I have not come here because Randi was a jazz musician. I guess if I wanted to get involved in the jazz project I could go to Miles Davis and add citations to the "Other awards" which has 4 citations for 15 awards or the filmography which has 1 reference for 10 entries, or perhaps do as you did and just remove them? Physician, heal thyself. I just want to be able to do my The Wrecking Crew work unmolested. And don't talk to me about "attitude" you came along and removed a night's work with no discussion, no "citation needed" not even an edit summary. Carptrash (talk) 23:38, 3 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]
I did write an edit summary but I accidentally hit submit too early. That's why you see several entries by me in the edit history. I don't claim to be perfect or try to be perfect. Here's my edit summary: Unsourced. I know you want to do your own thing unobstructed by limits or boundaries, but there are rules here. For the third time: According to rules of Wikipedia, all information must be sourced with citations. If your Miles Davis example is a way of saying "But other kids in the class do it, and they don't get punished", I don't know what to say except: No shit. Life is unfair and many people take a half-assed approach to editing and writing articles on Wikipedia. Many people treat it like a rest stop men's room. That shouldn't be news. Do you want to be like them? Why? I'm one person, and I can do only so much with the time I have. Any article that falls into the jazz project is subject to analysis by members of the jazz project. It's my opinion that adding chart data for this person is trivial and a waste of everyone's time. It may interest you, but that doesn't mean it interests everyone or that it ought to be in the article. You can't have a collaborative project if everyone always their does own thing and nothing more. I hope you had a chance to read the guidelines on my user page and I hope this clears up your confusion.
Vmavanti (talk) 15:58, 4 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]
No my bringing up Miles was not a case of "But other kids in the class do it, and they don't get punished", it was "If you want to go after unsourced postings why don't you do it somewhere important?" I am glad to see that you had planned an edit summary. As far as the information that I had charted, had started charting being "trivial", well that is your opinion, and as far as it being a waste of everyone's time. well . . ... stop wasting your time over it. Carptrash (talk) 16:56, 4 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]
"why don't you do it somewhere important?" I'm not prejudiced in that way. To me, all articles are important. I have had many people on Wikipedia take your approach, like it's just jazz and no one reads it anyway and so on. Well, I have standards. I work toward them no matter what I do. Even mowing the lawn. I'm not saying I aim for abstract, mythical goals of perfection and goodness. I roll up my sleeves and do the work wherever it needs to be done. I follow my work ethic. When you say the Miles Davis article is more important, I don't believe that. Every article on Wikipedia is important. Every edit of every editor ought to be done in a thoughtful, conscientious way. Not the idea of doing it. Not talking or wishing. Not leaving a template for the groundlings to do it. Actually doing it. Obviously Davis made more of an impact in jazz. But that doesn't make him a superior human being, and it doesn't mean I'm going to treat his article as more important. As an editor and writer I don't make those kinds of judgments. I apply what I hope are proper standards to every article. I'm not an elitist or snob. Every addition to an article ought to be justified by the person who enters it. That justification ought to be more than "Because I want it" or "Because it's my personal preference" or "Because I want to have a good time in some neutral utopia where there are no rules or boundaries". If I can stop more unsourced crap from being added to yet another article, then I'm going to do it. Too many people have treated the jazz project like a dumpster that strangers will maybe clean up someday if they get around to it. I've been trying to put an end to that habit.
Vmavanti (talk) 17:35, 4 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Okay, let’s be clear. I didn’t come here to dump on a jazz article. I am a jazz fan. I did a rough count, I have perhaps 100 jazz CDs, more depending on what big band stuff counts as jazz, what Ella Fitzgerald counts, how about Fats Waller, Sinatra, Peggy Lee, Les Paul, Nat King Cole, etc. It is an important form of music but it is sometimes difficult for me to know what counts as jazz, I have a couple of Larry Coryel CDs that sound like supermarket music . Anyway I came here because Randi is a member of The Wrecking Crew, a bunch I have been tracking since about 1970. They of course were not called that then. One of the ways that I feel the importance of these musicians can be measured is by how much popular music they played on and that can be demonstrated by showing how much of it there was and how it charted. Thus the use of a chart. I understand the importance of referencing edits, I am not a rookie here, but what got me started the other night was that I had just finished reading Randi’s autobiography and it included a lot discographical information. I am having to look up the chart stuff, I have books for that, as well as books for the R&B charts and for the British charts, if I decide to include them. I prefer to build things like this on wikipredia, but that can take a while so I will build what I am proposing somewhere else and plop the whole thing up when it is done. I have a feeling that we are in fact on the same team so perhaps getting past this while still speaking to each other would be a good idea. Carptrash (talk) 04:54, 5 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]
I apologize for my defensiveness. Many people on Wikipedia, and the internet, don't know what they're talking about. You do. I'm encouraged that you'll do the right thing. I don't associate the Wrecking Crew with jazz, and I don’t know anything about Don Randi. You made good points about the use of charts in that context. Most people who work on jazz articles are British. With one or two exceptions, they don’t know what they are talking about, but they refuse to budge one inch. Sorry, millimeter. According to Wikipedia the following are jazz musicians: Amy Winehouse, Bing Crosby, Ray Charles, Chaka Khan, Queen Latifah, Rod Stewart, Frank Zappa, Linda Ronstadt, Sade, Steely Dan, David Bowie, Cream, Soft Machine and anyone connected with the Canterbury Scene, anyone from Africa, and anyone on American Idol or related shows who has sung something from the Great American Songboook. One big problem is jazz became "elevated" and highfalutin' like classical. Like religion. Like it signifies superiority. An art. Everything's an art today. Someone says "artist" and I'm supposed to roll over with all four paws in the air. You can't just be a musician and enjoy yourself, you have to be "a musical artist" trying to change the world. Rappers are called artists. Come on. It's all very European. Creating ranks and classes to determine who is superior. Who cares? To me an artist is someone with a paint brush. I really don't care what music people listen to.
Vmavanti (talk) 14:02, 5 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]
As with the Funk Brothers from Detroit, a lot of the Wrecking Crew musicians considered themselves to be jazz musicians who only played pop music because it payed so much better. The jazz they produced is pretty obscure these days, the pop is still everywhere. Carptrash (talk) 16:17, 5 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]
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