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Lord or Lady Advocate?

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Now that Elish Angiolini has been officially nominated to replace Lord Boyd as Scotland's first female chief prosecutor, we can speculate on whether – if her nomination is successful – she would become the Lord Advocate or the Lady Advocate. If the former, and she (like her predecessor) is given a peerage would she then become Lady Angiolini, Lord Advocate. Or would she have to remain Lord Angiolini, Lord Advocate?Phase4 13:51, 5 October 2006 (UTC)[reply]

No speculation is required, as she won't be the first woman to hold a Lord XXX position. When Margaret Jay, Baroness Jay of Paddington was Lord Privy Seal she was called "The Lord Privy Seal (Baroness Jay of Paddington)" (Hansard). So she'll be Lady Angiolini, the Lord Advocate. Middenface 14:30, 5 October 2006 (UTC)[reply]

For the time being, she will simply be Elish Angiolini, the Lord Advocate - Colin Boyd was in the job for 6 years before being created a life peer.--George Burgess 16:07, 7 October 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Privy Council

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Just a quick note about the correct title for Elish, it's Rt.Hon Elish Angiolini and not Elish Angiolini PC. - Unless somehas has as title created for them (as in a peerage) or already have a title, such as an existing peer or member of a foreign monarchy, they don't carry the letters PC after their name, instead it permits them to be called The Rt.Hon Elish Angiolini. Colin Boyd, in his time as Lord Advocate was titled The Rt. Hon Colin Boyd QC. Kind Regards - Heligoland | Talk | Contribs 10:58, 8 November 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Edit request from Smeckma, 25 April 2010

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Elish Angiolini is alleged to have reacted against public calls for a full police investigation on Hollie Greig, who allegedly, had been sexually abused by an Aberdeen paedophile ring involving police officers and other senior officials. Mrs. Angiolini’s office decided in December 2009 that they would not pursue the case due to "insufficient evidence." Corroborating evidence by private investigators and researchers indicates that other than Hollie, not one of the twenty-four named abusers and victims has even been questioned by Grampian Police.

Smeckma (talk) 19:24, 25 April 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Not done: please provide reliable sources that support the change you want to be made. Spitfire19 (Talk) 20:13, 25 April 2010 (UTC)[reply]
The Palestine Telegraph [1] — Preceding unsigned comment added by Betty Noire (talk • contribs) 12:51, 10 August 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Small correction

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In the section mentioning Angiolini as principal of St. Hugh's College, it should say "announced", not "announce". More importantly, the fact that she is principal of the college could be put at the top of the page. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.6.30.236 (talk) 02:04, 30 September 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Done! BertyRussell (talk) 20:04, 17 March 2013 (UTC)[reply]
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Requested move 9 September 2023

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The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

The result of the move request was: not moved. Fails WP:NCPEER, no evidence was shown that the the person is far better recognised with the title than without. (closed by non-admin page mover) – MaterialWorks 18:02, 18 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Elish Angiolini → Lady Elish Angiolini – She is entitled to the use the prefix lady since being appointed to the Order of the Thistle and government and media websites alike have recently adopted this style when referring to her. Killuminator (talk) 11:06, 9 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Comment - Though I know from personal readings that the nom is correct in that government sources and some media use "Lady Elish Angiolini", most sources cited here still use "Elish Angiolini", even after she was appointed to the Order of the Thistle. It is also my understanding that we generally don't prefix titles with "Sir", "Dame", "Lord" or "Lady" unless it is overwhelmingly common, or more often used for WP:NATURAL disambiguation. Perhaps this idea could be more applicable to Mary Peters (athlete) as she is known as Lady Mary Peters. I certainly don't oppose this idea, but I can't say I support it either. estar8806 (talk) ★ 02:38, 10 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]
I've just gone ahead and opened that discussion myself at Talk:Mary Peters (athlete)#Requested move 10 September 2023. estar8806 (talk) ★ 02:42, 10 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]
You could have done the same with Mary Fagan as that one has a hatnote for disambiguation. Wikipedia:Naming conventions (royalty and nobility)#British nobility states that courtesy titles should be included in the article title if the person is far better recognised with the title than without. The American murder victim was obviously not someone who was titled as a lady. Killuminator (talk) 03:50, 10 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Support per nominator. The Order of the Thistle is the highest order in Scotland. Lady Elish is the only non-royal woman appointed to the Order: the other women members are HM The Queen and HRH The Princess Royal. Per https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:NCPEER #5 Lady is a courtesy title and should be included as Lady Elish is better recognised with the title. Oxonwiki (talk) 18:10, 11 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

'Cross-border issues'

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@Bram880: I see you have added the text: As Lord Advocate, Angiolini worked on cross-border issues alongside her counterpart Keir Starmer while he was Director of Public Prosecutions for England and Wales. to the lead of this article. Firstly, I don’t know what this means – please can you clarify. Secondly, I don’t see how this text is supported by the source you added. Thirdly, the lead should follow the body, and I can’t find anything in the body of the article corresponding to this. Sweet6970 (talk) 18:04, 20 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Apologies - missed this notification when it was first published. In the UK, Scotland and England are separate jurisdictions with their own legal system. The chief prosecutor in Scotland is the Lord Advocate and in England it is the Director of Public Prosecutions. When Elish Angiolini held the office of Lord Advocate in Scotland, Keir Starmer was Director of Public Prosecutions in England and so they worked together on issues which were cross-border (i.e. affected both Scotland and England). I have added an additional citation as below:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/scotland/8271869.stm Bram880 (talk) 13:35, 28 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

In the absence of any response, I have deleted this material. Sweet6970 (talk) 12:08, 28 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

@Bram880: Thank you for your response. However, you have not dealt with any of my points.
1) I am aware that Scotland is a jurisdiction which is separate from England & Wales. However, your text does not say what the ‘cross-border’ issues are.
2) The source you have provided does not support your text – it does not say that Angiolini & Starmer worked together on cross-border issues (whatever they are).
3) The lead should follow the body. There is nothing in the body about cross-border issues. The lead should be a summary of the most significant points of the article. So if there is anything to say about cross-border issues, it should be in the body, and not the lead. Sweet6970 (talk) 14:21, 28 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
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