Talk:Peru First

Requested move 13 February 2023

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

The result of the move request was: moved. (non-admin closure) ModernDayTrilobite (talk • contribs) 17:37, 20 February 2023 (UTC)

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First Peru → Peru First – Per my research, "Perú Primero" in English is translated as "Peru First", while "First Peru", the current page title as promoted by LordSidiousOfPeru, is translated as "Primer Perú". That user disputes this, however. If possible, I would like to start a discussion on this instead of moving the page back and forth over a disagreement, as it appears that there is no official English translation provided by the party to indicate the word order. I have also been unable as of yet to find any English media coverage of the party to point in one direction or the other. Another possible option would be to leave the title untranslated until sufficient media coverage in English has been established. HapHaxion _{(talk / contribs)} 20:37, 13 February 2023 (UTC)

• Support. The current article title makes no grammatical sense (nor political sense). "Peru Primero" is definitely "Peru First". "First Peru" would be "Primer Peru". Walrasiad (talk) 23:25, 13 February 2023 (UTC)

• Support for grammatical purposes. The English Wikipedia article for "Colombia Primero" is titled "Colombia First" not "First Colombia". — N Panama 84534 00:07, 14 February 2023 (UTC)

  On the contrary. The article Colombia First is the translation to Primero Colombia, not Colombia Primero, which in this case supports my argument. LordSidiousOfPeru (talk) 19:53, 14 February 2023 (UTC)

  In the case of the Peruvian party, it is not titled Primero Perú, but Perú Primero. If the party was Primero Perú, it would then make sense to call it Peru First, which is not the case. LordSidiousOfPeru (talk) 19:56, 14 February 2023 (UTC)

  Ok, but the Spanish Wikipedia articles for New Zealand First and FijiFirst are titled "Nueva Zelanda Primero" and "Fiyi Primero". — N Panama 84534 21:08, 14 February 2023 (UTC)

LordSidious, you're translating it wrong. The translation of "Perú Primero" is "Peru First", not "First Peru". Unless there are multiple Perus and you are counting Perus (First Peru, Second Peru, Third Peru, etc.), it is not a phrase that makes any grammatical sense. Walrasiad (talk) 22:18, 14 February 2023 (UTC)

• Move to Perú Primero. Not commonly seen in translation. -- Necrothesp (talk) 14:06, 15 February 2023 (UTC)

For reasons a bit unclear to me, practically all foreign parties are translated into English on Wikipedia, regardless of whether they are ever even mentioned outside the country, or even less found in translation. It would be inconsistent to make this an exception. The Wikipedia policy (or norm) seems to be that unless "Peru Primero" is consistently and overwhelmingly referred to by the untranslated foreign term in English RS (as e.g. "Kuomintang" is), then the default is to always translate the party's name into English on Wikipedia, no matter how obscure, nor if it has never been translated elsewhere. Walrasiad (talk) 06:43, 17 February 2023 (UTC)

Actually, this is not true. Many are in their original language, especially those that do not have names that are variants on the National Blah Party norm. It also goes against WP:UE. -- Necrothesp (talk) 15:38, 17 February 2023 (UTC)

In my experience, those are relatively few on Wikipedia. And "Blah First" is a common slogan and variant in English. The List of political parties in Peru has them all translated (except Podemos - I am guessing because its well-known counterpart in Spain is consistently printed in the English press that way, so "Podemos" parties in Latin America seem to slip by.) Walrasiad (talk) 17:05, 18 February 2023 (UTC)

• Support. I agree with Walrasiad, First Peru is the translation of a party named "Primer Perú" Lucjim (talk) 19:23, 19 February 2023 (UTC)

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.