Talk:Juraj Imoćanin

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This article is written in British English, which has its own spelling conventions (colour, travelled, centre, defence, artefact, analyse) and some terms that are used in it may be different or absent from other varieties of English. According to the relevant style guide, this should not be changed without broad consensus.

Naming convention

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

The result of the move request was: moved to Juraj Imoćanin. The discussion indicated that, since the article subject has not received significant discussion in English-language sources, WP:UE#No established usage in English-language sources advises us to follow the conventions of the language in which this entity is most often talked about. In this case, participants observed that sources are predominantly in Croatian and Latin, and expressed a preference for the Croatian name over the Latin one. (closed by non-admin page mover) ModernDayTrilobite (talk • contribs) 18:16, 8 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]

George of Imotski → ? – Since the English-language literature is lacking, and the literature, in general, is lacking, what article title should I use for a non-English person? Governor Sheng (talk) 21:40, 17 May 2023 (UTC) — Relisting. CLYDE ^{TALK TO ME}/_{STUFF DONE} (please mention me on reply) 00:25, 25 May 2023 (UTC) — Relisting. CLYDE ^{TALK TO ME}/_{STUFF DONE} (please mention me on reply) 04:01, 1 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]

George of Imotski is referred to in the literature, which is mostly in the Croatian language as "Juraj Imoćanin" (literally meaning Juraj from Imotski), and in the Latin-language literature, he is referred to simply as "Georgius". The literature on this bishop is very lacking, both in Croatian and Latin, while in English it is practically non-existent. The same situation is with Jerome of Trogir (who is referred to as "Jeronim Trogiranin" in Croatian, and in Latin as "Hieronymus de Tragurio"), Nicholas of Zadar (who is referred to as "Nikola Zadranin" in Croatian, and in Latin as "Nicolaus de Iadera") te Vid of Hvar (who is referred to as "Vid Hvaranin" in Croatian, and in Latin as "Vitus de Ruschis".

Per WP:COMMONNAME, Wikipedia generally prefers the name that is most commonly used (as determined by its prevalence in a significant majority of independent, reliable English-language sources. The issue is, there are no English-language sources, only Croatian-language or Latin-language sources.

Per WP:UE, the choice between anglicised and local spellings should follow English-language usage. Here, the issue is the same as explained above, due to the lack of English-language sources.

The same rule continues: "If there are too few reliable English-language sources to constitute an established usage, follow the conventions of the language appropriate to the subject." Does this mean the articles should be renamed to "Juraj Imoćanin", "Jeronim Trogiranin", "Nikola Zadranin" and "Vid Hvaranin". If so, should I use Croatian or Latin conventions?

The issue is complicated further, because, the rule continues: "For lesser known geographical objects or structures with few reliable English sources, follow the translation convention". Does this apply to people as well?

Then, this advice is given to help resolve the issue: "For ideas on how to deal with situations where there are several competing foreign terms, see "Multiple local names" and "Use modern names" in the geographical naming guideline. Such discussions can benefit from outside opinions so as to avoid a struggle over which language to follow." This is hardly applicable to this situation and I'm in real need of an outside opinion.

The rule then adds this: "In deciding whether and how to translate a foreign name into English, follow English-language usage. If there is no established English-language treatment for a name, translate it if this can be done without loss of accuracy and with greater understanding for the English-speaking reader." If this is the path I should take, have the translations been done correctly?

The opinions of other editors will help me with naming other similar existing articles I recently created (and mentioned here). Thank you all in advance. Governor Sheng (talk) 21:40, 17 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]

This is not how you format an RfC. ~ HAL333 22:33, 17 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]
And more to the point, RfC is not for article name discussions. That's the WP:RM process not WP:RFC. I've reformatted this into an RM discussion so it is listed in the right place. Anyway, I don't have yet a certain opinion on the question, as it's an unusual sort of case. Ultimately, I think that as long as the Croatian- and Latin-language names redirect here (or in the case of just "Georgius" that a disambiguation-page entry exists), and the reader ends up at the right article, and the alternative names appear in the lead section, that it really doesn't matter much. — SMcCandlish ☏ ¢ 😼 23:42, 17 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Why is his name translated at all? per Wikipedia:Naming_conventions_(use_English)#No_established_usage_in_English-language_sources it should be Juraj Imoćanin—blindlynx 00:42, 18 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]
At very least, that name should already redirect here. — SMcCandlish ☏ ¢ 😼 10:05, 1 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.