Talk:Great Britain at the Olympics/Archive 1

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Archive 1 Archive 2

Incomplete

A lot of the sports stop at 1908, the extra years need to be added for anyone who has time... Paulbrock 23:40, 2 May 2007 (UTC)

Name

I still don't understand why the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland competes in the Olympics under the name of Great Britain. The Kingdom of Great Britain has not existed since 1801, so even when the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Ireland first competed in the Olympics the name was incorrect. It would be accurate for UK athletes to compete as United Kingdom or UK. This is just as easy to abbreviate as GB and would not perpetuate the error of thinking that Northern Ireland is part of Great Britain. Don't athletes from Northern Ireland (who would tend to be Unionists?) object to being told that their country doesn't exist, or is part of the island next door?--Oxonian2006 (talk) 14:21, 23 August 2008 (UTC)

I think it's because historically there wasn't consistency on which bit of "United Kingdom of Great Britain and (Northern) Ireland" got used for the short form. Note that "Great Britain" is also used for things like the ISO 3166-1 alpha-2 code GB, though the domain is .uk due to the government getting a special exception to the standard rule. Timrollpickering (talk) 11:57, 29 August 2008 (UTC)
Uh, we don't compete under the name 'Great Britain'. The official name is 'Great Britain and Northern Ireland', as it has been since 1928. In 1924 and before, it was 'Great Britain and Ireland'. Bastin 15:42, 29 August 2008 (UTC)
The UK does compete under GB. As timroll says its likely down to there been no consistancy over names, 'Great Britain' meant the same as Britain (as in the short form for the country, not the island) only cooler sounding in the past.--130.243.155.59 (talk) 18:15, 30 August 2008 (UTC)


NI athletes and ROI team

It's stupid and misleading to say that "athletes from Northern Ireland can elect to represent Ireland at the Olympics instead of the Great Britain team", because it gives the impression that the Ireland team is an all-Ireland team. Important to be clear that it is an ROI team and hence say "can elect to represent the Republic of Ireland team". Mooretwin (talk) 22:52, 1 September 2008 (UTC)

My opinion on this is that your point of view is just that. Its a POV and shouln't be included in an article as its not 100% correct. Ireland is the name of the team and the country so that should not be ignored for a hypothetical debate. Great Britain is the name of the team for the UK, yet you don't see that name being changed. Facts are facts and they should be refelcted correctly on an encyclopedia.213.202.189.10 (talk) 23:02, 1 September 2008 (UTC)
It's not a POV. It is factually correct that the team only represents the Republic. The name - like that of the GB team - is a misnomer and hence the need for clarity. You will see from the opening sentence of this article, contrary to what you imply, that GB team is described as representing the UK. Mooretwin (talk) 23:07, 1 September 2008 (UTC)
Its POV to try and change the name of the country and the team for you personal views. I don't see any confusion in the team name in the real world. The olympics is a competition for the sovereign states of the world not islands. If you can verify that there is confusion that the Ireland team represents the whole island and that the GB only competes for GB then thats fine. (I never said team GB didn't represent the UK as per your above post). Otherwise the official name should be used as this is the real world, we don't have the right to change it for our POV.213.202.189.10 (talk) 23:13, 1 September 2008 (UTC)
I'm trying to change neither the name of the country nor the team: merely to clarify that the team known as "Ireland" is actually the ROI team. (An earlier edit used the name "Ireland", but clarified that it only represented the Republic - this, however, was edited as being too clumsy.) There is plenty of confusion in the real world - indeed, some editors on Wikipedia have tried to argue that it is an all-Ireland team. What's the problem with saying Republic of Ireland - it makes the status of the team clear. Mooretwin (talk) 23:18, 1 September 2008 (UTC)
It misleadingly suggests the name of the team and the country is ROI. Everytime I watched the Olympics, it was Ireland who were announced as competing. To say that can represent the ROI is wrong as it is Ireland they can choose to represent. Why are you trying to clarify it on the GB Olympics page? It seems like a POV, its clarified who it represents on the page when you click the link.213.202.189.10 (talk) 23:25, 1 September 2008 (UTC)
It is the name "Ireland" that is misleading, as it gives the impression of being a team that represents Ireland, rather than merely the Republic. As you say, the team in the media is referred to as "Ireland", and so many people will believe the team represents the whole island. Hence it is important to clarify in this article. The reason it needs to be clarified on this page is because we cannot assume that readers will click the link to the "Ireland at the Olympics" page. Mooretwin (talk) 23:34, 1 September 2008 (UTC)
If YOU think the name is misleading then that is your issue. The name is substanstiated in real life by all bodies and no issue has ever been raised over the name other here on Wikipedia. All your claims have no basis and no verification and is all your personal POV unfortunately.213.202.189.10 (talk) 23:37, 1 September 2008 (UTC)
It's simply not possible for you to know whether Wikipedia is only place the issue has ever been raised. There is no POV involved: it is incontrovertible and verifiable fact that the "Ireland" team does not represent all of Ireland, but merely the Republic. Hence the need to disambiguate in an article referring to Northern Ireland (that part of Ireland not represented by the team known as Ireland!). I can't see what the problem is in providing clarity to readers. Mooretwin (talk) 23:45, 1 September 2008 (UTC)
For the last time it is misleading! That is not the name. The Ireland olympic team represent the state called Ireland! It is quite simple. You are trying to change the name. If you can WP:VERIFY what you are saying about the confusion then fine. I know I can verify that the team that is called Ireland represents the state called Ireland. Why is this so called confusion even an issue for the GB page? What has it got to do with it? You don't see the GB team and UK in brackets on the Ireland page do you? The issue that it doesn't represent the whole island at the olympics is raised on the Ireland page. Specifics are left for the specific page. Changing the name is not right. It is without reason is not justifiable.213.202.189.10 (talk) 23:52, 1 September 2008 (UTC)
How can it be misleading to clarify that the team represents the Republic?!! As for why it's confusing ... well, because the state called "Ireland" doesn't include all of Ireland: only part of it! And I've edited the "Ireland at the Olympics" page to clarify that the GB team actually represents the UK. Mooretwin (talk) 07:06, 2 September 2008 (UTC)
The name is accepted fact. Stop trying to change it! Same applies to the GB team. It is called team GB. The name is expalined on its own article page. Your POV editing has no real life backing to it.IP213.202.189.10 (talk) 09:06, 2 September 2008 (UTC)
No-one's disputing what the name is! The problem is that the name is a misnomer and doesn't make clear that the state/team relates only to part of Ireland. In respect of the UK, the opposite is true - the team relates to all of the UK, yet the name relates only to part of it. Hence clarificiation is needed. The POV editing appears to be on your part - seeking to censor the fact that the "Ireland" Olympic team is not actually an all-Ireland team. I'm not clear on your motiviations for this. Mooretwin (talk) 11:17, 2 September 2008 (UTC)
Interesting topic. The Olympics initially did mix me up - I once thought it was an Island of Ireland team. GoodDay (talk) 20:12, 2 September 2008 (UTC)
But would you agree GoodDay that the clarification of what it is, is for the actual article and not for everyplace that the link appears? What Mooretwin is suggesting doesn't occur in real life in the media or the internet, so while I agree its a valid point to make (on its respective page), changing the team name is not the thing to do. Agree/Disagree?IP213.202.189.10 (talk) 20:21, 2 September 2008 (UTC)
I wouldn't change the 'team' name (just like I wouldn't change Team GB's nam to Team UK). But, a clarification would certainly help, it wouldn't hurt. GoodDay (talk) 20:52, 2 September 2008 (UTC)
How would you suggest we do it then?IP213.202.189.10 (talk) 21:10, 2 September 2008 (UTC)
I haven't given it that much thought. GoodDay (talk) 21:14, 2 September 2008 (UTC)
Ok. My suggestion to clarify that its not an all-island team is this:
Under the terms of a long-standing settlement between the British Olympic Association and the Olympic Council of Ireland, athletes from Northern Ireland can elect to represent Ireland at the Olympics instead of representing the United Kingdom.
By removing team GB and inserting UK, we take team names out of it and use country names. That way it is clear that NI is not excluded and that Ireland doesn't represent the whole island. Any comments?IP213.202.189.10 (talk) 21:53, 2 September 2008 (UTC)
'Republic of Ireland' will have to some how be inserted (IMO); but it won't be easy. GoodDay (talk) 22:07, 2 September 2008 (UTC)
IMO I would disagree, having watched the Olympics on both the BBC and RTÉ I can safely say the term 'ROI' was not used. Wikipedia seems to be fanscinated with the term ROI and while its use is fine in some articles using it on a sporting page like this seems a bit POV (all in IMO of course).IP213.202.189.10 (talk) 22:37, 2 September 2008 (UTC)
I just thought less familiar readers would be confused, that's all. GoodDay (talk) 22:43, 2 September 2008 (UTC)

Suggested wording

Under the terms of a long-standing settlement between the British Olympic Association and the Olympic Council of Ireland, athletes from Northern Ireland can elect to represent Ireland at the Olympics, despite it being a different country. Athletes in sports organised on an all-Ireland basis such as boxing tend to represent the Republic of Ireland whereas those in sports organised on an UK basis such as athletics tend to represent Great Britain.[citation needed]

I think that clears everything up while using ROI and highlighting the fact its not all-Ireland, aswell as keeping the accuracy of the team names. Any comments?ThatsGrand (talk) 15:45, 3 September 2008 (UTC)

Cool. GoodDay (talk) 20:57, 3 September 2008 (UTC)
That's great. I suppose we better wait for Mooretwin to be unbanned before declaring this as consensus though.ThatsGrand (talk) 21:16, 3 September 2008 (UTC)
We shall see. GoodDay (talk) 21:24, 3 September 2008 (UTC)
My first reaction is amusement. I would suspect that those who get prickly at the "offensive" name "Republic of Ireland", might equally be "offended" at the horrific suggestion that the Republic is a different country to Northern Ireland! Nonetheless, the wording is preferable to the current wording, but I still don't see why we can't state expressly that the "Ireland" Olympics team represents the Republic. Mooretwin (talk) 12:49, 4 September 2008 (UTC)
Glad you find it ok. Offense has nothing to do with any of this, its being accurate and the above is that. I'll contact the admin to unblock the page now.ThatsGrand (talk) 12:51, 4 September 2008 (UTC)
i have had the page unblocked and made the change discussed above. Basement12 (T.C) 01:37, 10 September 2008 (UTC)

I hate to use the "i dont like it" line, but the wording regarding the Ireland option just makes me cringe- "despite it being a different country" :/ doesn't really reflect the whole political context which precedes that decision does it, Belfast agreement and self determination and all that. It would probably sound better to mention the whole dual citizenship thing, where people from the North are legally entitled to Irish citizenship. --193.61.159.26 (talk) 10:29, 28 April 2009 (UTC)

I think it's definitely a change for the better! Sillyfolkboy (talk) (edits) 15:30, 28 April 2009 (UTC)

Assessment comment

The comment(s) below were originally left at Talk:Great Britain at the Olympics/Comments, and are posted here for posterity. Following several discussions in past years, these subpages are now deprecated. The comments may be irrelevant or outdated; if so, please feel free to remove this section.

To whom it may concern:

Hello.

According to http://www.olympic.org/uk/games/past/index_uk.asp?OLGT=1&OLGY=1908, at the IV Olympic Games (London 1908), Great Britain got 145 medals: 56 (gold), 51 (silver), and 38 (bronze). The "All-time Olympic Games medal table" and the "Great Britain at the Olympics" wikipedia pages need to be checked.

Best wishes.--Alpinu (talk) 22:10, 19 August 2008 (UTC)

Last edited at 23:22, 3 March 2010 (UTC). Substituted at 14:53, 1 May 2016 (UTC)