Talk:Jiangnan Automobile

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Not the only Jiangnan...

I think it was a bit premature to move this article to just "Jiangnan". My concern is that there seems to be at least three different Jiangnan companies (or at least romanised as such): the one covered by this article, Hubei Jiangnan (a truck conversion company) and Zhangjiagang Jiangnan (a bus and van manufacturer).

I propose to move this article to either the Hunan Jiangnan or Hunan Jiangnan Automobile title, and keep Jiangnan Automobile as a redirect until articles for the others are created. If there's no opposition in the next few days, I'll perform the move. Pinging Matthew hk. Urbanoc (talk) 22:34, 11 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Oppose. Also, please use normal WP:RM process. Jiangnan is a routine Chinese term, it means south bank of the river and there are institutions like Jiangnan University and Jiangnan Shipyard. So you have to prove "Jiangnan Automobile " is the primary topic of "Jiangnan " and/or "Hunan Jiangnan" is more common as WP:Commonname than Jiangnan Automobile in English literature. Matthew hk (talk) 05:43, 12 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Also, it seem "Hunan Jiangnan Automobile " is the primary topic of "Jiangnan Automobile " (see CCTV news report). Zhangjiagang and Hubei seem non-notable. Matthew hk (talk) 05:51, 12 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Matthew hk, some points:

I know Jiangnan means that, but I also must point out that the three Jiangnan I mentioned include "Motor" (汽车) in its name. That was my point. If we consider companies that include the "Jiangnan" bit alone, they're probably hundreds, I know. That's why I said either "Hunan Jiangnan" or "Hunan Jiangnan Automobile". The OICA (an organisation grouping the majority of the car manufacturers) calls it both ways.

WP:RM is only for potentially controversial moves, which I didn't think this was. I don't appreciate your tone, if I'm honest. But I will do proceed with any move through that way, as it seems there is opposition.

You included an edit summary saying this company was probably dead and an "update" tag, so I assumed you did just a light research, as there's indirect evidence this company is still in operation.

I think the three Jiangnan Automobile (included the one with article) are barely notable (if they have any notability...), there are almost zero quality sources covering them. The only solid coverage related to the Hunan Jiangnan Automobile company is referred to its Suzuki Alto's ripoffs, as the TT (which at one point was the third cheapest car in existence) or the Z100, and for them it is mostly product descriptions, motor show unveilings and recall notices. Products don't give notability to a company per se. The one point that in my view give more credibility to Hunan Jiangnan over the others is the fact OICA considers it a standalone manufacturer. And OICA calls it either "Hunan Jiangnan" or "Hunan Jiangnan Automobile".

I don't think the fact CCTV calls it "江南汽车" can be counted as a primary topic proof, as they give context clarifying it was the Zotye's Jiangnan Automobile. And short names aren't always correct and/or consistent in Chinese media. For example, in many Chinese sources they give the short name "江铃汽车" to three differents companies (江铃汽车股份有限公司, official short name:江铃汽车; 江铃汽车集团有限公司, official short name:江铃集团; 江西江铃控股有限公司, official short name:江铃控股). Note that Jiangling Holdings doesn't even have "Motor" in its name. So Western and even some Chinese sources in English (as the South China Morning Post) follow suit, calling the three of them "Jiangling Motors". But if you read the news, you probably know Jaguar Land Rover used the short name 江铃汽车 after the British company won a case against 江西江铃控股有限公司 and that was taken by the media worldwide. 江铃汽车股份有限公司 issued an angry press release saying they own the "Jiangling Motors" trademark. After that, JLR fixed its press release, but only a few sources (Reuters, for example) fixed in turn its news articles. Most of the rest (including Chinese state-run media(!)) still keep the claim JLR won a case against Jiangling Motors.

So, that's it, I hope that addresses your sugestion I didnt make my homework before proposing a move. Regards. --Urbanoc (talk) 11:51, 12 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]

江铃汽车集团, 江铃控股, are the parent companies of 江铃汽车股份 (see page 33 of annual report), so there is not exist of disambiguation problem . Geely article in En-wiki covers the privately own parent company as well as the listed subsidiary Geely Automobile. It may need disambiguation if people wrote two WP:GNG passing articles (just like box in box in box in Dongfeng Motor Corporation). But not that case for 江铃汽车. For "Jiangnan Automobile ", other entries are non-notable. Matthew hk (talk) 08:02, 13 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Requested move 12 May 2019

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

The result of the move request was: Not moved — Martin (MSGJ · talk) 21:19, 20 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Jiangnan Automobile → Hunan Jiangnan Automobile – Either Hunan Jiangnan or Hunan Jiangnan Automobile are the most WP:COMMONAMEs in English-language reliable sources (as the the OICA or books). The sources that tend to use more just the "Jiangnan (or JiangNan) Automobile" name are less reliable ones (as China Auto Web or Le Blog Auto) that have little editorial oversight and tend to simply translate from Chinese sources. But even that kind of sources sitting on the grey area aren't consitent on that. A quick Google search proves that there's at least two other "Jiangnan Automobile" companies.

An editor said that the Jiangnan Automobile covered in this article (Hunan Jiangnan) is the primary topic for Jiangnan Automobile, and that may ba valid point.If you search 江南汽车 most of the results you would get are related to Hunan Jiangnan and not to the other two Jiangnan companies involved in the automotive industry (Hubei Jiangnan and Zhangjiagang Jiangnan). However, most of the coverage you would get is related to Hunan Jiangnan products. If you don't count that and just count articles related to the companies themselves, the coverage of high-quality sources is very low for the three of them. Urbanoc (talk) 13:28, 12 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Oppose Other Jiangnan Automobile are non-notable and did not have article in en and zh wiki. "Hunan Jiangnan Automobile" is the primary topic of "Jiangnan Automobile". (See CCTV news report on 江南汽车, some thesis) Matthew hk (talk) 08:04, 13 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose per Matthew hk; there is nothing in the encyclopedia to disambiguate this against, and therefore no reason to move to a less concise title. bd2412 T 15:52, 19 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page or in a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.