Talk:Jozef Raskin

Extensive edits and revisions

I've begun an extensive revision of this article and have more to add, including the citing of the references I've collected that I'm too tired to do right now, but will (hopefully) work more on tomorrow. Thanks. Picomtn (talk) 13:39, 16 March 2016 (UTC)

Hi @Checkingfax: I believe that by my extensive editing of this article it can no longer be considered a stub--if you agree, how does one remove the stub reference from it? I also believe it would be nice to include a photo of him, his grave and his statue as this person more than deserves this homage paid to him--if you agree, how can these non-copyrighted photos be included? I have also cross referenced this articles subject with those of the Dutch resistance and CICM Missionaries too. I still remain uncertain as to if this articles title should be changed from Father Raskin to his given name, and if so, which first name should be used, Joseph or Jozef? Thanks. Picomtn (talk) 12:43, 18 March 2016 (UTC)

References

Hi @Checkingfax: Going by the guidelines at Wikipedia:Stub#Removing stub status that say Be bold in removing stub tags that are clearly no longer applicable, I've removed the stub references from this article. Thanks. Picomtn (talk) 13:11, 18 March 2016 (UTC)

Hi Picomtn. Yes, you are permitted to use your judgment and remove stub tags. To that end you can also update the class= parameter on the article's talk page to reflect any promotion (list, start, b, c, ga, fa, etc.). Do an edit-source to get to the WikiProject template on the article talk page to see the parameters that need promotion. You can also add stub tags to stub articles that are lacking them; try to be specific on a stub category if you can, or simply use the generic stub tag. Articles can live in more than one stub category too, so you can add more than one stub tag to articles that require it. Cheers! {{u|Checkingfax}} {Talk} 04:35, 19 March 2016 (UTC)

Hi Picomtn. Contact Natalie.Desautels in Quebec. I believe she can assist you with finding images and licensing them. Also, she can help you contact places to get other helpful things released. Cheers! {{u|Checkingfax}} {Talk} 13:28, 21 March 2016 (UTC)

Hi @Checkingfax: Wow! Can you believe how far we've brought this article in just a month and a half! Amazing! Thanks. Picomtn (talk) 07:51, 2 May 2016 (UTC)

Article name change

Resolved

Hi @Checkingfax: In following the information provided in Wikipedia:Article titles#Treatment of alternative names and Wikipedia:Article titles#Foreign names and anglicization, the title of this article should be Joseph Raskin and not Father Raskin, or at the very least, Father Joseph Raskin. Can you assist me with Wikipedia:Page name#Changing the displayed title if you agree? Thanks. Picomtn (talk) 10:42, 19 March 2016 (UTC)

Hi Picomtn. Read this: Wikipedia:Article titles, percolate on it, and get back to me. Cheers! {{u|Checkingfax}} {Talk} 12:09, 19 March 2016 (UTC)

Hi @Checkingfax: Well, I’ve percolated quite a bit about this and I can’t find any substantive issue that would mandate changing this articles name due to this highly notable persons relative obscurity. Sometime in the future though, and should genuine hero’s like this come back into vogue, maybe a young scholar, or two, will have other thoughts. Thanks too for your cleaning up of this article. Picomtn (talk) 08:15, 21 March 2016 (UTC)

Some points arising

Hi, Picomtn, Checkingfax! As you may have seen, I've started reviewing this for DYK. Apart from the shortage of references which I've noted above, there are a couple of other things that I think need to be dealt with:

•  Resolved. It appears that some of the content was translated from nl.wp. If so, the source of the translation must be acknowledged on this page (otherwise it is plagiarism!). That's done by placing a {{translated page}} template near the top; I can help with that if necessary.
•  Resolved. I'm pretty sure this page should be moved to Jozef Raskin, as that is this guy's name. It seems that he was often known as "Pater Raskin" in Flemish (and that should be noted in the article), but I can't see any evidence that he was ever known as "Father Raskin" in English. WP:AT is clear on this: "Do not, however, use obscure or made-up names" – we can't make up a name for him that isn't used in the sources. This isn't a case like Mother Teresa, where she was always known by that name. Unless there's any objection, I'll move the page.

Resolved

Note: his name appears to have been Jozef Raskin, not Joseph Raskin as suggested above. Justlettersandnumbers (talk) 11:54, 21 March 2016 (UTC)

Hi Justlettersandnumbers. Thank you for taking a look. The en page was created as Father Raskin in China in May of 2007 at about 600b. The nl version was created in April 2007 at 3900b and dipped a tad by May 2007.

So, there was no copy of the nl to the en version in May of 2007. The en version pretty much started from scratch. We could put up those two diffs just as a precaution. I can put up the {{translated page}} template notice easily.

He was born as Jozef Raskin as indicated in the article, and bolded. I will add Pater Raskin too.

We are discussing a page move, so hold off on that. Cheers! {{u|Checkingfax}} {Talk} 12:20, 21 March 2016 (UTC)

Hi Justlettersandnumbers, I've discussed the name change with Checkingfax (see above) and, at least for me, and for historical accuracy, I personally believe the name should be Pater Jozef Raskin. And, though their may be similarities to NL/WP, at my first glance I don't see the exactness others might see. I think it would, also, be nice to have his picture on this article that can be found at reference 2. Thanks. Picomtn (talk) 12:29, 21 March 2016 (UTC)

That's a very poor image, Picomtn, and not free. I suggest that it would be difficult to construct a convincing non-free rationale for it as there is a free image available here. It might be preferable to use that, which could be uploaded to Commons, even though it is clearly much older. Justlettersandnumbers (talk) 16:09, 21 March 2016 (UTC)

Hi @Picomtn and Justlettersandnumbers:. Pater Jozef Raskin sounds perfect as Pater means Fr. in German. Cheers! {{u|Checkingfax}} {Talk} 12:35, 21 March 2016 (UTC)

UPDATE: Pater Raskin would comply with MoS better. Cheers! {{u|Checkingfax}} {Talk} 12:40, 21 March 2016 (UTC)

Which bit of the MoS would that be, Checkingfax? We don't usually use honorifics per MOS:HONORIFIC. Thus our articles on the various Archbishops of Canterbury don't seem to have "Archbishop" stuck in front of the person's name, and our page on someone like Pio of Pietrelcina (who is always, but always, known as "Padre Pio") does not have "padre" in the title. As mentioned above and as noted in the MoS, Mother Teresa is an exception. There is no reason to include "Pater" in the title of this article. Justlettersandnumbers (talk) 15:46, 21 March 2016 (UTC)

Hi Justlettersandnumbers (with cc to Picomtn). The part about page titles being as succinct as possible. Pater Raskin is more succinct than Pater Jozef Raskin. Cheers! {{u|Checkingfax}} {Talk} 16:30, 21 March 2016 (UTC)

Hi Checkingfax and Justlettersandnumbers, Father Jef de Vroey wrote the definitive book about Father Raskin (Pater Raskin in de beide wereldoorlogen/translated Father Raskin in both world wars) and his (actually their) service during both world wars and remains the best reference for the World I section of this article. I don't, however, know how to reference a book such as this here. Thanks. Picomtn (talk) 14:32, 22 March 2016 (UTC)

References

The German city of Papenburg has a street named in Father Raskin's honor if anyone thinks it should be noted in this article. Papenburg is, also, notable to Father Raskin as this was where his death sentence appeal was heard and denied prior to his beheading. Thanks. Picomtn (talk) 14:40, 22 March 2016 (UTC)

References

Hi, Picomtn. Write the content and then cite it using {{cite book}}. Click on the link to see the available cite parameters and what to fill them with. Cheers! {{u|Checkingfax}} {Talk} 00:02, 24 March 2016 (UTC)

Hi, Justlettersandnumbers (with cc to Picomtn). Can you please circle around to this DYK when you have the time? Cheers! {{u|Checkingfax}} {Talk} 05:08, 26 March 2016 (UTC)
Hi, Justlettersandnumbers. Picomtn who is the most recent significant researcher and contributor on this article is now back from Wikibreak so we can all now get back to this DYK whenever you are able. Ping me back. Cheers! {{u|Checkingfax}} {Talk} 16:55, 5 April 2016 (UTC)

Paper thickness

I spotted that he sent messages by pigeon on 3 mm paper. That would be quite thick cardboard. Could you check and correct: ordinary printer paper is only about 0.15 mm - so I suspect this should have been 0.03 mm. 81.132.106.10 (talk) 18:25, 1 May 2016 (UTC)

Picomtn. Can you please address this from your source? I believe you originally had it at 3m which would be about a yard thick. 3 micrometers would only be 0.00011811 inches. Cheers! {{u|Checkingfax}} {Talk} 08:02, 2 May 2016 (UTC)

Hi @Checkingfax: I'm so glad someone picked this up...and it was a simple fix mistake as I had just had to transpose the 3mm to the tube where it belonged instead of the paper, which I've already fixed. Thanks. Picomtn (talk) 08:29, 2 May 2016 (UTC)

Hi @Checkingfax: PS. In my reviewing my notes about this I ran across a WWII video I had saved about war pigeons and found to be very fascinating. Thanks. Picomtn (talk) 08:29, 2 May 2016 (UTC)

References