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Page protection

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I recommend this be page be locked for edits while the rumors and tabloid gossip fly over the latest nude tape incident. Also, I don't feel gossip from sites like Gawker needs to be included unless it's from a verified source and not just tabloid rumor. -- User:scottjduffy —Preceding unsigned comment added by Scottjduffy (talk • contribs) 13:40, 19 August 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Sourcing

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I really don't think a site like this qualifies as a reliable source, but this is the only source I could find that says she was removed from the TV show. I don't work much on celebrity articles -- my instinct is to include it with the barest fact (that she left the show), and leave it at that. -Pete (talk) 03:17, 24 August 2009 (UTC)[reply]

That sounds right. Leave out the word "booted" for instance (except in the reference, of course). - Peregrine Fisher (talk) (contribs) 03:24, 24 August 2009 (UTC)[reply]

I just watched the first episode and she was most definitely booted for being abusive and punching a camera man. In a later episode, Bob the counselor asks the group if she can come back and every member of the house rejects that idea, except Tom Sizemore. If I knew how to cite something I've watched, I would...174.31.26.71 (talk)

I already put that in the article, with the episode in question as the citation. Nightscream (talk) 23:28, 29 April 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Moved from article

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Stuff from the article that we may want later. - Peregrine Fisher (talk) (contribs) 04:11, 24 August 2009 (UTC)[reply]

She was featured on E! "Beauty Queens Gone Wrong" as number 13 in the 2 hour count down of Pageant Scandals.

Since relinquishing her title, Peniche appeared on one of the highest rated episodes of The Howard Stern Show and The Playhouse, a morning talk show hosted by an ex-boyfriend from her hometown. She has appeared in Species III, Pauly Shore's "Minding the Store" as Pauly's girlfriend, Comedy Central's "Mind of Mencia", and was the star in the film "Small Change". As a model she has worked overseas in print and television commercials with Samsung, LG, and Perry Ellis. She is one of the models of Benchwarmer Trading Cards. She has a role in the New Line film Grilled starring Ray Romano, Kevin James, and Burt Reynolds. The movie went direct to DVD in 2006.

In 2008, Peniche hosted several TV shows, including "LND TV". She also released a line of clothing called "Strung Out", showing her spring collection at Portland Fashion week.

I think some of this stuff could be moved back citing http://www.imdb.com/name/nm1750531/ -Pete (talk) 04:56, 24 August 2009 (UTC)[reply]
I do lots of pop culture articles, and using IMDB is controversial. We can cite the primary sources, if we have enough info to fill out the template. This says what we'd like to say about Howard Stern, but I don't think it meats RS either. - Peregrine Fisher (talk) (contribs) 05:01, 24 August 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Hmm, well I always thought IMDB was ok for establishing that somebody was in a certain film. But I bow to your greater pop culture experience, I'm not too familiar with how IMDB works. -Pete (talk) 06:21, 24 August 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Lead section

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Peregrine, you've made excellent improvements, but I'm not so sure about listing all the scandals in the lead. The goal should be to write a complete biography of the woman, and the fact that her scandalous moments are all reported instantly I believe makes them appear more notable than they are. Just because something has a lot of sources over a 3 day period does not mean it's a particularly notably event, justifying placement in the lead paragraph.

My inclination would be to keep the lead section pretty short for now, and focus on rounding out the rest of the article. What do you think? -Pete (talk) 04:17, 24 August 2009 (UTC)[reply]

To be specific, I think the Playboy pictorial and resulting stripping of the title should be in the lead, the rest should not. Perhaps a general sentence stating that she has been involved in several controversial issues and was expected to appear on the TV show. -Pete (talk) 04:19, 24 August 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Sounds good. I don't have strong feelings on what the lead should say, I just kinda looked at the article and (very quickly) summarized what I saw. - Peregrine Fisher (talk) (contribs) 04:21, 24 August 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Cool. I did a quick rewrite, that I think is better balanced. Feel free to tweak. -Pete (talk) 06:22, 24 August 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Fairview vs. Gresham

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I don't have the ref, but what's the deal? - Peregrine Fisher (talk) (contribs) 04:26, 24 August 2009 (UTC)[reply]

She's from Fairview -- at least, that's where she lived after she was about 16. I figured she was assumed by the national media to be from Gresham because that's where her (private) high school was located. (if there are reliable sources saying she's from Gresham, maybe we should reconsider?) It sounds like her mom moved around a bit while she was growing up, so maybe she did live in Gresham as a child. (I emailed you a news story, did you get that?) -Pete (talk) 04:55, 24 August 2009 (UTC)[reply]
The Gresham Outlook reference says she's from Gresham (little did they know, they might have said Fairview otherwise). I must admit I'm clear on exactly what part of Portland or Gresham or whatever Fairview is. Got the email. Thanks. - Peregrine Fisher (talk) (contribs) 05:05, 24 August 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Ah. Well, between the two, I'd say the Oregonian is the "more" reliable source. The Outlook might just be trying to claim her for their own, after all! Fairview is a separate city, though it's a tiny one. -Pete (talk) 06:23, 24 August 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Lead

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But, the reason most reliable sources have commented on her is the video, so I'm thinking we should mention it in some way in the lead. Something tasteful. Maybe "News sources have commented on a home video with her and married couple and actors Eric Dane and Rebecca Gayheart." or something. It doesn't define her, but it is big with reliable sources and their coverage. - Peregrine Fisher (talk) (contribs) 05:44, 24 August 2009 (UTC)[reply]

I put it in there, of course feel free to tweak it. I'm not inclined to think of most of these as reliable sources, though of course it would take a lot of research for me to back up my position. But simply judging on how many of them incorrectly report that she was stripped of the Miss Teen USA title (which she never held)...they're basically just reprinting gossip, not doing in-depth reporting or making commentary on what the most significant aspects of her life are. I don't think number of stories, by itself, tells us much about how to weight facts in a biography. -Pete (talk) 06:26, 24 August 2009 (UTC)[reply]
A related point is that she's the least famous person in the video. Most of the stories' headlines mention Dane, not Peniche. I guess my sense is that she is most famous as a beauty queen who won a local and a national title, and had one of them stripped for her Playboy appearance. (Though it's really hard to find any coverage of that -- I think she must not have been the first, as it does not seem to have hit the mainstream press.) If her career continues to advance, it should get easier to determine (from future coverage) how much of an emphasis the video deserves in this article. -Pete (talk) 06:31, 24 August 2009 (UTC)[reply]
I think you've adjusted the lead just right, since it is tangential. At some point, we may want to look at the reliability of the sources we're using now. I'm not sure about Turn For The Judges, WomenDiary.net, and Radar, although they may be fine. I've asked about Wikipedia:Reliable_sources/Noticeboard#New_York_Daily_News. - Peregrine Fisher (talk) (contribs) 06:48, 24 August 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Miss Teen USA?

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She never held that title? Lots of news sources comment on it."miss+teen+usa" - Peregrine Fisher (talk) (contribs) 19:01, 24 August 2009 (UTC)[reply]

[1] Never mind. - Peregrine Fisher (talk) (contribs) 19:01, 24 August 2009 (UTC)[reply]

She never was Miss Teen USA. "2002 won VANESSA SEMROW" and "2003, TAMI FARRELL (Oregon!!!)"

See also here [2] an here [3]

Google cache as reference

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I think it's going to disappear soon. I tried to save it at Webcite, but it's not allowed. I guess use it as long as it exists? - Peregrine Fisher (talk) (contribs) 05:51, 28 August 2009 (UTC)[reply]

That sucks, looks like PFW can't manage document its own history! I think that fact's suitably cited to other sources though, probably not a big deal to the article whatever we do. -Pete (talk) 07:20, 28 August 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Yeah. Provide it while we can. I don't think google cache lasts that long, so we should check back every few days and then deal with it if it goes dead. - Peregrine Fisher (talk) (contribs) 07:38, 28 August 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Madam allegation

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I changed the last sentence the following, since this is just an allegation: According to an August 31, 2009 FoxNews report, the Los Angeles Police Department is investigating allegations that Peniche is also a Hollywood madam.[19]Dogru144 (talk) 15:52, 31 August 2009 (UTC)[reply]

i agree. Meishern (talk) 20:18, 1 September 2009 (UTC)[reply]
In the absence of solid reliable sources (and I don't think the NY Daily News and its ilk qualify in a matter of potential libel), I removed the mention of this. If there is a criminal conviction, it would of course be acceptable. But in the current state, I think discussing it at all is probably a violation of WP:BLP; at minimum, it needs to be treated very cautiously.
I filed a request at the BLP noticeboard so hopefully an admin with more experience in this area will take a look and offer some guidance. -Pete (talk) 04:56, 8 September 2009 (UTC)[reply]
I am not an admin, but I also agree that with an allegation like this, we cannot rely on the NY Daily News, a not infrequent subject of libel cases (and we don't have their lawyers). The material should be removed until a better source confirms it.VsevolodKrolikov (talk) 05:01, 8 September 2009 (UTC)[reply]
If we cant rely on Fox News or Daily News, what are we supposed to rely on? Fox News is ultra conservative and Daily News is ultra liberal and both for once agree on something. Most articles site much more inferior sources. These are major news organizations that wouldn't publish such an allegation unless they had some hard facts. I don't see Peniche threatening to sue them for libel as any normal person would do if they were accused of untrue behavior. Perhaps we can cut it down to maybe 1-2 sentences, but I feel there is enough evidence to at least mention it. Meishern (talk) 21:03, 8 September 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Using Fox or Daily News is generally OK, but not when there is allegation of criminal activity on a BLP. The tone of the Fox story does not even suggest it's entirely serious; take this sentence as an example:
  • "Look, we're not saying that the scene in which she calls in a credit card number is anything more than her ordering Chinese food. We, thank goodness, weren't there."
It's not necessary that we provide up-to-the-minute news or repeat every rumor or allegation. If there's truth to it, it's likely there will be a conviction or more serious reporting, in which case we can base future coverage on that. But for the time being, the article is best left without mentioning this incident. It's more responsible, and it's also legally safer for the Wikimedia Foundation, and for you, and for me, in terms of legal liability. -Pete (talk) 21:41, 8 September 2009 (UTC)[reply]
hi! yes it a tongue in cheek article. non the less it does provide some information. also it is not the only article regarding this. There are many articles. Your noble view of protecting Wikipedia against possible lawsuits is nonsense, since this has been reported in multiple national newspapers and has not been discredited or even refuted by Kari Ann. So its being put back in. Meishern (talk) 00:11, 9 September 2009 (UTC)[reply]
If there are some really good sources on this, then we can include it. I haven't seen those sources yet. We might just want to wait on the police. - Peregrine Fisher (talk) (contribs) 03:28, 11 September 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Pronunciation of surname

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The article currently gives the pronunciation of her last name as "Pun-ee-chee", but assuming this is a Spanish surname (her father is from Mexico), then the correct pronunciation is closer to "Peh-NEE-chay". WatchAndObserve (talk) 04:47, 29 December 2009 (UTC)[reply]

It's just what ref 1 said. - Peregrine Fisher (talk) (contribs) 05:01, 29 December 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Well, ref 1 is obviously wrong. I just watched the first episode of Sex Rehab again, and she introduces herself on camera as "Kari Ann Peh-NEE-chay". WatchAndObserve (talk) 16:00, 30 December 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Her name is Portuguese. Her father can be mexican but his surname is portuguese. The correct pronunciation of "Peniche" is Peh-nee-sheh. Peniche, is also a portuguese town - my town ;) so I'm 100% sure of my words. There are some names used both by portuguese and spanish speakers, e.g. Silva, Santos, etc.

Too much information about personal issues?

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Anyone else think this article is unduly focused on Peniche's personal issues? I understand that might be what many people find interesting about her, but it's not the reason she's notable, and it doesn't need to be covered in the detail it is here - particularly when much of the content is only referenced to primary sources. Robofish (talk) 12:14, 16 June 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Her appearances on the Dr. Drew-related reality shows go quite a way to her reasons for notability, as does her nude tape, all of which pertain to her personal issues, so I don't think the amount of info is inappropriate. But if you can find validly sourced material on her not related to that, which is related to her notability, then that can be added too.

In any event, I don't see how that's a neutrality issue, given the tag you placed in the article. Nightscream (talk) 20:01, 16 June 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Coming back to this article a year later, I think it's fine - as Nightscream says, the 'personal issues' (and her public struggles with them) are a large part of her notability. I'll remove the template. Robofish (talk) 22:20, 28 August 2011 (UTC)[reply]
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