Talk:Krayot

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Comments

Why isn't Kiryat Shmuel included in the article? As tiny as it is, to my knowledge it is nonetheless a kirya in the Krayot and should be included if that is true. I'm not adding it because I don't have evidence that it is a separate kirya and not just a nicknamed neighborhood or something else. Mathan 10:47, 12 August 2006 (UTC)

Kiryat Shmuel is a neighbourhood which is part of Haifa (Kiryat Haim) and Kiryat Motzkin. -- Ynhockey ^(Talk) 18:49, 13 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]

name of article

HaKerayot is a mispronunciation. It is Krayot. To make any sense, the name of the article should be Krayot (Haifa). --Gilabrand (talk) 21:55, 23 February 2008 (UTC)[reply]

I agree that the 'e' doesn't need to be there, but don't think it should be called Krayot (Haifa). What's wrong with HaKrayot? -- Ynhockey ^(Talk) 22:36, 23 February 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Because it always appears as "the Krayot" in English sources.--Gilabrand (talk) 05:04, 24 February 2008 (UTC)[reply]

You have a point. In that case, there's no reason not to call the article simply Krayot, there's no need for the (Haifa) suffix. There is no other place in the world I know of known as 'Krayot', and if there was, it would be much less important. -- Ynhockey ^(Talk) 17:29, 24 February 2008 (UTC)[reply]

I suggest that the title of this page should be changed from "Krayot" to "HaKrayot" or perhaps "The Krayot". In Hebrew the Hah -(ַה)in front of the word Krayot(the villages/towns) represents to the word "The" in English. Israelis refer to the area as "Ha Krayot"

Who can make this change? if I can how do i do this? Thank you.

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Moshekaye (talk) 01:13, 2 August 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Technically you could make that change yourself; see Help:Moving a page. However, I think the current name is entirely appropriate; with the exception of cases where the article is part of the name itself (such as The Hague) Wikipedia page titles don't include articles; compare for example United States Army or Tower of London, which sources will usually also call "the US Army" and "the Tower of London", respectively. Thus if you want to move the page, a formal discussion would likely be more appropriate than boldly moving the page unilaterally; see WP:Requested moves on how to launch such a discussion. Huon (talk) 01:57, 2 August 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Thank you Huon. AFAIK there is no place in the world called "Krayot". In my experience Israelis always refer to it as "Ha Krayot" so perhaps that is the correct name rather than "The Krayot". Surely not "Krayot" in any event. Moshekaye (talk) 02:06, 2 August 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Requested move

The following discussion is an archived discussion of the proposal. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the proposal was no consensus. --BDD (talk) 17:59, 16 August 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Krayot → HaKrayot – There is no place in the world called "Krayot". In my experience Israelis always refer to the area just North of Haifa as "HaKrayot" so perhaps that is the correct name. Surely not "Krayot" and most likely not "The Krayot" (although this would be better). Thank you. Relisted. BDD (talk) 21:27, 9 August 2013 (UTC) Moshekaye (talk) 02:15, 2 August 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Oppose - For example, Haaretz refers to "the northern Krayot" - not "northern HaKrayot" or "northern The Krayot". Here is a headline: "Krayot bypass toll road to be built with private help" - no "the". And another. And the "the" in "... to build the Krayot bypass road." clearly refers to the road, not to the Krayot. "Rockets land in Krayot area". I have not seen a single instance of "The Krayot"; the "the" is not part of the name. Google News results for "HaKrayot" are comparatively rare, and the only organization commonly using that name in English is Human Rights Watch, not any Israeli news organization. Huon (talk) 15:17, 2 August 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose Krayot gets 406 Google Book hits[1] and HaKrayot 110 hits[2]. Not that I like going entirely byhits, I just don't see a convincing argument here.--Labattblueboy (talk) 18:22, 2 August 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Support In my option the problem is one of translation. There is no such word as "Krayot" in English so the Hebrew exact translation for that area(הקריות)(note the ה in hebrew) which is "The Krayot" should prevail regardless of the number of hits or English accommodations in newspapers. The word (krayot)קריות in Hebrew simply is the plural of (kriah)קריה and would translate as towns. However הקריות represents only the specific area of towns just north of Haifa, The Krayot.--Moshekaye (talk) 19:15, 2 August 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Comment - that's not what WP:COMMONNAME says. We should go with the most common name in English-language sources, and even Israelis writing in English don't consider "The" a part of the name, nor do they commonly use "HaKrayot". For comparison, the article on the capital of Italy is at "Rome", not "Roma", no matter what the Italians call it. Huon (talk) 21:17, 2 August 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Comment - Thank you for your feedback Huon. There is no common name in English for that area. Krayot means towns which does not represent the area under discussion. However, The Krayot does. I lived in the town of Kiryat Motzkin which is located in the area known in Israel as HaKrayot ("The Krayot") not in Krayot which does not exist, not in English and not in Hebrew. --Moshekaye (talk) 21:53, 2 August 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Haaretz, Globes and Ynetnews disagree with that assessment. Where are your sources? Huon (talk) 22:57, 2 August 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Please explain why in Hebrew it always includes the letter Hah+vowel(הַ) before krayot when reffering to that exact area of the country. Moshekaye (talk) 23:54, 2 August 2013 (UTC)[reply]

I don't speak Hebrew, but as I pointed out above, there's no reason to care what is done in Hebrew when we have multiple reliable English-language sources. Huon (talk) 01:34, 3 August 2013 (UTC)[reply]

We will have to agree to disagree based on my personal experience. If I told someone in Israel that I was going to Krayot, in Hebrew or English, they would look at me as if i had six heads (and I only have 5 :-) But if I used the same idiom re south shore, Massachusetts, for example, it would work fine. Hence the word "The" is part of the name of the area. I care because i used to live in the area and this title Krayot is inaccurate regardless of how the "English" press has translated it from the Hebrew sources. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Moshekaye (talk • contribs) 15:01, 3 August 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Oppose "the krayot" or "the Krayot" in English books. Can only see 1 ref for HaKrayot which specifically says "is a Hebrew term". In ictu oculi (talk) 01:02, 10 August 2013 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the proposal. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.