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GA Review

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This review is transcluded from Talk:Leslie Goonewardene/GA1. The edit link for this section can be used to add comments to the review.

Reviewer: Edwininlondon (talk · contribs) 13:40, 27 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]

I am in no way an expert but I shall check against the criteria. I may make the odd little edit directly in the article, for anything I deem not controversial. Please revert anything you think is incorrect. I will no doubt review this in multiple sessions, bit by bit. Edwininlondon (talk) 13:40, 27 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]

  • commonly known as Leslie Goonewardene --> I don't think we need this. It is understood. Compare, for example, the Featured Article Vincent van Gogh
  • was educated in Methodist, English-medium schools --> I think a re-order so that there is no awkward Methodist duplication may be better: Born into an aristocratic Panaduran family, Goonewardene was brought up Methodist, educated in English-medium schools, and speaking Sinhala as well as English.
  • he was sent for education in Britain --> when was this? Good to add because next sentence talks about Marxist teachings "of the time"
  • Goonewardene led the Lanka Sama Samaja Party ... and his escape to India --> Did he lead from Britain? Did he escape from Britain to India?
  • alongside Mahatma Gandhi, leading India's Independence from Britain in 1947. --> that is 3 times "leading in 8 lines. Perhaps rephrase one of them?
  • his first two terms in Government --> why Government with capital G? A bit further on you have "Through his government". When should it be capital?
  • and polarisation between the Sinhalese and Tamil populations because of Governmental Sinhalese nationalist policies and the Sinhala Only Act --> is this causality commonly accepted?

More later.

Thanks for the above suggestions! I've gone ahead and made the edits. I think some confusion on my end regarding the capitalisation of "government" resulted from how the word is capitalised after 'the', as in 'The Government'. I've ensured that this has been addressed. In regards to the polarisation between the Sinhalese and Tamil populations, I've changed the wording from 'because of' to 'furthered by'; some further reading is found on Origins of the Sri Lankan civil war from the sections "1970" onwards. SerAntoniDeMiloni (talk) 15:48, 27 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Here is more.

  • In the Infobox the nationality is Sri Lanka. But the country did not exist when he was born. Compare how it's done for Featured Article Muhammad Ali Jinnah. Also note that it should be an adjective.
  • caption "Goonewardene as a young adult with his family – Dr. Andrew Simon Goonewardene at the centre & Leslie." --> avoid the use of &. Plus I would keep the focus on Leslie: "Leslie Goonewardene as a young adult with his family, pictured at the centre with his father, Dr. Andrew Simon Goonewardene"
  • largest land owning families --> this to me suggest the family is large, instead of the land
  • The Methodists in Sri Lanka had played a prominent role, both locally and internationally, in the campaign to abolish slavery, make education more accessible, the Temperance Movement and among other things to inspire many great men including Nelson Mandela. --> Quite a few issues here. First I question the need of "local and internationally". It reads odd in combination with the beginning of the sentence. And I don't think the Mandela reference is relevant. I suspect that he was not inspired by the Sri Lankan Methodists. Lastly, the list doesn't flow. Would this be better: "The Methodists in Sri Lanka had played a prominent role in the campaigns to abolish slavery and to make education more accessible, and in the Temperance Movement."
  • Goonewardene's grandfather had funded and helped build the Panadura Methodist Church (where Rev. David De Silva's sermon went on to trigger the monuments Panaduravadya debate in 1873) and had invited the respective parties for the debate; a pivotal moment in Sinhalese history. --> First of all, it is odd to talk about the chapel building in an earlier sentence and the whole church here. These 2 things should be combined, probably at the first mention of the grandfather. Second of all, the bits in parentheses: is this referring to what was just said in the sentence before? If yes, then we don't need any of it. Am I right that the grandfather is the instigator of the debate? Then that probably should be combined with the previous sentence, where it says they agreed to the debate.
  • write a summary of the debate --> I think "write a summary of the debate in English" is better. I assume it was in English.
  • This translation --> is it really a translation? Was the summary first in another language and then translated into English?
  • came to Sri Lanka on 17 May 1880 --> It was not yet called Sri Lanka
Thanks for the feedback. I've made the suggested edits, as well as a couple of later changes on the use of 'Sri Lanka' or 'Ceylon'. I've also moved around and removed sections of the Panadura Debate section; let me know if it still needs any alterations. SerAntoniDeMiloni (talk) 11:38, 28 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Let me think about the 'Sri-Lanka (Ceylon at the time)' a bit more. It's tricky. Let me first get through the whole article and then we can discuss.

A bit more (sorry again for doing it piecemeal);

  • Instead, Goonewardene became influenced ... Harold Laski. --> Too long a sentence. And it has "instead" twice and "influenced" twice.
  • who was the niece of some of the leading leftist politicians --> that reads a bit odd, that "some". Can it be simply two?
I've gone ahead and made the edits. I've also significantly slimmed down the lead, having removed a couple of paras from it. SerAntoniDeMiloni (talk) 18:00, 29 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Onwards we go ...

  • Though Philip Gunawardena, N.M. Perera, Edmund Samarakkody and Colvin R. de Silva were detained in Ceylon, Goonewardene, his wife Vivienne, as well as Colvin R. de Silva were able to escape to India, Goonewardene's properties seized. --> so does that mean that Colvin R. de Silva escaped from prison? That should probably spelled out then, because this reads a little odd
  • established networks with the local Trotskyist networks --> networks twice is not great stylisticly
  • The meetings in 1940 and 1941 were attended by jailed LSSP leaders. --> How did this work? Were the meetings held in jail? I suspect the next sentence has the clue. Perhaps better to rephrase this and combine the 2 sentences into one, if indeed they are related. Well, not sure how, but it needs to be more clear.
  • Through this, the now public BLPI, led by Goonewardene, S.C.C. Anthonipillai, Robert Gunawardena, William de Silva and V. Karalasingham, led strike waves from May 1941 through 1942 and 1944. --> Two issues: First stylisticly, there is repetition of "led". Secondly, time wise it just is odd: the now public refers to 1942, so the May 1941 can't have been instigated by the "now public".
  • While the BLPI's name suggests that it also represented Burma --> No, not as the text is now. The section header mentions Burma but nothing else. The name issue, including Ceylon, and the acronym, needs to be addressed better.
  • The Bolshevik–Leninist Party, however, found later success, launching Spark, its party publication issued in Calcutta. --> By not using the acronym BLPI this suggests that Bolshevik–Leninist Party is another party with a very similar name, operating from Calcutta. Is that really the case?
  • Did he return to Ceylon prior to its independence? This is not clear. From the section headers it looks like he did. However, all of the text in Return to Sri Lanka is about after 1948. Should these sections be switched around?
  • Goonewardene and Colvin R. de Silva were also opposed --> also? do we need this?
  • vicious campaign of victimisation --> is this an impartial viewpoint?
  • CP --> this acronym is new. What does it stand for? United Front (Sri Lanka) says that it was not the CP but CPSL (Communist Party of Sri Lanka)
  • 'Can we get to socialism this way' --> this is a question, and thus should end in a "?". Is the original a question too?
Thanks for catching that one! It has the question mark as per the citation here: ([1]).
  • A couple of sections would benefit from a 'Main article' statement using
    Main article: [[:..]]
     : Vivienne, BLPI, Quit India, Independence
I'm not entirely sure what you mean by a main article statement. Would this be in the lead, or above etc.?
  • while providing a service which was never previously or subsequently matched --> according to whom or based on what evidence?
It was described this way in a source. Looking back, it does seem quite praising. I've gone ahead and removed this.
  • In addition to the role in management of the Employees' Councils, which the workers' committees were transformed into after being properly constituted, with democratic elections supervised by the Elections Commission, commuter organisations were included in an advisory role. --> This sentence doesn't flow very well.
  • CBS --> what does this stand for?
Central Bus Station (changed)
  • Anil Moonesinghe formed a 2,000-strong paramilitary body --> what is Goonewardene's role in this? How is this relevant in this section?
  • He also created 'CANTAB' --> Who is he? Goonewardene I assume
  • At the time of his entry into office, most of the railways were developed during the British colonial period, with the first line (from Colombo to Kandy) having had opening on 26 April 1867 --> citation needed
  • "There is a grave danger, if those people the Tamils, feel that a grave and irreparable injustice is done to them--> this quote needs a reference. Plus that comma after Tamils, is that in the original?
Yes, this quote was found in: ([2]). Another quote on the matter is here: ([3])
  • His cousin, Cholomondeley Goonewardene was also a prominent LSSPer. --> does not fit well in this section, plus needs areference
  • Philanthropy & school--> no references in the whole section
I've found a citation through a seemingly well established Facebook page. Unfortunately not much else can be found on the matter.
  • The illustration of Leslie as a young adult fits better in the section Education and raising a family
Thanks for reviewing this all! I've gone ahead and made all the suggested edits. I'll have a look at the references later. SerAntoniDeMiloni (talk) 09:21, 6 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]

References

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  • Goonewardene's mother died when he was a toddler. She was from the well-known Sri Fernando Chandrasekera family of 'Whitehall' Katana, one of the wealthiest families in Ceylon, privately owning very significant amounts of land. --> I'm not sure each of these statments is covered by reference 6. I suspect not, but can you double check?
I've added a link of a commemoration of the Patriarch in a major Sri Lankan newspaper. I believe 6 verifies a couple of the statements too.
  • Though in adulthood Goonewardene did not have any religious beliefs, as a boy he was influenced by the ideas of John Wesley --> I don't think this is covered by the next reference
I've added a reference. This is also covered in an interview he did in 1964. The interviews are available online to listen to on the University of Adelaide archives. I'm not sure how to add these?
  • The debate was held on 24 and 26 August 1873 at the site where the Rankot Vihara stands today. --> needs a reference
  • By 1970, Goonewardene believed he could implement his views best through the SLFP coalition, and joined the SLFP led United Front government. That year, the United Front, made up of the LSSP, was elected to power in landslide. The LSSP had 18 MPs in the House of Representatives. --> None of this seems to be supported by referenence 110 or 111.
I've managed to add a reference here.
  • I could not find the word Ikarus in reference 121
I've added 126, which contains reference to Ikarus. I believe "121" was regarding buses from Isuzu. Let me know if more are needed.
  • The local modification of ticket machines was started after employees pointed out many unsuitable features, and a new workshop was acquired for this. --> Is this covered by reference 124?
I've added two citations to reflect.
  • During Goonewardene's time in office, the road network grew exponentially to ensure easy transition to an industrialising nation; with the introduction of lorries, a faster means of transporting goods, the amount of goods transported by rail declined. --> needs a reference
I've added a couple of citations that reflect this.
  • The facts in Electoral history need references
Added refs from the Sri Lankan government.
  • Reference 3 says "Wright, Arnold, 1858-1941" --> what are these numbers?
I believe that's the author, and when he lived from. Should this be changed?
  • Make the way books are described consistent. For instance the Arnold Wright books differ in use ofcaptials, one lacks a publisher, one lack actual page number of the relevant material
  • Try to get an ISBN number for each book
  • For articles, give the name of author, if possible.
I tend to use the citation bot. Should I also add extra information?
  • For instance the last reference, "Leftist Dies". The Straits Times. 12 April 1983. p. 44. Does it have an author? The link does not work for me.
I think this must've been digitised. I've found a new address at ([4]). I suspect this is one of the notes found in newspapers that are more of a short piece - not naming the author.
  • ref 14 " List of the oldest schools in Sri Lanka" --> it is not allowed to use another wiki page as source
Thanks for catching that!
  • The 3 references to Mandela are no longer needed I think
  • Peebles, J. M. (James Martin), 1822-1922 --> What are these numbers?
Just as with Arnold, when these citations were added by a prior editor, I suspect they put the author's DOB and DOD there.
  • CeylonToday --> If this is a website it needs a .lk
Which citation is this?
Thanks for all the work you've put into this! I've gone through and addressed each of your comments. There were only a couple of questions there that it would be great to work through. SerAntoniDeMiloni (talk) 11:15, 6 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]

The end is in sight

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We are nearly there! Just a few things:

  • Looking back I think there is too much space dedicated to the The Panadura debate, which is before Leslie's time. Ideally that section is half its current size.
  • We had the issue of when to use Sri Lanka and when to use Ceylon. Any sentence about events before 1972 should be Ceylon. I think. Before 1948 cann still be Ceylon, as British Ceylon is a bit clumsy. There is only 1 exception I think: Leslie's nationality in the infobox. I think it should say:
British Ceylonese (1909–1948)
Ceylonese (1948–1972)
Sri Lankan (1972–1983).
If we take this as our guiding rule then "the 'Father of Socialism' in Sri Lanka (Ceylon at the time)" should simply be "the 'Father of Socialism' in Ceylon". Have a quick look if we follow these rules.
I'd agree. I've made these edits.
  • Main article: I have done as an example of what I mean for the Vivienne Goonewardene section. I think same could be done for these sections: BLPI, Quit India, Independence
Agreed. I've done this now.
  • Philanthropy & school--> Facebook pages are not acceptable as source. If there is nothing from reliable sources, the entire section needs to be removed unfortunately. Only statements that can be backed up from reliable sources can stay.
That's a shame. I've removed the section, but will try to search for some Sinhala citations. Alternatively, can an image clearly showing the school's 'founders' in the school be used?
I doubt it, but what is the source of the image? It really would be great to find some Sinhala citations. I'm afraid that for the time being this whole section needs to go. And also, therefore, the last sentence of the lead. Only things that are backed up by reliable sources can stay. Edwininlondon (talk) 20:59, 10 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
@Edwininlondon:. I'm going to try and contact the school and see if they have any documents. Anyway, I've gone ahead and made the edits. SerAntoniDeMiloni (talk) 21:08, 10 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
How about this: take away the last section and the last sentence of the lead. I then mark the article as passing all Good Artciel criteria. When you have found reliable sources to back up one or more statements of the old "Philantropy and school" section, you add them in? Edwininlondon (talk) 12:17, 11 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
@Edwininlondon:. That should work well! I've removed the sections in question. Thanks! SerAntoniDeMiloni (talk) 12:49, 11 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
The last sentence of the lead is still problematic as none of it is now mentioned in the body. Are there any sources to back up "Through his government, he introduced inheritance tax to Sri Lanka, much to the avail of established parlimentarians"? Alternatively, the lead could end with this nice statement: "Despite being one of the largest landowners in Sri Lanka through inheritance, by his death he had pledged all of his wealth to charitable organisations."
@Edwininlondon:. That works well. I've changed the last sentence of the lead to your suggestion. SerAntoniDeMiloni (talk) 09:34, 12 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • All the other references are fine now.

Nearly there. Edwininlondon (talk) 16:13, 10 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]

@Edwininlondon:. Thanks for all the help! SerAntoniDeMiloni (talk) 20:11, 10 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Conclusion

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This article now satisfies the criteria for Good Article in my view: reasonably well written, factually accurate and verifiable, broad in its coverage, neutral point of view, stable, illustrated. It was a pleasure working with you on this. Edwininlondon (talk) 10:29, 12 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks for all of your help! It's been great fun working on this article. SerAntoniDeMiloni (talk) 10:42, 12 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Did you know nomination

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The following is an archived discussion of the DYK nomination of the article below. Please do not modify this page. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as this nomination's talk page, the article's talk page or Wikipedia talk:Did you know), unless there is consensus to re-open the discussion at this page. No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was: promoted by Amkgp (talk) 06:39, 10 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]

(
)
Leslie Goonewardene
Leslie Goonewardene

References

  1. ^ Goonewardene, Leslie (0000 u). Can we get to socialism this way?. Colombo: The Times of Ceylon. OCLC 1056508031. {{cite book}}: Check date values in: |date= (help)
  2. ^ Perera, T. (2006). Revolutionary trails, Edmund Samarakkody: a political profile. Social Scientists' Association. ISBN 978-955-9102-80-9.
  3. ^ Wilson, A. Jeyaratnam (1988). The Break-up of Sri Lanka: The Sinhalese-Tamil Conflict. Hurst. ISBN 978-1-85065-033-1.
  4. ^ "Straits Times".{{cite web}}: CS1 maint: url-status (link)
  5. ^ Alexander, Robert Jackson (1991). International Trotskyism, 1929-1985: A Documented Analysis of the Movement. Duke University Press. ISBN 978-0-8223-1066-2.
  6. ^ Woodward, Calvin A. (1974). "Sri Lanka's Electoral Experience: From Personal to Party Politics". Pacific Affairs. 47 (4): 455–471. doi:10.2307/2755947. ISSN 0030-851X.

Improved to Good Article status by SerAntoniDeMiloni (talk). Self-nominated at 11:50, 18 July 2020 (UTC).[reply]

  • Very interesting article. Congrats on the GAN pass. Promoted to GA on July 12, 6 days before the DYK nom. Most definitely long enough. Fulfills core policies: the GAN was pretty extensive, so it seemed to check for neutrality, the sources look excellent, and there's no close paraphrasing.
  • I'm surprised the GAN didn't bring this up, and although it doesn't fall within the purview of a DYK review, I'm going to make the recommendation, anyway. Your end sections don't follow the standard WP article layout; see MOS:ORDER. For example, your "Books" section should be titled "Bibliography". Your "References" section is correct, but I don't see the books you cite (i.e., ref117: Phadnis 1971, p. 268). You need full citations for your books; see MOS:NOTES. There are different ways to do that, but you need to chose one and include it.
  • What you've done is fine for now, but it'd be more accurate to changed the "Authored books" section to "Bibliography" and "Bibliography" to "Works cited". I'd suspect that if you were to submit this article to FAC (which I recommend), they'd direct you to do the same. For DYK purposes, though, it's fine.
  • Your hooks are okay, but I would think that with such a long and interesting article about a very interesting dude, that your hooks would be more interesting. They focus on negative aspects of Goonewardene. Here are some other options:
  • Hi Christine (Figureskatingfan). Thanks for these suggestions – I'm still slightly conflicted. I suggested the initial (ALT2) hook to emphasise that despite being of immense wealth, he chose to give it all away (something very much contrary to Ceylonese politicians at the time, who largely held office due to, and with the aims of preserving, their wealth and influence). It would be interesting to hear your view. Thanks, SerAntoniDeMiloni (talk) 09:18, 29 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • My problem is its negative tone. All three hooks are basically the same, so I was trying to give you more options. How about rewording your hook so that it's more positive:
    • ALT6: ... that despite being one of the largest landowners in Sri Lanka, statesman Leslie Goonewardene (pictured), re-introduced inheritance tax to the country, despite the opposition of established parliamentarians?
I just counted, and your alts are also all a little over the 200 character limit. Any of the hooks are fine, so I'll go ahead and pass this article for DYK.
  • That's fair, Christine (Figureskatingfan) (talk). In that case, I'd go with your suggestion (ALT6 with a couple of tweaks) – I reckon ALT6.5 may be best. Many thanks for your help!
    • ALT6.5: ... that despite being one of the largest landowners in Sri Lanka, statesman Leslie Goonewardene (pictured), re-introduced inheritance tax to the country, much to the avail of established parliamentarians?
    • ALT6.6: ... that despite being one of the largest landowners in Sri Lanka, statesman Leslie Goonewardene (pictured), re-introduced inheritance tax to the country, despite the opposition of established parliamentarians?
  • Hi, I came by to promote ALT6.5 (although I think it's too long), and I do not understand what much to the avail means. Please explain. Yoninah (talk) 14:04, 5 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • @Figureskkatingfan: Actually, I was just concentrating on the grammar in the hook. But after reading the article, I see that these two facts — that he was one of the largest landowners and that he re-introduced inheritance tax — are not conjoined in the article. It would make more sense to write:
  • ALT7: ... that while Leslie Goonewardene (pictured) was one of the largest landowners in Sri Lanka through inheritance, he re-introduced inheritance tax to the country? Yoninah (talk) 17:34, 5 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Might 7.5 suit better?
  • @SerAntoniDeMiloni: please be aware that a "hook" is just that: a way to "reel in" readers so they'll click on the article to learn more. If you pack everything into an overlong hook, there's no reason to read more. You could shorten your alt this way (and let's stop using fractions in the ALT numbering please:
Makes sense. Alt 7 likely works best. Many thanks, SerAntoniDeMiloni (talk) 10:35, 6 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Returned to noms page until image licensing is sorted. Yoninah (talk) 20:31, 8 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]
* Hold on evrik. The correspondence is essentially complete! Apologies for the delays... SerAntoniDeMiloni (talk) 16:18, 20 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]
* No, Evrik. Multiple photos are being challenged here which are critical to the article. Flibirigit (talk) 17:26, 20 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • The images look lie they are going to deletion. The article is not dependent on the images. I doubt the dark image highlighted here would be selected for DYK. Let's move this forward without the image. --evrik (talk) 01:59, 25 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]
* Hi evrik. Images are no longer for deletion. This can be passed @Hdolf. Thanks everyone SerAntoniDeMiloni (talk) 09:12, 25 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Hi Yoninah. I believe the photos have been correctly licensed, but the OTRS would further prove that (possibly making this fall under AGF). As per my conversation with BlueMoonset, I've been speaking to the photo author who's been going through the OTRS, and it seems that he's been having some timing issues. He hasn't received a response to an email reply he sent 7 days ago, and the process seems to be going in circles, with the same questions being asked. Thanks for all your patience. SerAntoniDeMiloni (talk) 08:25, 30 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Courtesy pings: @Figureskatingfan, Yoninah, Evrik, and Flibirigit: Narutolovehinata5 tccsdnew 14:52, 5 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Thanks for the ping. Yah, I'm okay with no image. Christine (Figureskatingfan) (talk) 15:22, 5 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Would removing the image in the meantime work? The image could always be restored if the OTRS thing passes. Narutolovehinata5 tccsdnew 01:28, 6 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Yes but probably also in the article. Narutolovehinata5 tc csdnew 07:11, 6 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]
I'd be open to removing the hook image, but not article images. As a GA, the article (which is quite dense) requires the images to be legible SerAntoniDeMiloni (talk) 09:21, 6 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]

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