Talk:Luri language

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Previously headerless discussion[edit]

According to the Encyclopedia Iranica Lori is not a dialect of Persian: I speak myself Lori and I know that it is not a dialect of Persian but an own distinctive language. --ShapurAriani 19:50, 8 January 2006 (UTC)

The synonym of this article by Encyclopedia Iranica is "Lori dialects". Also the Scholars in Colombia university dont know it as distinctive language!!!!!!!!!!! One can read about this langunge more in this Encyclopedia:
it is possible to come to some firm conclusions about the language spoken by the Lori group and arrive at a kind of West Persian typology.......... All Lori dialects closely resemble'' standard Persian and probably developed from a stage of Persian similar to that represented in Early New Persian texts written in Arabic script
One finds some differences between "Lori dialects" and "standard Persian", but they are not sufficient to define a new separat language. 16:17, 10 January 2006 (UTC)
Ps:Another Source: Encyclopedia Brittanica and Article Bakhtyari:
They speak the Luri dialect of Persian and are Shi'ite Muslims----------------------- 16:24, 10 January 2006 (UTC)

According to Encyclopedia Iranica they speak a distinvtive language. It is like Sorani and Gorani both are very near together, but they are two distinctive langueges. There are so many northwestern Iranian languages, thus why there should only be ONE southwestern Iranian language? This is non-sense and is due the Persian chauvinism. Luri was, is and will be a distinctive language beside Persian.

Even Ethnologue classify Luri as an OWN language. --ShapurAriani 17:16, 10 January 2006 (UTC)

Dear user please dont use the Word Persian chaunism for any arguments in Wikipedia. Wenn Encyclopedia Iranica and Encyclopedia Brittanica are both Chaunism then what are your arguments?? You see: Luri is known as dialect in Encyclopedia Iranica and in Encyclopedia Brittanica too. They are both academic Sources, which are acceptable by any philologists and intellectual Persons.
Please read my reason above. and read the (only) diferneces between "standard Persian" and "Luri", which are descraibed in Encyclopedia Iranica.
Please dont get me wrong. Do you believe if another user find the academic reasons, Chaunism or the arguments of an user who works in wikipedia wthout any neutral and available sources and doesnt atend the Wikipedia:Etiquette the most importants in Wikipedia? 20:07, 10 January 2006 (UTC)

Where is in Encyclopdeia Iranica written that Luri is a dialect of Persian? No where! Why you are writing this non-sense? You know as I know as all people of Iran know Luri is an distinctive language. Yes Luri is very very related to Persian, but it is NOT a dialect of Persian. I am student of Iranian language studies, thus you want say me that the classification technics of linguistics are wrong but you are right? This is a political game. Lurs are not Persians and will never be Persians. They speak a distinctive language. Iranica says it is an distinctive language and many other sources says too it is an distinctive language! I am going to post here a Luri text, when only ONE Persian will be able to understand it I will accept that Luri is a dialect of Persian, but I know that this is impossible, because it would mean, that they could understand too Sorani/Kurmanji! Do they? @Admin: This is a political game of Persian chauvinists who claim Lurs are Persians. Ethnologue classify Luri as an distinctive language and beside this Ethnologue classifiy too Zazaki/Gorani as distinctive languages, beside Sorani/Kurmanji"Kurdish". I am not here to discuess about facts. Fact is Luri is a distinctive language and claiming it is a dialect of Persian means claiming something which is scientifical not true! For 100 years they claimed even Sorani/Kurmanji are dialects of Persian. Thus when today someone claim Luri is a dialect of Persian then due his lack of knowladge. I don't think that any of you ever hear/read Luri or ever read a book about the Luri language. --ShapurAriani 10:44, 15 January 2006 (UTC)

You find as Reader the article lori dialects and not lori languange in Encyclopedia Iranica. I hope that you belive, the word "dialects" is not a work of persian chausnists in an academical Encyclopedia. As an iranistic-student one schould know it :-).
I wrote some words from Encyclopedia Iranica above, the repetetion is not necessary. Morever: The vocable "lori dialect of Persian" is clearly used (see above) by Encyclopedia Brittanica too, which is an available and academical Encyclppedia as well as Iranica.
Dear user: the word "Persian chaunism" or similar another reproaches are not reasons and correspond no source in wikipedia. They are not tolerated here and actually not by me. Please read Wikipedia:Etiquette, because It is not better for you, to use such words or rather reproachs again. See this words as my last Please. Thanks for your attention.
If you are really an iranistic-student (????????????????) you schould know Baba Tahir, He was one of the most known Persian Poets in Lori dialect. who called his Poems lori dialect in Farsi too. While another poets like Rumi,... used khorassani dialect of Persian (Farsi). The Poems of Baba Tahir are teached in iranain schools and another academic places of the world as a part of persian literature 14:10, 15 January 2006 (UTC) (

FYI: Baba Tahir poems are cited in Gurani and Laki not in Luri! He also practiced Yarsan Religion that is a kurdish religion. How do you say that it is luri???--Lekistan (talk) 13:43, 26 June 2010 (UTC)

Ps: Only the users, who dont give any reason or source in Wikipedia are intrested in plitical games and write nonsence in Wikipedia. They dont attend Wikipedia:Etiquette and more ever, attack another users with some reproaches, since they dont find better methods :-). You dont believe it???? :-)) 14:38, 15 January 2006 (UTC) (

HI, I as a Lurish speaker and native, evince my deep and huge COMMISERATION about this blunder. Lurish is a separate language in Iran which is acknowledged by Persian majority except some dogmatics that abuse unawareness of scientific society about this certain and INDISPUTABLE reality. This will be a considerable VITUPERATION from wikipedia for the natives and I obtest you to emendate this abusive phrase (lori dialects) and convert it into (Luri Language).--Wishar (talk) 11:37, 12 September 2009 (UTC)

It's so funny! You're not talking about a dead subject. Lors are alive! They are speaking Lori. I'm from KhoramAbad If Lori is not a distinctive language then it is much more closer to kurdish than the persian! I don't refer you to your outdated and incomplete documentation I'm referring you to living people out there....

Anonymous cowards[edit]

Bachtiari is according to Ethnologue a language. I find it astonishing that this is not reflected in the English Wikipedia. It will be even more astonishing once there is a sufficiently sized project in the Incubator and the most relevant MediaWiki messages localised, and there will be a Wikipedia in this language.

I am also astounded by the amount of anonymous cowards clamouring for a viewpoint that does not stack up to what is considered the position of the relevant standard in this domain. Thanks, GerardM (talk) 12:50, 8 June 2008 (UTC)

Ethnologue is not a reliable academic source ("Compendium Linguarum Iranicarum" is an example of reliable academic sources on this topic). Alefbe (talk) 23:14, 28 January 2009 (UTC)

HI, I as a Lurish speaker and native, evince my deep and huge COMMISERATION about this blunder. Lurish is a separate language in Iran which is acknowledged by Persian majority except some dogmatics that abuse unawareness of scientific society about this certain and INDISPUTABLE reality. This will be a considerable VITUPERATION from wikipedia for the natives and I obtest you to emendate this abusive phrase (lori dialects) and convert it into (Luri Language).--Wishar (talk) 18:23, 11 September 2009 (UTC)

Lori is a collection of southwestern Iranian dialects. This is how experts describe it (for that you can see "Compendium Linguarum Iranicarum" or related articles in Iranica). Alefbe (talk) 21:19, 11 September 2009 (UTC)

SHAME WIKIPEDIA, This is Lurish Language not Lori dialects, please correct it emergencely. —Preceding unsigned comment added by (talk) 08:43, 21 November 2009 (UTC)

Hey Shame wikipedia, i condemn your mistake, please edit it urgently! —Preceding unsigned comment added by (talk) 07:56, 15 December 2009 (UTC)


As in "Luri is only a lahjeh ‘dialect’ of Farsi".

This is not an English word, can anybody offer a translation? I suspect it is Farsi but I don't have a Farsi keyboard and don't know how to spell in Farsi so I can't get a translation on my own. Erxnmedia (talk) 14:30, 25 May 2010 (UTC)

lahjeh is لهجه in Farsi. Kubek15 write/sign 15:30, 25 May 2010 (UTC)

So the word لهجه in Farsi means "idiom", "dialect", "intonation" or "accent". So in the article where the text is

"Luri is only a lahjeh ‘dialect’ of Farsi"

A better statement in pure English would be something like

Luri is just heavily accented Farsi

Is that correct? Thanks, Erxnmedia (talk) 21:28, 25 May 2010 (UTC)


Takabeg (talk) 03:26, 4 September 2011 (UTC)

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Recent contested changes[edit]

Mjbmr, if you want to make contested changes, you need to justify them. Read WP:BOLD to learn about how Wikipedia operates. Here are a couple problems with your edits:

  • "Western Asia" is not the part of Iran where Luri is spoken
  • Laki is not a dialect of Luri, not according to the sources you're using
  • You got the Glottolog name wrong, and are listing the ref redundantly
  • You are deleting the ref'd classification of Luri being Persid
  • Southern Luri has more than 875 speakers. Since you falsely claim Ethnologue says that, your edit is fraudulent.
  • Your dialect articles are WP:CONTENTFORKs.

It doesn't look like you bother to review your edits. When people point out that you're making errors, and you insist on reverting to them, then you're being disruptive. — kwami (talk) 17:34, 30 May 2015 (UTC)

See Western Asia, and see File:Zagros Folded Zone.jpg. Mjbmr (talk) 21:14, 30 May 2015 (UTC)
Yes, see Western Asia, since it proves my point. — kwami (talk) 21:46, 30 May 2015 (UTC)
The UN classification system places Iran in Southern Asia, not Western Asia (see File:Location-Asia-UNsubregions.png), so it is probably not a good idea to identify the region where Luri is spoken as "Western Asia". Also, Western Asia seems to include a lot of territory that is outside of the region where Luri is commonly spoken. —BarrelProof (talk) 21:43, 30 May 2015 (UTC)
See dialects of Luri in Ethnologue: lrc, bqi and luz, do you see other countries beside Iran and Iraq this language are spoken? Iran and Iraq both are in Western Asia region not Southern Asia. Mjbmr (talk) 21:53, 30 May 2015 (UTC)
Ah, no. That's not what "region" is for. We don't expect our readers to be so ignorant that they have to be told where Iran is. "Region" is for the region of Iran or Iraq where the language is spoken. — kwami (talk) 21:56, 30 May 2015 (UTC)
Stop trolling and give a reason against my resources otherwise. Mjbmr (talk) 22:00, 30 May 2015 (UTC)

This may also be a good place to discuss the changes that Mjbmr is trying to make at Southern Luri language and Northern Luri language, as well as the changes they are trying to make to this article. This is probably what Kwami meant in the comment about WP:CONTENTFORKs, but I thought it would be desirable to point out exactly which other articles this is about. Since those two pages have previously only been redirects, there are probably very few people who have them on their watchlists. —BarrelProof (talk) 21:18, 30 May 2015 (UTC)

Please provide references for Persid classification. Mjbmr (talk) 21:22, 30 May 2015 (UTC)
Windfurh (2009), the same as all of our Iranian language articles. — kwami (talk) 21:46, 30 May 2015 (UTC)
Provide a reference link. Mjbmr (talk) 21:55, 30 May 2015 (UTC)
I search the article for "Windfurh" and "2009" and did not find either one. Is that source identified in some other way in the article? —BarrelProof (talk) 22:07, 30 May 2015 (UTC)
It's in the classification section of the Western Iranian language article. We choose or agree on a RS for a family, and then the child articles inherit that classification. That helps prevent articles form contradicting each other. Citation is rarely a problem, and when it is, we just copy the ref from the parent article. — kwami (talk) 22:20, 30 May 2015 (UTC)
Thank you. I just added a citation for it by extracting it from Western Iranian languages. Feel free to move it to some other location in the article if the place where I put it is not ideal. —BarrelProof (talk) 22:26, 30 May 2015 (UTC)
Also there is no such a language called "Luri language‎", the article title must be "Luri language‎s", and other dialect which have their own iso 639-3 code and being considered as separate languages, deserve to have an article, read ISO 639-3. Mjbmr (talk) 21:27, 30 May 2015 (UTC)
You need evidence for your claims, or we'll ignore them. And ISO coding is largely irrelevant: We're not ISO. — kwami (talk) 21:46, 30 May 2015 (UTC)
I can see you and BarrelProof are not ISO. ISO 639-3 is a reference. Mjbmr (talk) 21:57, 30 May 2015 (UTC)
ISO is not a WP:Reliable source. Classifications in reliable sources trump ISO. — kwami (talk) 22:20, 30 May 2015 (UTC)
ISO (International Organization for Standardization) is not even a source. ISO 639-3 operates by SIL International. Mjbmr (talk) 22:41, 30 May 2015 (UTC)
Northern Luri is spoken in Iraq, see, we have separate locale for it in CLDR, see. Mjbmr (talk) 21:35, 30 May 2015 (UTC)
The first sentence of that source says that "While nearly five million Luri live in southwestern Iran, only approximately 70,000 live in Iraq." So about 99% of the Luri speakers live in Iran, and the remaining fragment of the speaking population is probably found in the border region. If we want to summarize where the Luri speakers are found, capturing 99% seems like a pretty good summary. Adding a mention of northern Iraq might also be justified if necessary, but a dramatic broadening beyond that to cover a much-larger vaguely-defined region does not seem justified. Incidentally, that source seems rather biased, as it is some kind of evangelical Christian publication, so it's not clear to me how reliable its statistics are ("The Luri are nearly all Muslim. Most of them have never once heard the Gospel. Who will share the Truth with these precious people?"). —BarrelProof (talk) 22:35, 30 May 2015 (UTC)
First of all we're not talking about religion, but Ethnologue is the source: lrc, bqi and luz. Mjbmr (talk) 22:45, 30 May 2015 (UTC)
I was just looking at the source you cited. Looking at the three more that you just cited in your new comment, I see that only one of them mentions Iraq, and that one says only "possibly". All three seem to say these language variants are essentially just in Iran. I admit I'm no expert on this at all; I'm just looking at what the mentioned sources say. —BarrelProof (talk) 22:52, 30 May 2015 (UTC)
I also just looked at the source cited in the article that is used to support the claim that it is a language native to Iraq. The source actually says the opposite. It says that there is a small population of Luri speakers in Iraq, but that those speakers were from Iran and were essentially pushed into Iraq by relatively recent events. The infobox entry says it is for where the language is "Native to", and that source doesn't support that. Otherwise, we'd be saying the Persian language is native to the United States. —BarrelProof (talk) 23:02, 30 May 2015 (UTC)
But the "glottolog" File:Lurish Language Map.png map seems to support the inclusion of eastern Iraq. —BarrelProof (talk) 23:15, 30 May 2015 (UTC)
Correction above per comment below. —BarrelProof (talk) 05:23, 31 May 2015 (UTC)
Glottolog does not produce maps. (Well, they give single points on a map, basically the centres of distribution, which is in Iran for all three Luri entries.) The Iraqi part of the range in our map corresponds to Southern Kurdish in Ethnologue. It's made from a "Lurs" book, which isn't a ref that I can identify.
The Encyclopedia Iranica article[1] makes no mention of Iraq. It does, however, support Mjbmr in stating that N Luri and S Luri are probably not related as a unit (i.e., that there is no Luri language). — kwami (talk) 03:18, 31 May 2015 (UTC)

Content dispute[edit]

POV-push and reliability of sources[edit]

Hello, please look at this and this edits of user:Shadegan. It's important to look at sources. For example, the user:Shadegan added , Erik John Anonby as a so-called source which supports Laki belongs to Luri language. But if you read pages 19 and 20, you can see a comparison of Pish-e Kuh Laki with Kurdish and Luri. After that the author says: Pish-e Kuh Laki is aligned with Kurdish rather than Luri. This is distortion of information. User:Shadegan is also adding some persian sources which can not be checked/proved. Thanks.--Gomada (talk) 11:44, 30 December 2015 (UTC)

  • Another falsifying from User:Shadegan. The source says:Fayli (Faylee, Faili, or Feli) Kurds are, as their name tells, an inseparable segment of the Kurdish population in Iraq and an integral part of the Kurdish nation, which is divided among many countries in the Middle East, mainly Iraq, Iran, Syria and Turkey. Fayli Kurds have themselves shown, over the years, and still show this fact and reality by words and deeds. They speak a dialect that belongs to the southern Kurdish dialect called Luri which is spoken in the southern areas of Kurdistan proper, particularly on both sides of the border areas between Iraq and Iran. And the user:Shadegan is using this source as a proof of so called Lur identity. Who will stop this vandalism?--Gomada (talk) 11:44, 30 December 2015 (UTC)
  1. Source: Ethnic Groups of Africa and the Middle East: An Encyclopedia :In 1106 a group of Kurds from Syria arrived and settled on lands of Jangrawi Atabeks.They were later joined by other tribal peoples, mainly Kurds, but also several Arab tribes. From these emerged Lur tribes of today; the Bakhtiari, Kuh-Gilu, Fayli and Mamasani.Many Lur tribal groups such as the Kuh-Gilu are composed of Luri, Kurdish and Arab origins. . Where is the mention of Feyli Lurish and Laki Lurish?
  2. Najm S. Mehdi, al-Fayli, Stockholm 2001. is a given source. But I found nothing on internet.
  3. B. Grimes, (ed.), Luri, in Ethnologues 13th edition), Dallas 1996, p.677 This is another source for term of Laki Lurish. I searched and didn't find anything like that. Can you show us please a direct link which we can read?
  4. فرهنگ ایران زمین، جلد 20، ص a persian source which we can not prove it. Does someone speak persian?
  5. بومیان دره مهرگان) تألیف رحیمی عثمانوندی another persian source.
  6. An Ethnographic and Ecological Survey of Luristan, Western Persia: Modernization in a Nomadic Pastoral Society. Middle Eastern Studies page 27 says: No serious linguistic study has yet been published of either Luri or Lakki. But there may be some empirical support for the theory that Lakki is a derivative of Kurdish and that present day Lakki speakers are descendad from 16.-17. century Kurdish immigrants or conquerers from the north. Again, where are the terms of Feyli Lurish and Laki Lurish?

Dear users (@Kwamikagami, BarrelProof, Hosseiniran, Number 57, Jenks24, and PanchoS:), these are all sources used by User:Shadegan for 4 articles (Luri language, Laki dialect, Lak People in Iran, Feyli Kurds) to create terms as Fayli Lurish, Laki Lurish and Fayli Lurs. I'm bored of wasting my time to repeat (I'm not here to play edit-war game!) and said the user many times, please bring your claims to talk page. The user didn't try to communicate, didn't care ASSUMEGOODFAITH, kept personal attack (his contributions and below his messages). I hope, you can write your opinion and we find a solution for this case. Thanks in advance!--Gomada (talk) 13:10, 6 January 2016 (UTC)

POV-push and Large-scale vandalism effort by user: Gomada[edit]

As it was asked by English Wikipedia administrators, I provided some authentic and valid references for Lurish Identity of Feyli Lurs in two edited pages. As you can see in the history of these pages the user User:Gomada has changed and removed these logical and authentic edits. As an old user of Wikipedia I think some users have imagined and counted this invaluable and useful encyclopedia as a farce and mischief area to distort the realities and promote their ethnocentric and ambitious aims. I hope Wikipedia adminstrators and other realistic users help to stop and prevent such inappropriate vandalism efforts.--Shadegan (talk) 13:54, 30 December 2015 (UTC)

Stop your personal attack and show us the mention of Feyli Lurish and Laki Lurish in sources. Where? As I mentioned above, you are falsifying sources.--Gomada (talk) 15:43, 30 December 2015 (UTC)
This appears to be a CONTENTDISPUTE, not VANDALISM. Engaging in an EDITWAR is not the appropriate way to resolve a content dispute, and all parties involved should strive to ASSUMEGOODFAITH and avoid PERSONAL attacks. —BarrelProof (talk) 17:58, 1 January 2016 (UTC)

As everyone can see and trace, there are good and authentic citations and sources mentioned n the page. Don't forget you're not an administrator of English Wikipedia , thus you don't have any authority to remove well-documented citations and edits. Your question in talk page is not related to these edits. Know your right and limits and stop vandalism efforts.--Shadegan (talk) 19:23, 5 January 2016 (UTC)


Thanks for pinging me and others for help in resoving this dispute. From the reciprocal allegations I don't immediately get a picture about the actual subject of conflict but will take a deeper look at the page histories. All I can see is that both of you are at times misrepresenting Wikipedia policies: for example, it is perfectly fine to use Persian-language sources, if no comparable English-language sources are available, even though that means only few editors are able to check the source's validity. On the other side, administrators don't have an exclusive authority in removing contested material. In quite a number of situation, including cases of massive misrepresantation of sources, everybody may remove sourced material. Now I understand about the explosivity of this dispute within the larger context of Kurdish aspirations as a nation, but if everybody could try and calm down a bit, we can surely find a WP:NPOV solution. --PanchoS (talk) 14:21, 6 January 2016 (UTC)

@PanchoS: I'm not against sources in other languages. But if there is no direct link, how can we be sure that such sources exist and are not falsified? The user falsified even English sources (For example the user gave website of Faylee Kurd Democratic Union as a source supporting his claim.).--Gomada (talk) 15:15, 7 January 2016 (UTC)

Yes, thanks for the ping. I have noticed the edit warring and unfriendly remarks, and I hope this can be stopped and a proper consensus can be reached that will benefit the readers of Wikipedia by providing them with accurate reliably sourced information, but I am afraid I do not have an adequate understanding of this subject matter. —BarrelProof (talk) 21:01, 6 January 2016 (UTC)

I think, no need to be professional about topic to understand the falsifying. Maybe you didn't have enough time to check sources that I mentioned above. The user tried to create terms such as Laki Lurish, Fayli Lurish , Fayli Lurs (WP:No original research) and used those sources to support his claim. Such terms and claims are not mentioned on those sources. That is what I'm trying to tell but the user kept his POV/personal attack and didn't prove his claims.--Gomada (talk) 15:15, 7 January 2016 (UTC)

Reverting to the versions of the articles prior to the edit wars. — kwami (talk) 00:33, 7 January 2016 (UTC)

@Kwamikagami:, the user reverted your all edits. What did we understand from this discussion?--Gomada (talk) 15:34, 9 January 2016 (UTC)
Dear users, thanks for your attention to this dispute. Unfortunately some users are trying to achieve ambitious ethnocentric aims and not historically-verified and documented facts are seeking especially in case of so-called the Greater Kurdistan territory. Our goal in free encyclopedia is to promote realistic and not ethnocentric knowledge. I provided some valid citations and sources to discuss but they were moved several times by the user Gomada.
Another falsifying and WP:POVPUSH objective evidence is in cases of Feyli people page [2] and their language [3] which was converted to Feyli Kurds and Southern Kurdish language by this users Oblivious to hot discussions and dispute over their Lurish or Kurdish identity. I hope we find a solution for this dispute. I proposed a move requset to convert these pages to their original names Feyli People and Feyli language and not Feyli Lurs to discuss this pages more honestly. You can see many opposition views over these pages in their talk section.
Best regards.--Shadegan (talk) 17:14, 7 January 2016 (UTC)
@Shadegan:What are you talking about? (Above) I listed the sources that you've falsified. Will you say something about reality? --Gomada (talk) 15:34, 9 January 2016 (UTC)
@Gomada: I wonder what are you seeking for? The citations mentioned are completely logical and clear even by your rambling reasonings. As a researcher you should consider citations and it is your task as a researcher to extract them anyway. Do you expect me to translate them for you?!! Wikipedia mission is to promote realistic and authentic sciences not ethnocentric and ambitious edits. Please be honest to it and take a look at WP:PURPOSE. --Shadegan (talk) 17:28, 10 January 2016 (UTC)
Still no answer (mention of Laki Lurish, Fayli Lurish??), but personal attack. So, let's do it so: a simple example; Can you please tell us why do you use "the website of Faylee Kurd Democratic Union as a source for claim of Feyli Lurish(here). I hope, this is not a complicated question for you.--Gomada (talk) 17:11, 13 January 2016 (UTC)

@Shadegan: Please stop edit-warring while the discussion is ongoing. If you continue, I will go to ANI and request that you be blocked. I reverted to the versions of the articles prior to either of your edits, so that neither of you takes precedence. It may take a while to resolve this dispute as there are few editors who are qualified to decide it. You may want to try WP:RFC or other remedies to increase independent input. — kwami (talk) 01:27, 10 January 2016 (UTC)