Talk:Minced oath/Archive 1

September 2011

I think someone mentioned "Jesus H. Christ." I was always interested in that one. Another seems to be "Sam Hill." The Wiki entry goes on at length about a guy named Samuel Hill. But I think that ultimately "What in the Sam Hill?" is just a way to say "What the hell?" without actually cursing. — Preceding unsigned comment added by JackBlair (talk • contribs) 01:08, 13 September 2011 (UTC)

The "blended with 'fuck'" nonsense

Where have these definitions come from? Some of them don't look right to me.

Eg:

• Heck = 'Hell' blended with 'Fuck'
• Shucks = 'Shit' blended with 'Fuck'

Just because they have a ck in, does it mean they're blended with "fuck"? I've never though of either of them as that. Checking them in the OED and Merriam-Webster, both say the same thing: heck is a euphamism for hell, and shucks is from shuck which means the shell of a pea, hence something of little/no value - neither dictionary mentions shit or fuck for these words. I guess this whole list needs checking. fabiform | talk 14:41, 2 Apr 2004 (UTC)

You're right. Check out http://www.etymonline.com/index.php?search=heck&searchmode=none and http://www.etymonline.com/index.php?search=shucks&searchmode=none . Citizen Premier 16:25, 7 August 2005 (UTC)

Heck = Hell + Fuck

I've always assumed it to be granted that Heck is a combination of Hell and Fuck. Notice that "heck" and "fuck" occur in the same type of expressions (of course not every instance) where no other "swear" word can occur.

• What the fuck?
• What the hell?
• What the heck?

But:

• What the shit?
• What the damn?
• What the ass?
• What the bitch?

The last four don't make any sense, do they? Although the first ones don't make sense literally, they have an interpretable meaning. If you disagree with me, you can get the fuck out of here, because I don't know what the hell you're talking about. JesseRafe 04:56, 8 March 2007 (UTC)

- Disagree. "By Heck!" is an old Northern English exclamation still common in Yorkshire and "By Fuck" makes as little sense as anything in the second list. There are many instances where, in British English at least, "hell" and not "fuck" would be the obvious alternative to "heck" (at least until the last few years, when it seems to be "fuck" with everything - can I blame rap music?); e.g. "I got one heck of a fright". My late father told me that "Heck" was a shortening of "Hecate" but I can't find any support for that, though I could speculate that "'ecky thump" (polite alternative to "bloody hell") is a corruption of "Hecate". NickS 10:30, 9 March 2007 (UTC)

Wait, I just want to say, for the sake of irony, that this talk page on minced oaths is more profane that the one on profanity. -Uagehry456|Talk 04:42, 21 April 2007 (UTC)

Hmm. Strange. Two very strong swear words make a minced oath. That's a first.-- Barkjon  23:10, 26 June 2008 (UTC)

According to the OED, Heck is a "Euphemistic alteration of hell". First known use they show is in 1865. There is nothing in the OED to suggest that it is an amalgam of Hell and Fuck.--Schrodinger's cat is alive (talk) 14:20, 20 April 2011 (UTC)

Feck

I don't believe "feck" deserves to be mentioned as a euphemism for "fuck". "Feck" was established in common Irish speech, apparently not related to "fuck"—instead a corruption of Irish Gaelic words. - Doshea3 19:40, 26 Jun 2005 (UTC)

Cite reliable sources, then. Everything I've ever read about "feck" and the increasingly commong "foak" (more a N.Ir. variant, I think), and "fick", another Irish variant spelling/pronunciation, is that they are in fact simply variants of "fuck". — SMcCandlish [talk] [cont] ‹(-¿-)› 08:42, 23 September 2009 (UTC)

By Jove

"(Jove is another name for Zeus, the most powerful Roman deity)"

The Roman god to which this refers is most commonly known as Jupiter, and the link points to a page entitled Jupiter, so why use the name Zeus, which is almost always used in reference to the Greek god? I'd change this myself, but my knowledge of classical mythology is extremely limited, and it seems obvious enough that it would not have been unintentionally, although I can't fathom why it should be so.

TheJames 17:00, 4 August 2005 (UTC)

That should certainly be fixed; Zeus is improper here. — SMcCandlish [talk] [cont] ‹(-¿-)› 08:42, 23 September 2009 (UTC)

I suggested a link between "by Jove" and "Jehovah", but Jfruh removed it entirely because they're not etymologically related. True, "Jove" in this phrase is etymologically the short name for "Jupiter", and expanding "Jove" as "Jehovah" in this instance would be a folk etymology involving a false cognate. But still, isn't it likely that this is in the back of the speaker's mind when he uses "by Jove" to mean "by God"? --Damian Yerrick 23:38, 9 December 2005 (UTC)

If we have it in, we should make it very clear that it is in fact a folk etymology. --Jfruh 03:21, 10 December 2005 (UTC)

Says what sources? ::It's obviously a euphemism for "by Jehovah", replacing the name of "the real God" with what Christians consider a fictional character from ancient mythology. That the name is short for Jupiter is kind of irrelevant, but I imagine that the "Jove" link would probably go to Jupiter. — SMcCandlish [talk] [cont] ‹(-¿-)› 08:42, 23 September 2009 (UTC)

That's funny, TheJames, I react in a similar way to lots of articles I read on Wikipedia even though my knowledge is in fact far from limited- but I assume that whoever wrote the article must have had a point with what he put in it, and so I practically never ever modify a page, out of fear that I might look like an idiot because I missed something obvious. It's an interesting psychological reaction that we share with a lot of people, I think. / I'd put my name and stuff here if I knew how —Preceding unsigned comment added by 193.12.239.183 (talk) 08:42, 21 January 2009 (UTC)

Umm, actually, "Jove" is not short for "Jupiter"; rather, "Jupiter" is a partial contraction/elision of an extended form of "Jove": Latin "Iovis" (the original name; English equivalent = "Jove") was frequently extended to "Iovis pater" ("Jove the father," with "pater"/"father" being a stock epithet for "Iovis"/"Jove"), and this form became so common that it was popularly contracted/elided to "Iuppiter" or "Iupiter." 70.169.149.207 (talk) 19:47, 14 June 2012 (UTC)

Blimey!

So according to the article, 'Cor blimey' is 'God blind me' and 'Gorblimey' is 'God blame me'. Surely one of those is wrong, but which is it ladies and gentlemen? Mooky 05:39, 9 August 2005 (UTC)

It's the latter that is wrong. Blimey = 'Blind me' Xyster 13:45, 10 October 2005 (UTC)

A source has to be cited, and if they differ then both possibilities should be mentioned and sourced. I think the "blind me" version is about 10x more likely to be true, but that's just my opinion. — SMcCandlish [talk] [cont] ‹(-¿-)› 08:42, 23 September 2009 (UTC)

Son of a gun

It is not known if "son of a gun" actually originated from sailors' wives giving birth under cannons aboard ship. Look here.

Flaming Heck

Not sure I understand why this isn't simply a euphemism for 'Flaming Hell'; it would make a lot more sense. What's the source for this? Xyster 13:50, 10 October 2005 (UTC)

Organization of page

Resolved

 – Page is no longer a list.

This page got really boring for me because all the words are in alphabetical order. That means 5 words meaning "Jesus" in a row then two ordinary ones then more "Jesus" then etc. etc. I think they should be listed in headings: "Jesus" including "For Christs Sake" and so on then another main heading for "God" etc. Gohst 10:23, 15 December 2005 (UTC)

Longwinded New Zealand oath

In New Zealand, 'Christchurch, Dunedin, Invercargill and the Bluff' is a common minced oath. Really. They are all South Island towns.

Cite a source. — SMcCandlish [talk] [cont] ‹(-¿-)› 08:42, 23 September 2009 (UTC)

Hey Zeus = Jesus?

I would argue that it's not actually greeting the god Zeus, but, in fact, pronouncing Jesus in a different language (I know it's how you pronounce it in Spanish, and probably others). —Preceding unsigned comment added by StarkRG (talk • contribs) 13:44, 18 December 2005 (UTC)

Actually, that's not how "Jesus" is pronounced in Spanish. "Jesus" (spelled "Jesús" in Spanish) is pronounced "he-soos", with a pronounced 'h' and an open 'e' as in "hell". Capi 06:16, 21 November 2006 (UTC)

What about Latin pronounciation? It all hinges on how the e is a long a, and if the s is pronounced properly as s instead of z.--WPaulB 22:06, 20 February 2007 (UTC)

In Latin it's I-e-so-us.

'Smeg'

Isn't Red Dwarf's 'Smeg' short for smegma?

No. Not intentionally. It just happens to be shorter than smegma which is a COMPLETELY unrelated word. Gohst 11:33, 4 February 2006 (UTC)

Wrong: Smeg in Red Dwarf is used to mean Smegma, and in turn as an expletive. Saccerzd 18:08, 11 June 2006 (UTC)

I wouldnt be so sure. I think the producers may have just said that to be cagey. If you watch the 2nd Smeg Outs video with footage from a Red Dwarf convention, observe Craig Charles response when a kid asks him what smeg means. 172.214.128.160 17:14, 7 May 2006 (UTC)

It's a little difficult to call. It seems that the relationship was not originally intended. If a made up word happens to correspond to another real one by accident, should it be assumed that they are related? [poster did not sign comment]

Craig Charles, who plays Lister, also specifically stated that "smeg" is short for "smegma" on a US PBS fundraising telethon based around a Red Dwarf marathon broadcast, several years ago. The idea that it was initially unintentional is about as absurd as saying that "frak" was just picked at random and that its similarity to "fuck" is just a coincidence. Let's not be silly. — SMcCandlish [talk] [cont] ‹(-¿-)› 08:02, 23 September 2009 (UTC)

See "Smeg (vulgarism) - a fictional profanity used in the TV cult space sitcom Red Dwarf". So maybe deserves copying back to here? Martinevans123 (talk) 18:19, 2 January 2012 (UTC)

Ah, and here's silly me thinking all along it was subliminal advertising for Italian fridges....213.127.210.95 (talk) 14:59, 5 August 2015 (UTC)

Frag

Resolved

 – Irrelevant

But see http://www.answers.com/frag&r=67

frag (frăg) Slang.

n: A fragmentation grenade.

tr.v., fragged, frag·ging, frags: To wound or kill (a fellow soldier) by throwing a grenade or similar explosive at the victim: “He got fragged. Blown away” (Bobbie Ann Mason).

The fact that there may be a homophonic usage of "frag" isn't really relevant. Any slang dictionary will clearly indicate that "frag" and "fragging" are in fact used as replacements for "fuck" and "fucking", regardless of the differently-derived military (and now videogamer) term. — SMcCandlish [talk] [cont] ‹(-¿-)› 08:06, 23 September 2009 (UTC)

Oh my heck and Utah

As someone who moved to Utah after growing up in southern California I found "oh my heck" to be quite amusing. People here do say "oh my hell" when they're trying to sound more profane. They for the most part, however, aren't aware that it doesn't exist outside of Utah and that saying "oh my hell" is just as odd sounding to outsiders as "oh my heck." —Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.2.79.247 (talk • contribs) 18:09, March 31, 2006 (UTC)

Cite a source. — SMcCandlish [talk] [cont] ‹(-¿-)› 08:42, 23 September 2009 (UTC)

GM Chrysler?

"GM Chrysler." It should be self-explanatory just by saying it out loud. Just something I heard once.

Cite a source. — SMcCandlish [talk] [cont] ‹(-¿-)› 08:42, 23 September 2009 (UTC)

Fsck

I've seen (and sometimes used) "fsck" on geek message boards. Maybe it should be added. Oobyduby 20:57, 20 June 2006 (UTC)

that originally means "File System ChecK" right? --TiagoTiago (talk) 09:41, 9 July 2009 (UTC)

While, yes, fsck is a *n*x file system verification and repair utility, but that doesn't mean that "fsck" isn't used as a minced oath, or even that it derives from fsck the utility. I honestly suspect that it might well have, but without a source (the Jargon File would be a good place to check first) we can't really say for sure. If it's true, the derivation would obviously be something along the lines of "Argh! The hard drive's fsck'd again!". Regardless of the etymology, the fact that it is used as an online expletive in chat rooms is easily sourceable. — SMcCandlish [talk] [cont] ‹(-¿-)› 08:12, 23 September 2009 (UTC)

This list has gotten out of hand...

Resolved

 – Page is no longer a list.

... and I believe it's partly my fault for organizing it like this. It seems that the current formatting is viewed as an open invitation for people to add whatever silly variations of 'fuck' and 'shit' that they can come up with.

I see several problems with the list. Firstly, it is disproportionally long for its importance, and I can't see this amount of detail being useful to anyone. Perhaps more importantly, however, these non-words are unverifiable. They are mostly just words used in colloquial speech, without any written material to cite. In addition to allowing falsities and silliness, listing only minced oaths that the editors have heard opens the door wide open for a strong cultural systematic bias.

I'm not sure what the solution is. Perhaps it will just require a severe trimming? ~ Booya ^Bazooka 06:32, 4 July 2006 (UTC)

Agreed. "God bless America" for "God"? What is that? Oh my god bless america? A lot of these could be deleted-- we don't need every minced oath ever. IMFromKathlene 23:30, 15 July 2006 (UTC)

Many could be deleted, indeed. But which ones? ~ Booya ^Bazooka 00:07, 16 July 2006 (UTC)

I have removed the list from this article altogether and moved it to List of minced oaths. Which I hope will get deleted very soon. - ∅ (∅), 09:42, 25 July 2006 (UTC)

I moved the historical examples there too. - ∅ (∅), 09:35, 7 August 2006 (UTC)

Mincing the oath by completing a different phrase seems like it should have its own subheader. "GOD... bless America!" or "JESUS... loves me!"

Wooden swearing

I won't make the addition until I can pin down a couple of examples, but in the Little House on the Prairie books, the mother (Ma) uses the term "wooden swearing" to refer to minced oaths. I'll also think about whether it's there's an appropriate way or place – maybe in a section about social responses to minced oaths – to add an item about Maya Angelou's story about being punished as a child for saying "By the way," which her grandmother considered as an oath ("the Way" representing Jesus) but which could in that case be considered a minced oath by others. Hope that makes sense. Lawikitejana 06:02, 17 September 2006 (UTC)

"I wouldn't give an obscenity for such an obscenity obscenity"

I've recently read For Whom the Bell Tolls, and its characters often use profanity; however, all such words are replaced by the word “obscenity” regardless of their role in the sentence, e. g. “Go obscenity yourself”. Perhaps it should also be mentioned in the article? 82.195.149.147 08:58, 22 January 2007 (UTC)

In fiction

I think most of the "in fiction" references are actually neologisms rather than minced oaths. They should be removed. They are not indended to be a diminutive of a swear word, but rather a swear word in a different place and/or time. However, I think "frack" should be added, since it is used in the present time as a minced oath, even though it is a proper swear word in Battlestar. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Philvarner (talk • contribs)

I agree. Also, the section needs notable examples, not something from Farscape or Judge Dredd. Or even Dilbert. The section is well-referenced, but useless. - ∅ (∅), 21:42, 11 March 2007 (UTC)

Some of the science fiction examples are right on topic, in that they're being used as direct substitutes for English profanities (which in some cases they sound very much like). Other fictional profanities may be used purely for worldbuilding to illustrate language change, so we need to stick to cases where the use as a substitute has been admitted by the creators or commented on by others.

I do agree with heavily pruning the section, but think you threw out a baby or two with the bathwater: "frak", as one of the few fictional profanities to verifiably escape the context of the original fiction, is if anything more significant than a Gore Vidal joke that didn't even appear in later editions of the same book. —Celithemis 23:34, 11 March 2007 (UTC)

Rewritten. Also, the "Minced oaths as humor" section isn't working. The first sentence makes the overbroad claim that minced oaths tend to become "humorously quaint" as they lose their power (when, actually, linguists note that euphemisms become more offensive over time, leading to the invention of new euphemisms). The rest is just random examples that have little in common with each other. Realistically, it's functioning as a place for people to dump examples of minced oaths that they think are funny, and I don't see a way to turn it into an encyclopedic discussion. —Celithemis 00:22, 12 March 2007 (UTC)

Frack

A good addition to Minced oaths in fiction section would be Frack from the Battlestar Galactica serie. Frack has its own page on Wikipedia but maybe it should be merged with Minced Oath. LaP 14:48, 9 April 2008 (UTC)

New section for fictional examples?

I think there should be in a new (short) section on fictional (or fiction-originating, as some do become adopted outside of fiction) minced oaths, including smeg, frak, d'oh, pudu, zarking fardwarks, etc. They are interesting enough and well sourceable enough for inclusion, as long as it doesn't turn into a huge fankwanking exercise. Celithemis, above, may have a point about only using ones that are close to real-world obscenities, such as frak and smeg. Anyway, I don't think that the entire set of that material should just disappear; some of it is actually directly relevant to the article, and frak in particular has entered regular English usage. — SMcCandlish [talk] [cont] ‹(-¿-)› 08:02, 23 September 2009 (UTC)

Can someone debunk this?

http://www.businessweek.com/magazine/content/03_08/b3821119.htm Geyser is the other word according to this article that has migrated into English from Iceland. Mt. Hekla, a volcano was seen to be a gateway to hell by European tourists (at least if my memory preserves - I'm not quoting directly from the article so anything I write is now secondhand.)

==

David Levine 03:04, 24 August 2007 (UTC)

Douglas Adams disagreed...

On the whole the discussion is fair enough, though the examples given are fairly narrow in scope and I would argue with some of them being minced oaths at all. But I have to take issue with the glossary of Douglas Adams' terms from Hitch-hiker. These are given precisely and authoritatively but with no justification whatsoever, and unless they can be backed up they should be removed.

I interviewed Douglas Adams on two occasions for the BBC. The first time was a year or so after the original radio series, on his tour to publicise the first book (I still have the copy he signed for me then). One of the subjects that came up was the language, specifically including "zarking fardwarks" but not, of course, "Belgium" which came later. Douglas had already explained how the apparent cascade of ideas in both media was actually the result of him writing extremely slowly - later, as many will know, his inability to write to a deadline became legendary. He told me "zarking fardwarks" had no relation to anything real, it just "sounded rude". The same, he said, was true of many of his words, they just sounded right and didn'tmean anything. This section of the interview was not, in the end, broadcast and I no longer have the original tape, but since I was a huge fan I remember the occasion very clearly.

On the second occasion the words came up again and this time he himself brought up "Belgium". He said it was simply the word that popped into his head when he needed it, and he liked it because Belgium had such a reputation (in the UK at least) as a boring country. He also claimed it was a very good word purely as an expletive for letting off steam; rather like "Gordon Bennett". But there was absolutely no suggestion that it represented a particular English swear word, be it "fuck" or anything else.

You can take these interpretations too far - look at Lewis Carroll - and it is all great fun, but it should not be put forward as fact. As far as I can see somebody just made up this bit.

Chris Jones Former BBC Radio Presenter skygod_wandering@hotmail.com

86.29.135.173 13:46, 8 July 2007 (UTC)

Talking of Belgium and its supposedly boring image in the UK: for what it's worth - probably, to quote Adams's masterpiece, 'not worth a fetid pair of dingo's kidneys' - I remember an instalment of 'Have I got news for you' (unless it was 'That was the week that was', but that was surely way too early) in which viewers had supposedly been asked to propose insulting names for Belgians (Belgium supposedly being so uninteresting that no-one had yet even bothered). The results included such gems as 'the Sprouts', but the adjudicators concluded that by far the most withering insult was quite simply 'the Belgians'....213.127.210.95 (talk) 14:51, 5 August 2015 (UTC)

Jeez

I think there should be a mention on jeez somewhere in the article. (probably a oath of the Christian lord, since it looks alike), so people don't go "Why the hell was I redirected here?"

This is huge article, and there shouldn't be a problem in mentioning that jeez is a oath of Jesus. TheBlazikenMaster 00:50, 19 July 2007 (UTC)

D'oh!

I would suggest that Homer Simpson's "d'oh!" is intended to mean that he begins to say "damn!", realises that there could be children present, and censors himself half way through because he wants to be a good parent. The fact that he cannot even allow himself to vent his frustration with a swear word adds to the irony. The adults in the audience hear the beginning of "damn", but the young kids probably would not, so it sails past the network censors. In popular use, it's been adopted as a Minced Oath, but I'm not exactly sure you could say that Homer Simpson uses it as such in the "context of the original fiction".

I also would suggest also that "Jeez" is a similar application of belated self-censorship, especially with the addition of another name, as in "Jeez Louise", in a feeble attempt to disguise what was going to be said.

"Jesus Murphy" - would that not be a mid-phrase modification of "Jesus, Mary, and Joseph"?

While we're at it, my wife occasionally says "God Bless America!" when she's mildly vexed, which she got from her grandmother. I'm thinking it's a mid-phrase modification of "God damn it!"

As far as words like "frak" (or is it "frack"?) or "frell" go, I agree that they're a bit different from some of the other examples listed here in that within the context of the character's POV, these are the actual offensive versions of swear words, and not substitutes, and therefore it makes them fictional neologisms. However, since they have "escaped the context of the original fiction", I think that they have become certified Minced Oaths. Planish 22:11, 18 August 2007 (UTC)

• I agree that "D'oh" is less rude version of "Damn it", I have thought of that for a long time. TheBlazikenMaster 22:23, 22 August 2007 (UTC)

• I don't think that d'oh! is self-censorship, I don't think that Homer Simpson has the mental capacity to self-censor every time. It's more just a generalized expression of frustration. With something like "Jeez", it's sometimes self-censorship, and sometimes not. If you're thinking of saying Jesus and say Jeez instead, it's self-censorship. If you just say Jeez as an expression of frustration without giving any thought to the idea that Jeez began as a minced oath, then it is not self-censorship.--RLent (talk) 16:14, 30 April 2008 (UTC)

Jesus Aitch Christ

The article is fine as it is but there oughta be a list of minced oaths... I nominate Jesus H. Christ for inclusion. Binksternet 22:43, 22 August 2007 (UTC)

Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/List of minced oaths - ∅ (∅), 05:26, 2 November 2007 (UTC)

"Freaking"

Removed this sentence as still lacking a source, and seeming (to me) to be original research- "Freaking" (and variants) is widely mistaken for, and used as, a minced form of "fucking", but is, in fact, a distinct obscenity referring to masturbation or mutual masturbation.

Clbuttic mistake

Another problem of word censors that don't check for space or context is the clbuttic mistake (and similar): http://thedailywtf.com/Articles/The-Clbuttic-Mistake-.aspx 128.232.228.174 (talk) 20:39, 15 April 2008 (UTC). Worthy of inclusion in main article.

Dog's Bollocks

I've removed the claim " dog's bollocks for God's bollocks from popular use, ", because it looks like quite a subtle form of vandalism. I've head an alternate etymology for the term, (from 'Box Delux', in contrast to 'Box standard', which became 'Bog Standard') - in fact I think it might have features on Balderdash and Piffle and I don't think people at the time of these oaths would be thinking about God having genitalia. --Neil (talk) 22:08, 13 May 2008 (UTC)

Suffering Succotash

I did a search on suffering succotash and it redirected me to this page. I dont know what it is but I would be interested in knowing what it replaces. 203.134.124.36 (talk) 02:29, 2 June 2008 (UTC)

It's something old Warner Bros. cartoon characters used to say. I doubt it's a replacement for anything, but just intended to sound faintly naughty. Even George Carlin commented that "succotash" is the dirtiest-sounding food name. The only vaguely plausible replaced item I can think of is "suffering Jesus". — SMcCandlish [talk] [cont] ‹(-¿-)› 08:42, 23 September 2009 (UTC)

Cptn Haddock

"Probably the most interesting and colorful minced oath coining-character in the French-speaking world was created by Hergé in the Tintin series. The character of Captain Haddock was a stereotypical sailor, which included alcoholism and swearing but Hergé wrote mainly for children, so he couldn't include actual swearing in the dialogues. Ingeniously, he wrote highly sophisticated insults that few people knew the meaning of. Since then, blistering barnacles! (mille sabords!) and thundering typhoons (tonnerre de brest!) and many more colorful as well as inventive words (they made a dictionary out of them!) became Archibald Haddock's trademark."

Apart from needed a cite for the "most interesting" part, are these even minced oaths? They are direct translations for a start, so are certainly not minced from English swear words. Are they in french? I really don't think so. They seem to just be examples of a character making up words to express emotion - this is not the definition of minced oath. I make up insults all time (mmmm, Pokemong), but they are not minced oaths.Yobmod (talk) 11:32, 25 July 2008 (UTC)

In the French editions, various characters exclaim "Sapristi!" in troublesome situations, which (I guess, because I am not fluent in French) falls in the same category as Haddock's more colourful exclamations. 87.96.182.138 (talk) 09:12, 23 October 2009 (UTC)

Jeewizz

Anyone know about the origins of this one? If it is a minced oath at all that is. ArdClose (talk) 01:03, 4 November 2008 (UTC)

Gee whiz fits the Elizabethan tradition of "Jesus' wisdom".

--UnicornTapestry (talk) 22:11, 27 June 2009 (UTC)

Flaming bloody what?

I question part (not all) of the reference to Robert Jordan's Wheel of Time series. The use of 'flaming' is quite old and is listed in the OED. Likewise, the term 'bloody' is very old as well. However, the term 'light' would be a reference. --UnicornTapestry (talk) 22:29, 10 January 2009 (UTC)

Examples?

Help! I needed to reference an example and was astonished to find the examples censored… er, removed.

What was the rationale? Can we get the examples back? Is it more appropriate to give them their own page?

It appears on 7 May User:Mintrick deleted the examples as a "silly list" without discussion that I can see, kind of ironic to remove examples of the subject under discussion. I confess I don't know what kind of shape the list had gotten into, but I found it had value. Does anyone mind if the examples are restored?

--UnicornTapestry (talk) 11:27, 27 June 2009 (UTC)

Never mind– it's a separate article. --UnicornTapestry (talk) 00:17, 28 June 2009 (UTC)

Frig

I've removed the section that claims Frig is a minced oath, since it is an actual expletive, referencing female masturbation and derives from the Norse goddess, Frigga.90.194.250.159 (talk) 22:07, 28 August 2009 (UTC)

I doubt the people who say "not friggin' likely" are thinking about Norse goddesses. I'm restoring. You'll need to find some references to back up the claim that a) "frig" is a real oath, not a minced one, and b) that users of "frig" are referencing Frigga intentionally. Good luck! Binksternet (talk) 22:27, 28 August 2009 (UTC)

Yeah, that's probably a load of bollocks. Especially the idea that it derives from a Norse goddess. It's use as a replacement for "fucking" can be found as early as the late 1970s, in the Sex Pistol's song "Friggin' in the Riggin'", which was definitely not a reference to female masturbation, but to M-F intercouse. — SMcCandlish [talk] [cont] ‹(-¿-)› 08:42, 23 September 2009 (UTC)

Frig IS an actual expletive (not minced) found in the dictionary. Here is the entry from the OED electronic edition:

frig 1 |frig| vulgar slang verb ( frigged , frigging ) [ trans. ] used as a euphemism for ‘fuck.’ • masturbate. exclamation expressing extreme anger, annoyance, or contempt.

— OED 2009

--UnicornTapestry (talk) 22:23, 23 September 2009 (UTC)

Rather than disqualifying 'frig', the OED entry confirms that it is a minced oath. Binksternet (talk) 23:28, 23 September 2009 (UTC)

Umm, I wonder if we're stretching the point, but okay. BTW, according to the OED, the original meaning was wriggle, then rub, chafe, into frottage and masturbation. --UnicornTapestry (talk) 02:53, 24 September 2009 (UTC)

Shizzit, etc.

There needs to be discussion of hip-hop culture's introduction of z-infixed minced oaths, such as "shizzit" and "fashizle". Sometimes the z is prefixed; I think the Spice Girls had a song where the singer says she wants to "zig", which seems to be a deeply altered version of "fuck", with a vowel shift and a shift from unvoiced /k/ to voiced /g/, in addition to the z usage. — SMcCandlish [talk] [cont] ‹(-¿-)› 07:50, 23 September 2009 (UTC)

To be honest I always thought the use of 'zig' on the Spice Girls song was just lyrical nonsense. But I think adding a section on things such as "shizzle" would be a good idea, they are certainly used as oaths by some people. Missrain4 (talk) 00:35, 9 December 2009 (UTC)

I think you'll find it was "zig-a-zig ah". But not sure about any voiced vowel shifts: [1]. Martinevans123 (talk) 15:50, 2 January 2012 (UTC)

Intentional/Humorous Mincing

I think a section should be added for the intentionally minced oaths, such as in Johnny Dangerously.

"You fargin sneaky bastage. I'm gonna take your dwork. I'm gonna nail it to the wall. I'm gonna crush your boils in a meat grinder. I'm gonna cut off your arms. I'm gonna shove 'em up your icehole. Dirty son-a-ma-batches. My own club!" ('Johnny Dangerously', http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0087507/quotes)

Pardon me for the poor syntax, I'm a new user. Feel free to edit this if it bothers you. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Sobeita (talk • contribs) 17:17, 29 March 2010 (UTC)

Where is the list?

I see there used to be a list here but it was changed. It would be nice to have a link to a list of minced oaths on a separate page here. 76.181.65.127 (talk) 05:01, 18 May 2010 (UTC)

Added shucks

I noticed shucks was discussed here, but did not appear in the article. I inserted it in the first paragraph next to shoot. Jahrhead (talk) 16:43, 21 July 2010 (UTC)

Sacre Bleu

Probably everyone's heard "sacre bleu" before. It's pretty famous for a French phrase (about the same fame as "deja vu" or "voila"). Therefore, I think that it should be added to this page. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sacrebleu#Origin —Preceding unsigned comment added by Occamsrazorwit (talk • contribs) 03:21, 21 September 2010 (UTC)

redirect =

not all the words that redirect are mentioned here. such as blimey. 184.78.19.27 (talk) 16:30, 22 April 2011 (UTC)

"Minced Oath"???

I'd never heard the term "minced oath" before this WP page. This sounds like someone's pet terminology, and I'd like to know what sources support it. The term is not even logical; most of the examples are not "oaths" in that sense. I much prefer the term pseudo-profanity. I'd formally propose to change the title if I knew how. 69.143.186.46 (talk) 07:55, 29 April 2011 (UTC)

Ah, the old "I haven't heard of this so it must be wrong" argument - quite compelling. - DavidWBrooks (talk) 12:25, 29 April 2011 (UTC)

The temptation is to simply tell the person, "just Google it." But I'll offer a citation, available in print: "When you mince something for a recipe, you cut it into very small pieces. When you 'mince an oath,' you take a word or phrase that's exceptionable and make it acceptable for general audiences. Thus, 'minced oath' is the term etymologists have given to expletives that have been rendered toothless." from The Unexpected Evolution of Language:Discover the Surprising Etymology of Everyday Words, Justin Cord Hayes (2010). Robert The Rebuilder (talk) 13:41, 20 February 2013 (UTC)

God and JESUS CHRIST!

I noticed that on this page, the minced oaths here are used for profanity. However, there are minced oaths for God, Jesus and Christ. I don't understand. They are not profanity, so why should we have minced oaths for them? I never get in trouble for saying Oh my God!, Jesus Christ! or anything like that. However, people will get in trouble for saying f--k, or b---h, or ni--er. Also, since when is God's bloods, or God's wounds, or by God's foot or by the gods profanity? VegetaSaiyan (talk) 22:26, 30 August 2011 (UTC)VegetaSaiyan

I added the phrase "taboo words" to the introductory sentence to cover this situation. There are certainl;y many times where the use of a deity's name in a non-theological sense will draw criticism, which is why variations have been developed for them. "Oh, my God!" is frowned on by some, even if you personally have never gotten in trouble for it.

I wonder if there are similar alternatives to Mohammed's name in Arabic? - DavidWBrooks (talk) 22:32, 30 August 2011 (UTC)

Okay. But what happens when you say "Praying to God"? Should you say "Praying to goodness"? And if you say "The death of Jesus Christ", does it become "The death of Jeez Crikey?" I understand about saying "Oh my God", but what about "God's wounds", or "God's bloods" or "by the gods"? VegetaSaiyan (talk) 00:20, 1 September 2011 (UTC)VegetaSaiyan

Not sure I follow you - the article doesn't say that minced oaths are always used, just sometimes in some circumstances. - DavidWBrooks (talk) 18:18, 8 September 2011 (UTC)

Profanity technically means using sacred words in a profane way. That is why using Jesus or Christ outside a sacred context is profanity. The definition has also been expanded to include words that are merely rude or obscene or politically incorrect. Actual profanity has become more socially acceptable than some of those words.Erikmartin (talk) 02:37, 15 August 2015 (UTC)

Minced oath

(I've moved this here comment from my Talk page, to others can respond) Regarding your reversal of my edit, and trying to avoid an editing war, I'd like to contest your opinion or solicit a third party to arbitrate or, at least, opine. Yes, "frig" is a euphemism for the "F word", but it is a profane word in its own right, so, i suppose, it could be reckoned either way, but considering the excessively long list of minced oaths given for the word in question, I don't see any reason to include a word that *could* be interpreted as a minced oath, especially since, IMHO, lumping it in parallel with things that are either not words at all are are unrelated words, simply obfuscates the fact that "to frig" is a word in its own right. Vincent J. Lipsio (talk) 18:39, 14 February 2012 (UTC)

This concerns whether "friggin" should be in the list of minced oaths for "fuck". I say yes, since it's the minced oath that I personally use, but Mr. Lipsio is worried because "frig" is a real word (which I didn't realize). It's pretty easy to find "friggin" as a minced oath online - even in wikipedia (Good Ship Venus) - so it seems like it should be included if anything is. - DavidWBrooks (talk) 19:30, 14 February 2012 (UTC)

Flikken Maastricht

No mention of the endearingly polite fiddlesticks, not or the Boris Johnson-esque lorcs!, not even, regrettably of my giddy aunt. But are/were these minced oaths? Perhaps Charley's Aunt could tell us? Modern UK chronology also sadly lacking - one imagines that the Victorian or Edwardian eras must have produced quite a crop that stayed in fashion until at least the 1950s? And what about "like billy-o"? Is that a mknvced oath? From where or what does it derive? Martinevans123 (talk) 21:40, 23 February 2012 (UTC)

We can't list every minced oath ever used, so there has to be some reason for any example; that it illustrates a partciular usage or formation not shown elsewhere, for example. (Some of the current examples may not be all that great.)

In terms of the wonderful word "fiddlesticks", for example, is it really a minced oath -- a bowdlerized version of a bad word -- or is it a made-up word mild enough for public use? Minced coaths shouldn't be just words used instead of swear words, but variants of actual swear words used instead of swear words. - DavidWBrooks (talk) 19:15, 5 April 2012 (UTC)

That seems fair. The worse thing about Fiddelsticks is that it begins with f. But it seems to be from an age before swearing was commonly used. I was trying to see some evidence of a chronolgical pattern. Maybe that's a wild goose chase. I had thought My Giddy Aunt was a substitute for My God. And Lorcs for Lord. We have both profanites and blasphemies to consider, yes? Martinevans123 (talk) 19:36, 5 April 2012 (UTC)

Fugging

I typed in Fugging, looking for the Austrian village. why does this page come up? — Preceding unsigned comment added by Schach0 (talk • contribs) 14:36, 29 April 2012 (UTC)

   Just being naive isn't much of a reason for being ignored, and being strict about what's off-topic is pretty silly, on a WP talk page.
   Wikt lacks that sense of fug, but

• we now have Fug as a Dab,
• Norman Mailer put it into print in the late 40's in his war novel The Naked and the Dead, and
• The Village Fugs, aka The Fugs, exploited it, to provoke, starting 1963.

   But Fugging now is an article on the town. I'm opening a discussion on its talk page about whether the minced oath is really too lexicographic for a {{see also}} link to Minced oath -- and perhaps thus so lexicographic that wikt needs to cover it.
--Jerzy•t 04:38, 30 April 2015 (UTC)

Children's shows and Minced Oaths

Some profanities have minced oath variants that have even been used on kid's shows! "Freak-out", "shoot", and "flippin", for example. This is important, as society says that children shouldn't listen to or say the more violent versions of these.

Another note is that some Kids shows have their own minced oaths, Spongebob in particular. SpongeBob has a wide variety of different words used instead of "land" profanity. They include:

- Oh, barnacles - Oh, tartar sauce - Neptune! (the god of the sea) - Selling like Krabby Patties (Used by Mr. Krabs several times in place of "selling like crack", Krabby patties are burgers served at the Krusty Krab).

Also, did you know that "pee" is a deformation of the word "piss"? Piss started out as an onomotopoeic term (understandable), around the 14th century, but then became vulgar. Look up Urine on Wikipedia. however, there isn't a reference. Ticklewickleukulele (talk) 02:23, 30 August 2012 (UTC)

Examples

I have moved the long, ever-growing but entirely unsourced list of examples down to the bottom of the article, where it won't get in the way of people seeing real information about history and cultural examples - and also where it's less likely to attract drive-by editors who slap in whatever example springs to mind. - DavidWBrooks (talk) 15:29, 19 September 2012 (UTC)

Dickens Reference?

Why is the "Reprinted Pieces by Charles Dickens" listed as a reference? Unlike the other items in that section, there are no references to it. I recommend its removal. Robert The Rebuilder (talk) 20:22, 11 February 2013 (UTC)

let's kill the endless list of examples

I suggest we kill the endlessly growing, and virtually reference-free, list of examples - leaving on a couple representative examples in the text of the story. What say others? - DavidWBrooks (talk) 15:19, 15 July 2013 (UTC)

i agree, that section is just a hotbed for non-constructive additions, and i think it distracts editors from the rest of the article, which is actually in need of some attention. a few examples in prose should be enough to illustrate the point. ~ Boomur [talk] 15:29, 15 July 2013 (UTC)

One more time - I suggest we kill the list of examples. Any objections? - DavidWBrooks (talk) 01:09, 4 September 2013 (UTC)

Agree with all of the above. WP:OR, WP:MADEUP, the implied Wikipedia:Wikipedia is not Urban Dictionary, and others seem to make the list problematic. Might be a good candidate to move to someone's user page. --Rhododendrites (talk) 02:28, 4 September 2013 (UTC)

OK - I removed it, and attach it below, since there might be useful stuff to pull out - DavidWBrooks (talk) 16:20, 4 September 2013 (UTC)

Well done David! Much better now.
— | Gareth Griffith-Jones | The Welsh Buzzard | — 19:05, 4 September 2013 (UTC)

Minced oath examples removed from article, 9/4/2013

Examples in English include but are not limited to: Original term Minced oath Notes God goodness, gosh, golly, gad, gor Jesus gee, geez, geesh, jiminy, sheesh, jingo, Jason, Jaysus, Jeebus Christ crickets, crikey, cripes, Crisp Jesus Christ (two words) Jiminy Cricket or Jiminy Christmas, Judas Priest, Jeepers Creepers, Cheese and Rice, Geez Louise, Jeezum Crow, Jason Crisp Hell Heck, H-E-double-toothpicks, H-E-double-hockey-sticks asshole a-hole, a-hat damn darn, dang, dern, drat dipshit dipstick As heard on the TV show "The Dukes of Hazzard" goddamn doggone, dadgum, goodnessdarn, gorram, goshdarn, goshdang, goshdern, gotdang, consarn, dognad "Gorram" entered popular usage after the debut of the Joss Whedon TV series Firefly (TV series). damnation tarnation, dangnation God blame me, God blind me blimey what the Hell what the heck, what in Sam Hill, what the hey, what in the world bastard bar steward fucking flipping, freaking, fricking, frigging, fudging, effing, fracking, frakking, frilling, fecking "Fecking" is widely used in Ireland, but it has a different etymology and is not simply a minced version of "fucking". "Fracking" or "frakking" (alt spelling) has come into more common use since the Ron Moore reboot of the Battlestar Galactica (TV series) franchise, though the term is native to the original incarnation.. motherfucker mother-father, Morgan Freeman, melon-farmer, monkey-fighter, mussel-shucker, muzzafuzza, fuhther-mucker, mothertrucker, mothersucker motherlover, mofo, mother effer, motherfecker The term 'melon-farmer' was frequently used in movies in the 1980s and 1990s to replace 'motherfucker', thereby making the movie suitable for younger audiences. For similar reasons, FX's TV edit of Snakes on a Plane employed the noun-noun compound "monkey-fight" in its infinitive form as an attributive verb. shit shoot, sugar, shucks, ish, shite, schnap bullshit bologna, bulwark, bull, BS, bullcrap nuts nerts, bananas bitch beach, beyotch, witch son of a bitch son of a gun, son of a pup, son of a biscuit, son of a preacher man, Many different etymologies have been proposed for "son of a gun," which may have an independent origin from "son of a bitch." Christ's money criminy, crimony The thirty pieces of silver in exchange for which Judas betrayed Jesus. pissed off ticked off, brassed off, cheesed off prig, prude, bitch, or sissy prissy Examples in other languages: Original term Minced oath Notes sacre Dieu sacrebleu A French minced oath Carlos Menem Carlos Méndez A modern Argentinian use of minced oath: ex-president Menem had a fame of bringing bad luck (especially in sports), to the point that many in his country avoided pronouncing his surname and replaced it with the euphemistic Méndez. mierda Miércoles Panamanian; the speaker catches him/herself and utters "Wednesday" instead of "shit" Other religious examples suffering succotash, of Loony Tunes fame, instead of Suffering Saviour. God's will and God's peace (see, e.g., the St. Crispin's Day Speech in Shakespeare's Henry V) blimey, short for "[God] blind me." criminy or crimony, an alteration of Christ's money, the thirty pieces of silver in exchange for which Judas betrayed Jesus gadzooks, originally a dialectal pronunciation of God's hooks, the nails with which Jesus was affixed to the cross zounds, a contraction of God's wounds, the injuries that Jesus suffered while being crucified substitute invocations of nominally divine beings (e.g., pagan deities) presumed to be nonexistent by the speaker and his/her audience: egads or egad, itself an alteration of ye gods intended to placate those who consider ye gods blasphemous in that its literal meaning constitutes an appeal to non-Abrahamic deities and thereby violates stricter interpretations of the First Commandment in Judeo-Christian tradition ye gods (marked as a reference to non-Christian deities by the plural form indicating polytheism) "oh, my goddess" as in the Judeo-Christian tradition, the term is not used by Jove, jumping Jupiter, etc.

Origin of "bloody"

The purported "by Our Lady" origin of bloody is commonly quoted but debatable, which the reference to it in the article doesn't make sufficiently clear. — 146.179.8.134 (talk) 12:48, 30 May 2014 (UTC)

i've removed that example from the "history" section, as there were plenty of others that are less controversial. i left the reference to "by our lady" in the "formation" section for now as it's noted there as uncertain; however, that reference might not be necessary either, and i wouldn't really object to it being removed as well. ~ Boomur [☎] 16:51, 1 June 2014 (UTC)