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|This is the talk page for discussing improvements to the Mohamed ElBaradei article.|
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- 1 Name Stylization
- 2 Presidential election ambition
- 3 Italicizing the “the” in the names of newspapers
- 4 More nitpicking issues: the “the” and the wikilinks
- 5 Degree
- 6 Muslim brotherhood
- 7 Gorge Soros and International Crisis Group
- 8 File:Elbaradei.png Nominated for Deletion
- 9 Prime Minister
- 10 surname : El Baradei, ElBaradei, el-Baradei
- 11 Prime Minister?
The opening paragraph says "An Egyptian, ElBaradei prefers the Latin writing of his name to be spelled ElBaradei rather than hyphenated (El-Baradei)." The phrasing there suggests that not hyphenating his name is his preference is because he is Egyptian. I just don't know anything about how Egyptians sylize their names. If this is a common Egyptian practice, then I think the sentence works as is. If the linkage between stylization and being Egyptian is not appropriate, then I think we need a wording change. Jordanp (talk) 07:24, 23 November 2009 (UTC)
- I second this, as I came to this discussion page for the same question... -- megA (talk) 16:53, 26 November 2009 (UTC)
The article says that his name in Arabic is Muḥammad al-Barādaʿī. What's the source for this? al-Barādiʿī with an "i" after the "d", makes more sense both in terms of Arabic grammar and the representation of his name in English. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 22.214.171.124 (talk) 02:10, 1 March 2010 (UTC)
Right now, the IPA is added and you would notice that how his name is actually pronounced [mæˈħæmːæd mosˈtˤɑfɑ (ʔe)lbæˈɾædʕi] is different from how it is transliterated. --Mahmudmasri (talk) 23:34, 9 February 2011 (UTC)
Presidential election ambition
Italicizing the “the” in the names of newspapers
Recently I changed the text to conform to the Chicago Manual of Style recommendation (see here) that one should use lowercase and no italics for “the” in a newspaper title, even if it is part of the official title, while at the same time one should italicize the articles of non-English names of newspapers. So it would be “the New York Times” and “the Washington Post”, but “Le Monde.”
I realize this is a bit nitpicking, but I'm bringing it up because within a couple of hours from my changes, someone reverted one of them back to italicizing the “the” in one of the mentions of the New York Times.
I did look for Wikipedia-specific guidelines on this issue, but couldn't find them. On the other hand, it is a general guideline of Wikipedia that within an article one should be consistent with style (see here), so that either all the “the”s should be italicized, or none.
On the other hand, it is not a general guideline of Wikipedia that styles of different articles should match; see here. (This makes sense, since the editors of each article should be able to choose the style best suited to their particular topic.) For what it's worth, the Wikipedia article on the New York Times is not internally consistent itself on the issue of italicizing the “the”, so that sometimes it uses “the Times” and sometimes “the Times.”
- My main purpose was to replace the non-standard wiki-link [[The_New_York_Times]] with the standard [[The New York Times]]. A recent editor inserted many links in the non-standard format and I was starting to fix it, but gave up after the first one. Perhaps someone can take up where I left off.
- I don't particularly care if "The" is italicized, but it is part of the official name of the paper. 01:59, 1 February 2011 (UTC)
O.K., I see—the point was to remove the underscores in the wikilink, as per the recommendation given here (subsection “Link to another Wiki article”). I am indeed the guilty party for putting the underscores, and so I will fix it.
As far as italicizing the “the.” Yes, it is part of the official name of the newspaper, but the Chicago Manual of Style says that it nevertheless should not be capitalized (CMOS 16th edition, 8.168); see here for their reasoning.
Of course, we are not obliged to follow the CMOS on this issue, or on any other issue; we are only obliged to be internally consistent. But it is a widely-used style, and they put a lot of thought into their recommendations. So, absent objections from you or others, I'll try to make the article compliant with it whenever possible. Reuqr (talk) 15:49, 1 February 2011 (UTC)
Still using “the New York Times” as an example, and at the risk of sounding over-the-board nitpicking: in addition to the issue of whether the “the” should be italicized, which I've discussed in the section “Italicizing the “the” in the names of newspapers” above, there is also the issue of whether the “the” should be included in any wikilinks. In other words, should it be “the New York Times,” or “the New York Times”?
I think that if the “the” is not italicized, then it should not be included in the wikilink. On the other hand, if we should decide that the “the” which is part of the official name of the newspaper should be italicized after all, then that “the” should also be included in the wikilink.
The article indicates that ElBaradei earned a PhD from the NYU School of Law. Can someone verify this? I'm not aware of any US law school that grants a PhD; normally, the highest advanced degree awarded by such an institution is the JSD/SJD. NYU law school currently grants a JSD. Is it possible that ElBaradei either (a) earned a PhD from the NYU graduate school or (b) earned a JSD from the law school? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 126.96.36.199 (talk) 02:28, 1 February 2011 (UTC)
- I don't know how things stood in ElBaradei's time, but currently the NYU School of Law offers a J.D.-Ph.D. dual degree with The law and society program; see here, which links here. Reuqr (talk) 18:06, 1 February 2011 (UTC)
- Update: His degree is indeed J.S.D. I have two strong sources for this:
- 1. the entry for his thesis in the NYU library catalog; see here. The thesis is cataloged as “Thesis (S.J.D.)--New York University, 1974.”
- 2. The index to vol. 60 of New York University Law Review (60 N.Y.U. L. Rev. i 1985). His name is listed under “Adjunct Associate Professors” as “Mohamed M. El Baradei, LL.B., LL.M., J.S.D.” The access to New York University Law Review is not public, but google does find his entry: just google "Mohamed M. El Baradei, LL.B., LL.M., J.S.D.", like so.
So his degree is Doctor of Juridical Science, a research doctorate in law, which, of course, makes it the law equivalent of a Ph.D. The biographies at the IAEA and at the Nobel prize site both include the (word-for-word) same sentence, “He gained a Bachelor´s degree in Law in 1962 at the University of Cairo, and a Doctorate in International Law at the New York University School of Law in 1974,” which is correct, since J.S.D. is indeed a doctorate. Someone has already modified the article so that it says J.S.D. rather than Ph.D., though without giving a source, which I guess I can add now. Reuqr (talk) 12:22, 2 February 2011 (UTC)
Someone should update the article regarding his recent endorsement by the Muslim brotherhood. The article currently indicates they are still feuding — Preceding unsigned comment added by TMV943 (talk • contribs) 05:31, 2 February 2011 (UTC)
- He did not endorse the Brotherhood, but accepted it as a part of Egypt's political landscape. 05:34, 2 February 2011 (UTC)
- Cs32en, the unsigned author above stated that El Baradei was endorsed BY the Muslim Brotherhood. This is vastly different than him giving an endorsement TO the Muslim Brotherhood. I think the unsigned author's point is especially valid... According to an article published 01 Feb 2011 in Foreign Affairs Journal, "the Muslim Brotherhood poised to gain influence in Egypt" (Click HERE). --Lacarids (talk) 04:56, 3 February 2011 (UTC)
Arabic/Foreign language sources
Naturally I'm in favor of more documentation as opposed to less, but could we get an english-language source concerning ElBaradei's presidential prospects? It strikes me as a very important/relevant aspect of the article, and for the only source backing it up (currentily no. 69; Masrawy.com) to be not in english strikes me as awkward given that the readership on en.wiki tends to be english speaking. Per WP:NOENG, non-english sources should at least be translated... Also, wouldn't confirmed news that ElBaradei is running for president appear in US/UK/other english-lanauage press? Related to this last point, I added a current events tag to sec 5.2, possible presidential candidacy RideABicycle (talk) 04:02, 7 April 2011 (UTC)
Gorge Soros and International Crisis Group
- There are rumors that he is member of a group that is paid by George Soros. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 188.8.131.52 (talk) 06:24, 21 June 2011 (UTC)
- Why is Soros' association with the International Crisis Group mentioned twice in the opening section? It doesn't seem directly relevant to an introduction to ElBaradei.J'onn J'onzz (talk) 01:32, 21 March 2011 (UTC)
- How is the info relevant? and why does need a section by itself? I have also been noticing the article have been vandalized a lot lately as well -- The Egyptian Liberal (talk) 00:18, 16 August 2011 (UTC)
File:Elbaradei.png Nominated for Deletion
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Don't panic; a discussion will now take place over on Commons about whether to remove the file. This gives you an opportunity to contest the deletion, although please review Commons guidelines before doing so.
- Egypt is just covered in fog-of-war right now. I'm seeing reports on Twitter from credible sources now that no decision has been made on naming ElBaradei as prime minister. It's El-Beheiry all over again. -Kudzu1 (talk) 21:28, 6 July 2013 (UTC)
surname : El Baradei, ElBaradei, el-Baradei
- Sorry, I was wrong. The famous politician himself writes his name ElBaradei ... let's do same. 184.108.40.206 (talk) 21:32, 6 July 2013 (UTC)
- Well, in fact the politician has been writing his surname ElBaradei for several years - but perhaps we should not do it. I think most international administrations will use two words, for him and every person of his family: El Baradei. 220.127.116.11 (talk) 06:58, 10 July 2013 (UTC)
- Two words would fit better, see Wikipedia: Turkish: El Baradey, Russian: эль-Барадеи, German: el-Baradei, French: El Baradei. So please give us the space (punctuation) ... 18.104.22.168 (talk) 07:06, 10 July 2013 (UTC)