Talk:Noad Lahat

I believe Noad Lahat's birth address should be "Alfei Menashe, West bank" not "Alfei Menashe, Israel" since Alfei Menashe is a settlement on the West Bank outside of what most define Israel's borders to be.

See f.e https://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/biography/Noad_Lahat.html: "Lahat was born on June 8, 1984 in Alfei Menashe, a settlement in the West Bank."

I believe that makes him the only professional mma fighter in the world born in the West Bank. ImTheIP (talk) —Preceding undated comment added 02:05, 8 February 2016 (UTC)

All mainstream media sources about Lahat says he was born in the Alfei Menashe in the West Bank: http://www.timesofisrael.com/mma-fighter-invokes-shoah-after-win/, https://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/biography/Noad_Lahat.html, http://www.jweekly.com/article/full/72445/israeli-ultimate-fighter-leaves-san-jose-for-gaza-operation/ ImTheIP (talk) 18:44, 8 February 2016 (UTC)

The infobox should present information neutrally. The status of Alfei Menashe is disputed. I believe that the best solution is to say neither "Israel" nor "West Bank" in the infobox, but rather simply Alfei Menashe. Cullen³²⁸ Let's discuss it 23:09, 8 February 2016 (UTC)

I don't understand how you can say that when I showed you so many links proving the contrary. :( It is not disputed that Alfei Menashe is a location in the West Bank. If that is disputed, then it must also be disputed that Hebron and Ramallah are in the West Bank. And it follows that it is disputed if Tel Aviv and Haifa are in Israel.

Also, while Israeli citizens live there, it is not claimed by any government body to be in Israel, since Israel has not made any official claims on this part of the West Bank. It is different from, for example, an address in East Jerusalem which the Palestinians claim is in the West Bank and which the Israelis claim is in Israel. ImTheIP (talk) 00:27, 9 February 2016 (UTC)

Look at the infoboxes for Hebron and Ramallah. Neither one uses "West Bank". I do not dispute the fact that reliable sources say that he was born in the West Bank. They do. But in my view, "West Bank" does not belong in the infobox. "West Bank" is not a nation, a state, a province, a county or any type of government entity. It is an informal geographic description. The body of the article is the proper place to mention that the settlement is in the West Bank, not the infobox. Cullen³²⁸ Let's discuss it 21:27, 9 February 2016 (UTC)

I see your point. But the West Bank is clearly defined and if you read the Wikipedia article about it you see that there is nothing informal about it. It is 100% determinable if a location is in the West Bank or outside of it. Furthermore please look at articles about Palestinians with infoboxes: Faris Odeh, Belly (rapper), Yasser Elshantaf, Ismail Haniyeh, Mitri Raheb, Ahmed Jabari, Marwan Barghouti, Khaled Mashal, Ahmad Sa'adat. In all cases where their location of birth is the West Bank or the Gaza Strip, their infoboxes says so. It is precedent and no one complains about it, why would anyone complain about Noad Lahat being from the West Bank? My view is that Wikipedia should tell people facts, that Noad Lahat grew up in a settlement in the West Bank is an interesting fact. ImTheIP (talk) 17:35, 10 February 2016 (UTC)

Also, Cullen, please see Baruch Goldstein, 2002 Hebron ambush, Sonol gas station bombing, Ariel University, Shechem. There is a long established precedent that "Location: Some City, West Bank" is correct. Please also see Talk:Ariel_University where this question has been discussed. I know you have about a billion edits to your name and I only have 20, but I think my opinion is the right one here. ImTheIP (talk) 19:38, 10 February 2016 (UTC)

If his actual birthplace is Petah Tikva, as discussed below, which is in Israel, then the issue is moot. Cullen³²⁸ Let's discuss it 00:56, 11 February 2016 (UTC)

Place of birth

This is the Israeli article that says Lahat was born in Petah Tikva- [1]. פ"ת: short cut of Petah Tikva in Hebrew; Hebrew speakers can verify. Nevertheless, most of the sources (including those which were brought up here, and the one from the UFC website say he is from Alfei Menashe because he grew up there. This is supported also by Israeli articles, like this one that notes that his first Judo class in the age of five was there. but no source says he was born in Alfei Menashe, just grew up there and lived there. His birth place according to the source is Petah Tikva. אדם מה (talk) 22:55, 10 February 2016 (UTC)

These sources say so: https://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/biography/Noad_Lahat.html, http://www.noadlahat.com/ But maybe they are citing Wikipedia? What if his family lived in Alfei Menashe, but there is probably no hospital there so the hospital his mother gave birth in was in Petah Tikva? ImTheIP (talk) 03:26, 11 February 2016 (UTC)

If he was born in a hospital in Petah Tikva, which is only a short drive from Alfei Menashe, then Petah Tikva is his place of birth. Both of my sons were born in San Francisco which has excellent hospitals, even though we lived in Fairfax, California at the time, which has no hospitals. My sons will have San Francisco birthplaces forever. Cullen³²⁸ Let's discuss it 04:36, 11 February 2016 (UTC)

Probably you right, I didn't think about this- that in Alfei Menashe there is no hospital, so he was born in an hospital in Petah Tikva. I'm not sure if this website- http://www.noadlahat.com/ is official or not. Anyhow, i think like Cullen328, that if he was born in Petah Tikva hospital, his birthplace should be Petah Tikva. I don't mind to mention that he grew up in Alfei Menashe, but in the template it's the birthplace, no where he grew up. אדם מה (talk) 09:44, 11 February 2016 (UTC)

Ok. I know someone who knows Noad Lahat so I'll forward the question to him. Since sources say different things what else can you do? Though shouldn't the template say where he is from/grew up instead of birth location? It's a more relevant fact imho. What is Wikipedia policy? ImTheIP (talk) 18:24, 12 February 2016 (UTC)

The infobox field is clearly for place of birth. His childhood can be discussed in the body of the article. There are biographical details in the j magazine article. Cullen³²⁸ Let's discuss it 19:07, 12 February 2016 (UTC)

I agree. I understand now more of Wikipedia and the most logical way is to list his birth location (Petah Tikva, Israel). ImTheIP (talk) 12:08, 9 June 2017 (UTC)