Talk:Operation Car Wash

Developments in Operation Car Wash

Just advertising the existence of a new draft stub as the kernel of a proposed future translation of pt:Desdobramentos da Operação Lava Jato. Please join the discussion at Draft talk:Developments in Operation Car Wash#Collaboration discussion on translation. Pinging @Elinruby, Bageense, and American In Brazil:. Thanks, Mathglot (talk) 22:40, 28 November 2019 (UTC)

Related articles on pt-wiki in need of translation

Not surprisingly, pt-wiki has a lot of articles that relate directly to the topic of Operation Car Wash, not to mention many biographies and other articles that touch on it in one way or another. Some of these have been recently translated (Offshoots of Operation Car Wash, Odebrecht–Car Wash leniency agreement, Brazilian Anti-Corruption Act, Caixa 2) or are in progress now (Draft:Operation Car Wash investigation phases). But there are many more on pt-wiki in need of translation.

There is a very useful tool at Wmflabs that can find all the articles present in Portuguese Wikipedia in a given category that are missing from en-wiki (or between any two Wikipedias). There are lots of ways to configure it, but here is one sample run, showing the first hundred articles in pt-wiki related to Operation Car Wash, that are not present in en-wiki. Mathglot (talk) 23:49, 1 February 2020 (UTC)

The "Phases" draft mentioned above is finally done, and can be found at Phases of Operation Car Wash. Your help improving it would be welcome! Mathglot (talk) 08:33, 26 August 2020 (UTC)

Status of Car Wash articles: where to from here?

I'd like to get feedback from interested editors about the current status of the Car Wash suite of articles, and where we should go from here. @Elinruby, Bageense, PauloMSimoes, American In Brazil, Vandergay, and Lindenfall:.

Besides Operation Car Wash which has been around for a while but is much improved lately (hat tip to Elinruby), this year has also seen the release of: Offshoots of Operation Car Wash, Phases of Operation Car Wash, and the navigation template {{Operation Car Wash}}. (The nav template is brand new and probably needs much work.)

"Offshoots" and "Phases" also have redirects, so that Operation Lost Treasure, for example, takes you straight into the "Offshoots" article at the right section. For phases that have names, same thing; for example: Operation My Way and Operation X-Files. The "Phase" redirects are also linked through Wikidata to the Portuguese articles, so if you go to pt:Operação My Way, or pt:Operação Arquivo X and click the 'English' link in the left sidebar, it will take you straight to the correct section of our "Phases" article. (This involves linking the redirect page to a foreign Wikipedia article, something I previously thought impossible. Only the "Phase" redirects currently do this.)

So now we have a "suite" of three related articles on Lava Jato, plus the Nav template. These seem like the "Big Four" articles for Car Wash on en-wiki. Note that we also have a bunch of what I'd call, "supporting" or "minor" articles in en-wiki, including: Odebrecht–Car Wash leniency agreement, Brazilian Anti-Corruption Act, Caixa 2, Condução coercitiva, and I may have forgotten some. Oh, and there's the new, Glossary, as well, to help make sense of terminology.

If you can find any other major article about Lava Jato that exists on pt-wiki that we don't have on en-wiki, could you please list them below and say why you think they should be translated? (There are dozens of minor articles at pt-wiki about this topic, but I don't know if it makes sense to try and import most of those for an English-speaking viewership.) You can use the Portuguese category pt:Categoria:Operação Lava Jato as a starting point. Thanks, Mathglot (talk) 22:45, 30 August 2020 (UTC)

Are you yelling me that we can do interlanguage redirects? Elinruby (talk) 01:50, 2 September 2020 (UTC)

Not interlanguage redirects, but interwikis (the language list in the left sidebar, that point to all the translations of the article in other Wikipedias. A lot of times, our article corresponds to only a redirect in some other language, or vice versa. In the case of Car Wash, they have way more articles than we do, and sometimes an entire article in pt is only a redirect to a section here (if we even have it at all). It used to be, you couldn't interwiki-link an article to a redirect, but you can. Mathglot (talk) 09:55, 15 September 2020 (UTC)

at one point I was tring to ensure that all of the major players (ie Cuñha, Lula, the various Odebrechts, the plea bargain law passed just before this, the Brazilian legal system, etc, etc.) I lost track of the various operations about three years in. Some of these I had never heard of. There is a lot there and it probably all needs review and updates. For example, if so and so was arrested, what happened to that charge? And who got turned in in return for the charge going away? It is also important to review all mentions of judges and prosecutors, since many of the English-speaking editors, myself initially included, did not realize that thus is a civil law juridiction (not common law) Elinruby (talk) 01:59, 2 September 2020 (UTC)

This thing has been ongoing for five years now and has taken so many twists and turns. I believe all the articles related to it should be consolidated into this one article for easier understanding. I realize that may make a very long article. Any thoughts from other editors? American In Brazil (talk) 13:22, 7 September 2020 (UTC)

Several of the child articles are already maxed out in size, and we are missing many that exist in Portuguese, so the number and size of articles will only increase. I can't imagine how merging child articles here would make it any easier. We should be going in the opposite direction. Mathglot (talk) 09:55, 15 September 2020 (UTC)

The way to make it easier to understand, is to follow WP:Summary style, keep the top level parent article (this one) relatively small, with frequent use of {{Main}} and {{Further}} to link to child articles with more detail about individual subtopics. Another way, is to take another look at the lead, and edit it for clarity and proper summary-level overview of the rest of the article. Remember that most people never read past the Lead, so all the important points should be there, in summary form. Mathglot (talk) 00:30, 3 January 2021 (UTC)

Should these sources be trusted?

On 19 Feb 2021, the Indian news website The Wire published an article ([1]) about "shocking levels of US involvement in Brazil’s Lava Jato corruption case". It alleged that the prosecutors and judge had illegally colluded with the US Department of Justice, saying 'Ex-judge Sergio Moro and head of the Lava Jato task force Deltan Dallagnol have been accused of “treason” for their illegal collusion with United States authorities ... In 2019 the US Department of Justice attempted to pay the Lava Jato task force a $682 million dollar kickback, ostensibly for them to set up a “private foundation to fight corruption”.'

The article says that "A petition filed with the Federal Supreme Court (STF) by the defence of ex-president Lula presents such new evidence that ex-judge Sergio Moro colluded with foreign authorities in conducting the process ..." and that "the latest leaked Telegram conversations ... are now official court documents". Can any Brasilians comment on whether these documents would be publicly available or whether any local media have reported on these?

The article also quoted a 2020 article ([2]) from Brasil Wire, in turn paraphrasing in English a 5-part series by Natalia Viana from the Brazilian investigative journalism site Agência Pública, which additionally said that:-

• "public prosecutor Deltan Dallagnol, received financial compensation through an asset sharing scheme based on kickbacks from fines that the US Government collected from Brazilian companies and individuals"
• "prosecutors suggested ways for the US to bypass the Federal Supreme Court to interrogate Brazilians. A Telegram message reads “Now we have a way to convince companies and individuals to reveal facts: threatening to inform the American authorities about corruption and international crimes (laughs)”
• Leslie Backschies, who now coordinates the FBI’s International Corruption Unit, said in an interview that they had seen Presidents toppled in Brazil. [points 16 & 24]

These are extremely serious allegations that should ideally be backed by articles from multiple major newspapers as well as local sources. However, I could not find any such recent articles. (Older sources [3] and [4].) Therefore, should I use Wire / Brasil Wire as sources? Can anyone provide more sources? Jose Mathew (talk) 14:48, 20 February 2021 (UTC)

Added as a new paragraph under the section 'Leaked Conversations. -Jose Mathew (talk) 11:05, 3 April 2021 (UTC)

sticking my head back in after a long break from this article: The corruption exposed in this scandal was extremely wide-reaching and pervasive and involved huge conglomerates in at least a dozen countries, so it would not be shocking that the US was one of them. There was an extremely sketchy Texas refinery deal under Rousseff as president, by Petronbras, which she used to manage, but it may simply have been a bad business decision — I never connected Rousseff but I have not looked at this in a very long time. For sure, there were scandals at Petrobras and with bribes for almost everyone, and road contracts all over South America, diamond mines in northern Brazil, bag men, the Peruvian President... I am currently committed elsewhere but if anyone has questions I will try to help. Not familiar with Wire as a sources though, but there used to be a few Brasilians who answered language questions here; they may know. Feel free to ping Elinruby (talk) 04:23, 4 March 2022 (UTC)

on cleanup and translation stuff

...alright, i think i'll be free from work for a while

this is gonna be a little long, both in things to type and time to type them, as they're based on both this article and its wp-pt counterpart. think of this as a hodgepodge of notes and a to-do list that will be gradually filled up

should also note that despite being in the place where it happened (please help), i tend to actively avoid politics while they're happening, and only really might revisit them a good while after the dust settles. usually to make fun of petrobras

but for starters...

• the lead section here is actually longer than in wp-pt (which is already as long as some start class articles here). i'm not an expert on politics or the manual of style for either flavor of wikipedia, but i think cutting it down to roughly 60% of the first paragraph, and then adding one or two paragraphs for petrolão and vaza jato (awful name by the way, not even a pun) would be nice
• should lula's fan club be referred to as "worker's party" or "pt" (as in "partido dos trabalhadores")? pt wins in riceland by a landslide via whatever its equivalent of wp:commonname is (as in i actually had to do some looking to find out what it stood for), but here, either name might be fair game
• the plural of "real" (referring to the currency, that is) is "reais". the one claim in the currency's article that states that that's not the case in english is unsourced and not even reflected there. regardless of whatever is done with the rest of the article, i'm absolutely changing that, but should the footnote be erased or just adjusted?
• there's a claim about a "father" raising money for zeca dirceu. it's worded in a way that only implies that said father is josé dirceu (which is pretty confusing, since zeca is actually a nickname, and his name is... also josé), but their specific relationship isn't mentioned in wp-en at all. it is mentioned in wp-pt (if in passing, due to it being treated like common knowledge among sources), but i have no idea where and how the claim should be added with this wiki's stricter biography policies
• probably gonna have to talk it over with the wp-pt folks, but that lead image kind of sucks, honestly. half of it is fluff of the fluffiest degree. torn on seeing if i can find a fitting picture for deltan and rodrigo that makes it look more or less like they're about to kiss

will handle some minor grammar stuff in some time, but that's what i got from a quick-ish read cogsan _{(nag me) (stalk me)} 20:14, 18 September 2024 (UTC)