Talk:Pargalı Ibrahim Pasha

Untitled

The description of Ibrahim Pasha is the one provided in a historical novel by Mika Waltari. However, I have done some research about this Grand Vizier and I haven't found sources for some of the statements. I would like to consult the author of this article whether he/she is basing the description in Waltari's book. If it is not the case, I would really appreciate if he/she could provide me his/her sources. Thak you

Esther Perez (Canada)

the two cents

How did Ibrahim Pasha enter Turkish service? Was he enslaved as a boy under the devsirme process and thereby forcibly converted to Islam? This aspect of his career has not been treated.

Charles Simmonds

Ibrahim Pasha enslaved as a boy under the devsirme process.

Did Ibrahim actually play the violin? It has been said that Suleiman's sister fell in love with Ibrahim after hearing him play the violin.

Yiannis Mantheakis — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2.84.36.179 (talk) 06:52, 10 October 2012 (UTC)

yes,Ibrahim Pasha actually play the violin.

WikiProject Military history/Assessment/Tag & Assess 2008

Article reassessed and graded as start class. --dashiellx (talk) 12:09, 16 June 2008 (UTC)

Şehzade Mustafa and İbrahim Pasha

Frankly, I couldn't understand the connection between Şehzade Mustafa ' execution and Pargalı İbrahim Pasha. Mustafa' execution was in 1553, 17 years later than İbrahim's execution. (There was an error in dates; I editted it.) Nedim Ardoğa (talk) 13:25, 2 November 2009 (UTC)

It has been suggested by a number of sources that Ibrahim Pasha had been a victim of Hürrem Sultan's (the sultan's legal wife) intrigues and rising influence on the sovereign, especially in view of Ibrahim's past support for the cause of Şehzade Mustafa, Suleiman's first son and heir to the throne. Şehzade Mustafa was accused of treason and strangled to death upon an order by his father on 6 October 1553, through a series of plots put in motion by Hürrem Sultan (who wanted one of her sons to become the next sultan, instead of Mustafa who was the son of Mahidevran Sultan).

According to Naima, Ibrihim is Sinan's son-in-law and not the sultan's (pp. 57,67) —Preceding unsigned comment added by 92.4.59.57 (talk) 18:01, 23 November 2009 (UTC)

Ibrahim pacha had two wives Hatice sultan the sister of the sultan Suleiman and Muhsine hatun which wasn't Sinan's daughter.

Ibrahim had ONE wife - Iskander Pasha's granddaughter! There exist not a single primary source mentioning him as Damat or mentioning sultan's sister!!! I'll write here later some direct indications from Sanudo's diaries that Ibrahim married a girl from Bosnian pasha's family. By the way, Ibrahim was rather gay) - his favorites like Jesme Bali or Alvise Gritti are well known. Two wives are too much for him ;) — Preceding unsigned comment added by 94.240.198.131 (talk) 22:35, 3 January 2018 (UTC)

Ethnicity, or whatever

Someone changed İbrahim's referenced ethnicity from Albanian to Greek [1]. As far as I can tell, the reference (a thesis written in Turkish) seems to say that he was indeed Albanian or Arvanid (but my understanding of Turkish is close to zero). I couldn't find any other reliable source regarding his ethnicity. I will revert the change, but decided to post a message here, as it would be nice to have a more widely published reference, if possible in English. ---Sluzzelin talk 20:27, 27 May 2010 (UTC)

Reliable source http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pargal%C4%B1_Ibrahim_Pasha

Personal details: Ibrahim was a Greek born to Christian parents,1493, in Parga, Epirus, modern Greece, then part of the Republic of Venice which today part of Albania.

 — Preceding unsigned comment added by 41.100.155.59 (talk) 22:27, 4 May 2014 (UTC) 

This obviously needs to be changed, I don't even know why Greek nationalists would even claim him considering he fought a part of the world that Greek nationalists in the nineteenth-century sought to emulate... #mindboggling Ottomanist (talk) 10:37, 16 May 2012 (UTC)

Name

• "Pargalı Ibrahim Pasha" -Llc 0 (only Wikipedia)

• "Frenk Ibrahim Pasha" -Llc 5
• "Maktul Ibrahim Pasha" -Llc 6

• "Makbul Ibrahim Pasha" -Llc 8

• 1536 Ibrahim-Pasha Grand-Vizier -Llc 290

Takabeg (talk) 23:49, 9 July 2011 (UTC)

Edit request on 31 October 2012

The phrases of greek origin of Pargalı will be removed because is not true — Preceding unsigned comment added by Margeni (talk • contribs) 14:52, 31 October 2012 (UTC)

The greek origin of pargali ibrahim is true because Ibrahim was a Greek born to Christian parents, in Parga, Epirus, modern Greece, then part of the Republic of Venice which today part of Albania.

bio. section: hatice sultan is not sultana hatice

that a female suffix after sultan shocked me as taking liberties with the use of sultan, as turkish does not distinguish fem/masc forms for words. Yayks! — Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.126.50.234 (talk) 21:12, 13 November 2012 (UTC)

Sultan (name) for male like sultan Suleiman.

(name) sultan for female like Hatice sultan and Hurrem sultan.

bio. section: "Christian" not further defined.

First sentence: 6 sources still leave it weak as they steam roll into "Christian. Orth. or Cath. may be important to that region and time. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.126.50.234 (talk) 21:44, 13 November 2012 (UTC)

Ibrahim Pargalı

اين يک دسيسه حرم بود که امر کشتن ابراهيم به استفاده نمودن از مهر سلطان سلپمان کرده بودند — Preceding unsigned comment added by 180.94.80.108 (talk) 19:54, 5 February 2013 (UTC)

او گفت که او با اختناق شاه سلیمان بزرگ خواجه ابراهیم پاشا کشته شد و مخفیانه

— Preceding unsigned comment added by 41.100.155.59 (talk) 23:25, 4 May 2014 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 4 May 2014

41.100.155.59 (talk) 21:33, 4 May 2014 (UTC)

Not done: it's not clear what changes you want made. Please mention the specific changes in a "change X to Y" format. NiciVampireHeart 23:15, 4 May 2014 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 4 May 2014

41.100.155.59 (talk) 21:39, 4 May 2014 (UTC)

Not done: it's not clear what changes you want made. Please mention the specific changes in a "change X to Y" format. NiciVampireHeart 23:16, 4 May 2014 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 31 August 2014

I have some sources that say that he was a albanian (cham) sold as a slave by venetian pirates.

79.106.109.189 (talk) 12:49, 31 August 2014 (UTC)I say we shall use both as possibilities.

Not done for now: provide those sources please and see if they meet Wikipedia's criteria for reliable sources Cannolis (talk) 15:08, 31 August 2014 (UTC)

hi

ibrahim pasha was albanian as all peoples in parga — Preceding unsigned comment added by 109.69.5.122 (talk) 13:57, 13 September 2014 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 13 September 2014

92.53.17.68 (talk) 23:49, 13 September 2014 (UTC)

He was not Greek, he was Albanian,

Not done: please provide reliable sources that support the change you want to be made. Cannolis (talk) 01:57, 14 September 2014 (UTC)

Pargali Ibrahim Pasha issue Fülane Sultan of Hatice Sultan is different from Fülane Sultan that is linked to a different person with the same name. Therefore the link should be cut.

In the article "Pargali Ibrahim Pasha", Pargali Ibrahim Pasha issue "Fülane Sultan of Hatice Sultan" is different from "Fülane Sultan" that is linked to a different person with the same name. Therefore, the link should be cut. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Sarimazandaran (talk • contribs) 18:39, 26 May 2015 (UTC)

In the article "Pargali Ibrahim Pasha", Pargali Ibrahim Pasha issue "Fülane Sultan of Hatice Sultan" is different from "Fülane Sultan" that is linked to a different person with the same name. Therefore, the link should be cut.

In the article "Pargali Ibrahim Pasha", Pargali Ibrahim Pasha issue "Fülane Sultan of Hatice Sultan" is different from "Fülane Sultan" that is linked to a different person with the same name. Therefore, the link should be cut. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Sarimazandaran (talk • contribs) 18:41, 26 May 2015 (UTC)

Ibrahim Pasha's wife & POV

Ibrahim's wedding was on 18. Rajab 930. (22.5.1524.). Source: "Historija (1520-1576) Ibrahim Alajbegović Pečevija" original by the Ottoman historian Pecevi and translated to Bosnian by Fehim Nametak, Sarajevo 2000, page 82.

Of the wedding Pecevi writes: "Na ovo je padišah dao traženu dozvolu i uz to obećao da će i sam svojim prisustvom uveličati čin vjenčanja. Određene su osobe sa svih strana koje se razumiju u posao i koje imaju sposobnosti da otpočnu pripreme svečanosti. Nakon toga su postavljeni ukrašeni šatori na Atmejdanu, koji je tako prostran trg kao deveti kat nebesa. Pred pozornicom za vojnu muziku postavljen je sretni prijestol za pobjedonosnog padišaha. " he adds: "Nikad do sada na svadbama nijedne princeze nije se pred očima svijeta pojavilo toliko obilje i radost."

Translation: "Upon this, the padishah gave the requested permission and promised that he himself would magnify the wedding ceremony with his presence. Persons from all sides who understand the business and who have the ability to start preparations for the ceremony were appointed. After that, decorated tents were set up on the Atmejdan , which is as spacious a square as the ninth floor of the heavens. In front of the stage for military music, a happy throne for the victorious Padishah was placed." he adds: "Never before at the wedding of any princess has such abundance and joy appeared before the eyes of the world." — Preceding unsigned comment added by 104.158.48.195 (talk) 21:06, 31 May 2023 (UTC)

Ebru Turan has wrote, that Ibrahim Pasha's wife wasn't Hatice Sultan, but Muhsine Hatun. — Preceding unsigned comment added by MWK (talk • contribs) 12:09, 15 October 2015 (UTC)

References

This is indeed true, and I have edited the article to reflect this. Chamboz (talk) 18:49, 11 September 2016 (UTC)

@Chamboz I don't want to engage in an edit war but it's been mentioned by many authors that Ibrahim was actually married to Hatice. You have a single source above that says no such marriage never took place. It's OK. This is one of the facts that is disputed among historians, so both sides of the story must be mentioned. Go and take a look at the articles about Ancient Egyptian figures and you see that there are thousands of such theories and all of them are included on each of the articles cause they can't be simply denied. Keivan.f^Talk 19:36, 14 October 2016 (UTC)

Of course it's mentioned by tons of authors. That's how it is with historical myths: you can find lots of older books which repeat it over and over. The important thing is to see what modern historians believe. The article disproving the marriage was written in 2009, so you need to find sources more recent than that. Uzunçarşılı doesn't count because he died in 1977, any materials of his with newer publication dates are reprints, not the original time of writing. I've added another source, from a book on Süleyman published in 2013, which corroborates the Turan article. Chamboz (talk) 19:41, 14 October 2016 (UTC)

@Chamboz I'm not Turkish myself and I also have a basic knowledge of Turkish language so my access is limited to English sources about the Ottoman Empire only. You, however, seem to be of Turkish descent or at least you have studied about it and you know Turkish language as well, so I have to trust what you say. So honestly hasn't any author in Turkey published any book since 2009 to oppose Turan's claims about Ibrahim and Hatcie? And also is it a reliable source? I know that she's a historian but are her statements absolutely true and backed by several other historians and historical sources or is it only a speculation like previous theories and stories that were said by the historians before her? Keivan.f^Talk 21:16, 14 October 2016 (UTC)

I'm not Turkish, but I do know the language. And yes, it's a reliable source - Ebru Turan is an expert on her topic and puts forth very convincing arguments, tracing the development of the myth through Ottoman historiography before going back to the primary sources to demonstrate that there's no actual reference to any marriage between Hatice and Ibrahim. Historians read about Ibrahim having a public wedding with massive celebrations, so historians assumed that for him to have such a grand wedding meant that he must have married an Ottoman princess. Turan shows who it was that he actually married by examining the contemporary sources and then offers her own explanation for why the wedding was so grand - because Ibrahim Pasha was an outsider to the Ottoman system, and his marriage to a member of the Ottoman elite was orchestrated by Suleiman as a public demonstration that the new grand vizier was to be taken as their equal. Chamboz (talk) 21:22, 14 October 2016 (UTC)

@Chamboz Interesting, so she actually proves in many different ways that no such marriage never took place between them and also names the bride and determines her identity. Very well, I withdraw because you say that no historian has been able to object to her statements for now. But if you can find any source that says otherwise, please add that as well. Keivan.f^Talk 21:40, 14 October 2016 (UTC)

Of course, I'll add any new and reliable information I come across. Chamboz (talk) 22:07, 14 October 2016 (UTC)

Selecting sources makes this article POV. Your opinion is based on one person's opinion (Ebru Turan) which is contradicting the majority's opinion. The only way you can remove the POV template is that you revert to the original version (Hatice) and then you mention that Ebru Turan thinks otherwise. And explain why. By the way even the Turkish version says it was Hatice, although somebody inserted Hatun's name too.Carlos71 (talk) 09:28, 18 January 2018 (UTC)

No, I don't cite just Turan, I also cite Kaya Şahin, who supports her. I could also add a citation to the new book Empress of the East by Leslie Peirce (the most famous historian of Ottoman imperial women of this era), in which she also supports Turan's claim. Turan's thesis is generally accepted. Chamboz (talk) 10:48, 18 January 2018 (UTC)

1.) Don't misunderstand me. All I want is that both opinions should be in the article to make it neutral as there are 2 opinions on this topic. As the Hatice story is older it should be cited first then you can say that according newer opinions this is a historical error and can tell us why Turan, Sahin etc. think so. Even a historian has to explain the reason. 2.) Even if I accept that it is a misconception about the marriage to Hatice it should be mentioned in the article as it is a common belief especially after the magnificient century series.Carlos71 (talk) 12:42, 18 January 2018 (UTC)

Done. I hope you think the new version is fair now that there's more explanation to it, which as you say a lot of readers would probably be looking for. Chamboz (talk) 22:36, 19 January 2018 (UTC)

Thanks. Removed the template.Carlos71 (talk) 19:04, 25 January 2018 (UTC)

Entirely New Entry - more in depth and detailed. All academic sources cited. on 30 November 2017

Pargali Ibrahim Pasha (b. 1494 – 5th March 1536) known as Ibrahim Pasha, was the first Grand Vizier to Sultan Suleyman the Magnificent of the Ottoman Empire. The “Pargali” came from his place of birth, Parga, but he was later known as “Makbul Ibrahim Pasha” (“persona grata” or the favorite) and then later “Maktul Ibrahim Pasha” (“the murdered”). He was taken from Parga by pirates and enslaved at a young age. After being educated, he was eventually sold to Suleyman while the future sultan was the Sanjakbey in Manisa. Ibrahim Pasha would go on to serve Suleyman and the Ottoman Empire as Grand Vizier for 13 years before being executed. He was an extremely influential man whose relationship with Suleyman gave him a lot of power during a time of great expansion for the empire.

Upbringing & Personal Life It is generally accepted that pirates captured Ibrahim Pasha when he was six years old and sold him into slavery. Parga is located in northwestern Greece on the border between Greece and Albania. Ibrahim Pasha was of Albanian decent and born to Christian parents. As was traditional in the kul system, Ibrahim Pasha converted to Islam so that he could have a successful career, otherwise his upward mobility would not have been possible.

The modern accounts differ slightly. Some say that he sold to a widow in Manisa, which is in western Anatolia. In her household, he was educated well and he went on to be sold to Suleyman when he was serving as Sanjakbey, or governor, of Manisa. This practice of future sultans serving as governors in provinces throughout the empire before taking the throne was common practice. Another explanation suggests he was brought to Istanbul where he was educated and possibly trained alongside the Janissaries, which explains his high military knowledge. Regardless, he came to work with Suleyman in Manisa after being taken from his Christian home and sold into slavery. When Suleyman returned to Istanbul to rule, he brought Ibrahim Pasha with him.

Despite his capture, slave status, and religious conversion, he remained in touch with his family in Parga. In 1527, his father visited him in Constantinople and his mother and brothers also visited the Palace at one point. Ibrahim Pasha was even able to gift his father a governorship, or sanjak.

After becoming Grand Vizier, Ibrahim Pasha was brought into the sultan’s family through marriage to Suleyman’s sister Hadice Hanim The wedding was 15 full days of lavish feasts and celebration, which the sultan attended. This wasn’t the only time that a member of the royal family was married to a Grand Vizier. Suleyman’s daughter Mihrimah, and his closest confidant after the death of Ibrahim and his wife, was married to Rustem Pasha, a former slave and grand vizier. So the practice happened but was reserved for important grand viziers with especially close connections to the sultan.

He was also known for having extravagant taste and gifted Suleyman with many jewels and gold over the years. In 1525 he gave the sultan a gold cup with 200,000 ducats worth of diamonds, pearls, and jewels. He personally coordinated the purchase and transfer of Suleyman’s golden helmet that had four crowns and encouraged the sultan to use expensive, lavish items to intimidate foreign enemies. Ibrahim Pasha, born in Venetian territory, was always supportive of Venetian trade of lavish items such as jewelry and artwork and himself adorned ostentatious signs of power. This is said to have assisted in his demise because he spent so much of the empire’s money and because this display of wealth wasn’t in line with traditional Islamic practices

Political Career Ibrahim Pasha gained the attention of the future sultan because of his upscale education, intelligence, and skills. In Manisa, then known as Magnesia, Ibrahim Pasha became a page of Suleyman. This is interesting because most of the other pages were specially trained and educated in Constantinople, but Ibrahim Pasha received a quality education in the widow’s home in Manisa, which proved to be enough. While most pages lived near the sultan’s housing in dormitories, Ibrahim ate his meals with Suleyman and slept in his lord’s apartment. While Suleyman was Ibrahim’s lord, they were the same age and grew to be very close friends. It was because of this inseparable bond and an appreciation for his skills and intelligence that Suleyman promoted Ibrahim Pasha very quickly.

Selim I died in 1520 and Ibrahim accompanied Suleyman to Istanbul where he was promoted to chief falconer and soon after he became master of the bedchamber. Both of these positions were highly important because they meant very close proximity to the sultan. Just a few years after arriving in Istanbul with Suleyman, Ibrahim Pasha moved into the role of Grand Vizier where he would remain until his execution in 1536. Ibrahim was serving as third vizier when the job opened up. Like most instances of his promotions, he was promoted over other more established and experienced men, which meant that he accumulated a lot of enemies. Ahmed Pasha was second vizier and secured the downfall of the former grand vizier himself in order to gain the title. To his surprise, Suleyman chose Ibrahim and shipped Ahmed to Egypt to serve as governor, a less desirable position.

While he spent a lot of time in the palace with Suleyman, Ibrahim Pasha also proved himself as a military mind. He proved himself by working to quell rebellions across the empire, including a 1527 uprising under Kalenderoghulu that defeated Suleyman’s army that he sent to suppress it. Ibrahim Pasha worked diplomatically with the rebels and, by giving them back their land, weakened their ranks enough to overtake them. He also led campaigns of his own in Hungary, both 1529 and 1532, and in Persia, which ended with the conquest of Baghdad at the end of 1534.

His Fall Despite their close friendship, Ibrahim Pasha was executed in March of 1536. There are no clear answers as to why Suleyman would choose to kill his confidant and closest friend but there are a variety of factors that might have contributed. Firstly, Suleyman gave Ibrahim a lot of power and it is thought that Ibrahim might have taken it too far. During the Persian expedition that ended with the conquest of Baghdad, Ibrahim assumed the title of Serasker-Sultan. In the Ottoman Empire there was only one sultan and Suleyman might have seen this as a challenge to his authority, especially because Ahmed Pasha assumed the title of sultan when he rebelled in Egypt years earlier. Secondly, it is commonly known that Suleyman’s wife, Hurrem Sultan, wanted more power for herself so she convinced her husband that Ibrahim Pasha was plotting against him. Lastly, some wonder if his religiosity factored into his fall out with the sultan. While he converted to Islam, he was born a Christian and it is doubtful that he fully embraced Islam and its teachings. As he gained more power and was more comfortable in Istanbul, he began to make decisions that went against Islam and had a lack of consideration of Muslim practices and rules.

Significance Despite Ibrahim Pasha’s important role in the empire for thirteen years as Grand Vizier, he was strangled to death and put in an unmarked grave on the order of the sultan. While his reign ended in tragedy, he was an extremely influential figure in Ottoman history. He led the empire alongside Suleyman the Magnificent during one of the periods of greatest growth for the empire. He led military campaigns, negotiated diplomatic solutions with external states and internal rebellions, and brought Venetian culture and art into Istanbul.

   Jenkins, Hester Donaldson. Ibrahim Pasha: Grand Vizir of Suleiman the Magnificent. New York, Columbia University, 1911. Page 18 & 108.
 ASAL, Pinar. “Turkish and Islamic Art Museum: The Palace of Grand Vizier Ibrahim Pasha”, Turk Neurosurg 2014, Vol: 24, No: 5, 628-634
 Hotel Ibrahim Pasha. “Ibrahim Pasha.” Who Is Ibrahim Pasha | Hotel Ibrahim Pasha, www.ibrahimpasha.com/who.html. Accessed 19 Nov 17.
Jenkins, Hester Donaldson. Ibrahim Pasha. Page 19.
 ASAL, Pinar. “Turkish and Islamic Art Museum”
 Jenkins, Hester Donaldson. Ibrahim Pasha. Page 20.
Jenkins, Jester Donaldson, Ibrahim Pasha. Page 19
 Dursteler, Eric R. “Ibrahim Pasa Grand Vizier of the Ottoman Empire (1523-1536)” of Great Lives from History: The Renaissance & Early Modern Era, 1454-1600). Salem Press, 2005. Page 480.
 Jenkins, Jester Donaldson, Ibrahim Pasha. Page 40
 Necipolgu, Gulru, “Suleyman the Magnificent and the Representation of Power in the Context of Ottoman-Hapsburg-Papal Rivalry,” The Art Bulletin, v. 71 (1989), page 406.
 Necipolgu, Gulru, “Suleyman the Magnificent and the Representation of Power in the Context of Ottoman-Hapsburg-Papal Rivalry,” page 406.
 Necipolgu, Gulru, “Suleyman the Magnificent and the Representation of Power in the Context of Ottoman-Hapsburg-Papal Rivalry,” Page 405.
 Jenkins, Jester Donaldson, Ibrahim Pasha. Page 22
 Jenkins, Jester Donaldson, Ibrahim Pasha. Page 22
 Dursteler, Eric R. “Ibrahim Pasa Grand Vizier of the Ottoman Empire (1523-1536)”. Page 480.
 Jenkins, Jester Donaldson, Ibrahim Pasha. Page 36
 Imber, Colin. The Ottoman Empire, 1300-1650: the Structure of Power. Palgrave Macmillan, 2009. Page 50
 Dursteler, Eric R. “Ibrahim Pasa Grand Vizier of the Ottoman Empire (1523-1536)”. Page 481.
 Jenkins, Jester Donaldson, Ibrahim Pasha. Page 112
 Dursteler, Eric R. “Ibrahim Pasa Grand Vizier of the Ottoman Empire (1523-1536)”. Page 481.
 Jenkins, Jester Donaldson, Ibrahim Pasha. Page 110
 Jenkins, Jester Donaldson, Ibrahim Pasha. Page 109

@Larmacost:  Not done. You're right; this is an entirely new entry. These requests are generally reserved for small, minor changes. You can edit this page once your account is four days old and has ten edits; you're way past four days and have only seven edits to go. That's to get you a bit of experience, a bit more understanding, and a feel for the way things work around here. By the time you pass that threshold, you'll be a lot more comfortable and able to do these edits yourself. So could you please have a look around for a non-protected article or two that you could work on, then come back and make this edit yourself? CityOfSilver 18:51, 30 November 2017 (UTC)

In addition to what CityOfSilver wrote, I would also say that the fact that there are no inline citation is a huge problem. These days it is simply not good enough to leave a lot of sources at the end: in addition, you also have to source each paragraph, sometimes each sentence. Huldra (talk) 20:19, 30 November 2017 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 25 February 2019

I suggest other editors should add the death of Ibrahim. Thats all Mehtheman (talk) 02:08, 25 February 2019 (UTC)

 Not done: please provide reliable sources that support the change you want to be made. - FlightTime (open channel) 02:13, 25 February 2019 (UTC)

"Property confiscated by the state"

In the introductory paragraph:

...but in 1536, he was executed on Suleiman's orders and his property was confiscated by the state.

This statement, while true, is a little misleading. In the Ottoman Empire, at the time, all property owned by government officers was in theory still owned by the Sultan himself, and subsequently "returned" to the Sultan upon the officer's death. From Harold Lamb's: “Suleiman The Magnificent Sultan Of The East", page 230:

"This matter of the care of individuals had grown very complex since the day of the Conqueror. The peculiarity of the Osmanli Organization lay in its responsibility for the individual person, whether peasant, shopkeeper, tribesman, seaman or literate lawyer or physician. At death the property of an officer of the Organization returned to the Treasury. No family estates could be created; those who served Suleiman were their own heirs; they had no others. In consequence there existed no class of wealthy men, or of dominant nobles.”

In other words, had Ibrahim lived out the rest of his life as a normal government officer, his property would have returned to the state regardless. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 37.30.23.230 (talk) 14:32, 29 September 2019 (UTC)

Ibrahim Pasha

IBRAHIM PASHA:

Overview

Ibrahim Pasha was the Grand Vizier to Suleyman the Magnificent from 1523-1536 in the Ottoman Empire. He is known for having immense influence over Suleyman I, who was a childhood friend. Some even believe that Ibrahim Pasha may have had even more power than the Sultan himself. Eventually, Suleyman ordered the execution of Ibrahim Pasha in 1536, resulting in the death of one of the most powerful Grand Viziers the Ottoman Empire had ever seen.

Early Years

Ibrahim Pasha was born a Christian near Parga, a city in Northwestern Greece. At some point during his childhood, he became part of the devshirme system, which the Ottoman used to recruit new soldiers and members of government by taking children from their territories in the Balkans. Once removed from his home, Ibrahim Pasha was sent to the palace school in Istanbul, where he was trained to have an eventual role in government. Later, he was assigned to assist Prince Suleyman, who was governor of Maʿnīsa at the time. These two became close friends during this period of Ibrahim Pasha’s life, ultimately setting him up for a significant role when Suleyman became the Sultan in 1520.

Political

Being in the palace school, Ibrahim Pasha was always destined for a senior administrative role in the Empire. After being a personal advisor to Suleyman, Ibrahim Pasha became Grand Vizier--the second most powerful position in the Empire. This was a surprise due to his inexperience and young age, angering others in the higher levels of government who felt they were more qualified. When one of these individuals, Ahmed Pasha, started a revolt in Egypt out of frustration, Ibrahim Pasha was sent to deal with the threat accordingly. Ibrahim Pasha ended the rebellion and then returned to Suleyman, where he would turn into one of his most trusted advisers, diplomats, and military commanders. His arrogance towards certain issues is well noted in historical documents, which most likely contributed to his eventual execution.

Political Influence

As a close friend and trusted adviser to Suleyman, Ibrahim Pasha had a great amount of influence on the Sultan and his behavior. Specifically, Ibrahim Pasha was able to mold the way Suleyman looked at European culture and the way money was used to acquire cultural objects such as portraits or crowns. Ibrahim Pasha admired the monarchs of Europe and would always seek to buy expensive artifacts that symbolized Western excellence. He was able to morph the image of Suleyman by presenting him with gifts like rare jewels. An example of this Euro-centered extravagance was a massive golden, Venitian crown that portrayed Suleyman as a world leader with control over both the East and West. While Ibrahim Pasha saw such expenses as a way to portray a strong image of the Empire, others did not like Suleyman idolizing Western culture. Additionally, Ibrahim Pasha would hold massive events for Suleyman and his family, such as a party for a son’s circumcision. The extravagance and expense of these ceremonies became well known in the Empire, leaving some to question the necessity of them. His tendency to spend such massive amounts is another potential reason why some within the palace became sick of his ways and plotted his execution.

References

• Gökbilgin, M. Tayyib. “Ibrāhīm Pas̲h̲a.” Encyclopaedia of Islam, Second Edition, April 24, 2012. https://referenceworks-brillonline-com.turing.library.northwestern.edu/entries/encyclopaedia-of-islam-2/ibrahim-pasha-SIM_3457?s.num=1&s.f.s2_parent=s.f.book.encyclopaedia-of-islam-2&s.q=Ibrahim+Pasha.
• Necipoğlu, Gülru. “Süleyman the Magnificent and the Representation of Power in the Context of Ottoman- Hapsburg-Papal Rivalry.” College Art Association 71 (n.d.): 401–27.

Oliver.Vasconcelles (talk) 20:39, 2 March 2020 (UTC)

 Not done: it's not clear what changes you want to be made. Please mention the specific changes in a "change X to Y" format and provide a reliable source if appropriate. JTP ^{(talk • contribs)} 20:18, 3 March 2020 (UTC)

EVERYTHING'S MISSING!

What da hell are you doing who's in charge of this page? Who do you think you are editing Ibrahim Pasha's page like this amk oglu!

Alot of information about him are missing in this page. Whoever closed this page not to be edited should get banned for vandalism! Almost everything about his life are missing! You just put his life on perspective of Ebru Turan! what da fffffff

Let people edit this page who studied his life instead of idiots who closed this page. You don't know anysh't about him! Such man like Ibrahim Pasha gets small page like this what a shame! You made me angry with this ignorant way of work. Open the page amk cocuklari open! — Preceding unsigned comment added by Mralrayz999 (talk • contribs) 13:51, 16 March 2020 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 16 March 2020

Mralrayz999 (talk) 14:07, 16 March 2020 (UTC)

Dear manager, I've studied Ibrahim Pasha's life in both my history class which i'm studying History at Istanbul University right now and by books by Jenkins, Hammer, Fidel, Erhan Afyoncu, İsmail Hakkı Çarşılı, Halil İnalcık. Afyoncu, Çarşılı and İnalcık are the top historians in Turkey which i've talked two of them in my life. I can't literally believe that this page has such poor information capacity! Unbelievable! I had a page that i forgot it's password. I had huge constribuations about Ibrahim Pasha in turkish wikipedia. I appricate that you protect his page from vandalism but! The way you let Ibrahim Pasha's page to be edited such poorly is just shameful. He's a great iconic name among grandviziers of Ottoman Empire. He was in office for 13 years. His page needs LOT more info. For example, almost nothing is written about his role in campaigns. Same goes for his political career! Where is his personal details his legacy? Unbelievable!

 Not done: it's not clear what changes you want to be made. Please mention the specific changes in a "change X to Y" format and provide a reliable source if appropriate. ‑‑ElHef (Meep?) 14:45, 16 March 2020 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 3 September 2020

The article is based on the references of practically only one author, which is clearly not acceptable in scientific circles Ibrahim Pasha was an famous Ottoman Grand Vizier. This article couriously small and vague, possibly the result of a political whitewash. It is also quite ridiculous to have a picture of a modern Turkish actor depicting Ibrahim Pasha. This is as ridiculous as having a picture of Elizabeth Taylor as Cleopatra. 2A02:587:3826:7800:702C:387A:2BBB:5D22 (talk) 11:13, 3 September 2020 (UTC)

 Not done: it's not clear what changes you want to be made. Please mention the specific changes in a "change X to Y" format and provide a reliable source if appropriate. Seagull123 Φ 11:31, 3 September 2020 (UTC)

On Ibrahim Pasha's sexuality

User YoungAstrolabe edited this page (and Suleiman the Magnificent's, along with many others) which states that Ibrahim Pasha was a known lover to Suleiman the Magnificent. Is there any historical source that can be pointed to to prove this? If not I would recommend reverting this article back to how it was once read. User cites the same recent book The Ottomans: Khans, Caesars, Caliphs by Marc David Baer for all edits regarding famous Ottoman, Mongolic, and Chinese officials and their sexualities, all of which had no information previously. If some verification could be done regarding other edits of this user, that would be great for historical integrity. Marley's Shield (talk) 05:41, 1 November 2022 (UTC)

There are actually quite a few historical sources.

While I did, in fact, cite other references for famous Ottoman, Mongolic, and Chinese officials, I do admit to using The Ottomans: Khans, Caesars, Caliphs as a primary source. This text contains extensive accounts from which the author draws; for simplicity's sake, I did not cite all of them. I would be more than happy to add further sources if need be, though I do ask users to wait a few days so that I may do so. Marley's Shield, I invite you to examine the book and its bibliography yourself. I, of course, welcome any and all confirmation of my edits.

Cheers! YoungAstrolabe (talk) 13:26, 12 November 2022 (UTC)

Marley's Shield (and anyone else interested in this topic), I suggest starting with the following:

- Encyclopaedia of Islam, Second Edition, s.v. ‘Ibrāhīm Pasha’, by M. Tayyib Gökbilgin.

- Report of Pietro Zen, Venetian ambassador to the Ottoman Empire, 1523.

- Turan, ‘The Sultan’s Favorite.’

I am certain you would find these sources both fascinating and educational, as I did. If you would like to narrow your reading down to specific passages, I'd be more than happy to recommend some. :)

I have also added a "possibly" before "lovers," although—as I'm sure you must be aware—that sort of qualification is rarely tacked on to analogous statements concerning historical individuals assumed to possess what modern viewers would call heterosexuality.

I hope this helps. Happy reading, if you so choose. YoungAstrolabe (talk) 14:02, 12 November 2022 (UTC)

broken English!

can somebody please fix the broken English in the article??? "After his execution in the Topkapı Palace, was the first Grand Vizier of the Ottoman Empire" 76.156.6.163 (talk) 18:45, 22 November 2022 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 14 July 2023

Change “ His ethnicity is unknown, but he probably originally spoke a Slavic dialect and also knew Greek and Albanian.”

A Probable Albanian of Cham Origin

The identity and origins of historical figures often provoke debates and discussions. In the case of Ibrahim Pasha, a prominent figure in Ottoman history, there are compelling reasons to argue that he was most likely an Albanian of Cham origin. Based on historical records and geographical context, this argument aims to shed light on Ibrahim Pasha's likely heritage, focusing on the predominantly Cham Albanian stronghold of Parga, his birthplace.

Historical Context: Parga, the birthplace of Ibrahim Pasha, was historically a predominantly Cham Albanian town. The Cham Albanians, an ethnic group inhabiting the region, had a distinct culture, language, and history. Recognizing the local demographics is crucial in understanding the probable ethnic origins of Ibrahim Pasha. Given Parga's location and historical context, it is reasonable to assume a Cham Albanian heritage for Ibrahim Pasha. Geographical Proximity: Parga's proximity to the Cham Albanian region further strengthens the argument for Ibrahim Pasha's Cham Albanian origins. The Cham Albanians inhabited the territories of modern-day Albania and northwest Greece, which includes Parga. Geographical proximity often leads to cultural and ethnic exchange, making it likely that Ibrahim Pasha was influenced by the Cham Albanian culture and traditions. Lack of Concrete Evidence: While historical records provide information about Ibrahim Pasha's life, they often lack definitive evidence regarding his ethnic background. The absence of conclusive evidence opens the door for scholarly analysis and interpretation. By considering the demographic composition of Parga and its close ties to the Cham Albanian region, it becomes reasonable to assert that Ibrahim Pasha was likely an Albanian of Cham origin. Cultural and Linguistic Connections: Examining Ibrahim Pasha's cultural and linguistic connections can offer additional insights into his probable Albanian origins. The Cham Albanians possessed a distinct culture and language that set them apart from other ethnic groups in the region. If Ibrahim Pasha grew up in Parga, where the Cham Albanians were the majority, it is plausible that he would have been exposed to their culture, language, and traditions, thereby shaping his identity. Historical Speculation and Interpretation: Historical interpretation often involves making reasonable assumptions based on the available evidence. While it is important to rely on documented facts, historical analysis sometimes requires speculation and inference. Given the historical context and geographical factors, interpreting Ibrahim Pasha as an Albanian of Cham origin aligns with the available evidence and logical reasoning. Conclusion: Based on the historical context, geographical proximity, lack of concrete evidence, cultural and linguistic connections, and the necessity of historical speculation, it is reasonable to argue that Ibrahim Pasha was most likely an Albanian of Cham origin. Acknowledging this perspective on his Wikipedia page would provide readers with a well-rounded understanding of his likely ethnic heritage. History is a complex field, and it is essential to explore different possibilities while maintaining scholarly rigor. 2607:FEA8:A75E:6D00:7518:E0D1:62B5:D8B3 (talk) 23:33, 14 July 2023 (UTC)

 Not done: please provide reliable sources that support the change you want to be made. Xan747 (talk) 03:18, 15 July 2023 (UTC)

This article is not acceptable for Wikipedia standards at all.

"As his power and wealth grew, so did his arrogance, and he behaved as if he were in charge, not the Sultan."

This is judgmental, biased, and not objective. It needs to be changed. WordsAreNotViolence (talk) 03:03, 25 September 2023 (UTC)

Wrong date of death

The date of death you give (March 5th 1536) is wrong.

According to Türkiye Diyanet Vakfı Islâm Ansiklopedisi, record "İbrâhim Paşa, Makbul" he was "suddenly strangled to death without any reason on the night of 21-22 Ramadan 942 (14-15 March 1536)".

I do not understand why you constantly give wrong dates, or dates which differ in the list of events for the specific day and in respective articles. This time the date is correct in the list of events for March 15th, but wrong in the respective article. This is not the first time.

Make the necessary correction. 2A02:AB04:2D4:8C00:8070:9364:6A0F:D411 (talk) 09:14, 15 March 2024 (UTC)