Talk:Pigcasso

A news item involving Pigcasso was featured on Wikipedia's Main Page in the In the news section on 7 March 2024.

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The following Wikipedia contributor has declared a personal or professional connection to the subject of this article. Relevant policies and guidelines may include conflict of interest, autobiography, and neutral point of view.
Their edits to this article were last checked for neutrality on 9 August 2021 by HitroMilanese.

Joanne Lefson (talk · contribs) This user has contributed to the article. This user has declared a connection. (Declaration)

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Participate in the deletion discussion at the nomination page. —Community Tech bot (talk) 11:22, 26 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Date of birth[edit]

This source says "Lefson, an animal activist from Franschhoek, South Africa, rescued Pigcasso from a slaughterhouse when the oinker just four weeks-old in May 2016." So she must have been born in April or May 2016, not March? Martinevans123 (talk) 11:20, 8 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Not sure how reliable this source is as there is no mention in the article of "from a slaughterhouse"? Martinevans123 (talk) 16:25, 8 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Have now added this detail, as it appears in the existing source. Martinevans123 (talk) 17:17, 8 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Similarly, this source says "The 13th May 2016 was a very important day for Pigcasso and her sister, Rosie. They were two baby piglets, just one-month old, born on a South African pig farm.". So this suggests she was born about 13 April? Martinevans123 (talk) 11:26, 8 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

So the existing source here says: "In May 2016, Jo rescued a pair of two-month-old piglets, Pigcasso and her sister Rosie, from a South African slaughterhouse." and supports a birth in March. But the first sentence and the infobox give "c. April", with no source. Is there any particular reason for this? Perhaps "March" should be used in all cases, with a footnote in the "Life" section, if required? Thanks. Martinevans123 (talk) 17:15, 8 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Hey Martinevans123. Sorry, I didn't see this discussion earlier. I've seen sources that say the piglets were four weeks old, 2 months old, and 6 months old when adopted. The (deprecated) New York Post article says that Pigcasso died in March 2024, but was only four weeks old in May 2016, and then claims impossibly that she was 8 years old when she died. I think much of the source material can ultimately be traced to Lefson, who has clearly employed services (like Caters News) to generate articles. I don't have access to her book, which might pin down the date more definitely. I added the c. because the birth date is questionable, but either March or April would work. gobonobo ⁺ ^c 00:57, 9 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Could you offer any reliable sources for a birth in April 2016? Thanks. Martinevans123 (talk) 09:13, 10 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

@Martinevans123 USA Today: "She would have turned 8 in April." gobonobo ⁺ ^c 10:24, 10 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks. I've now added that source and removed the "c." instances. Martinevans123 (talk) 10:35, 10 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Married her dog[edit]

I see that the sources at Oscar are this one (which doesn't work) and this one. But the article for Marriage doesn't actually mention Las Vegas, Elvis impersonator, or even Wedding chapel. So I'm guessing this wasn't actually a legally-binding marriage. Is any kind of rewording appropriate? Thanks. Martinevans123 (talk) 18:03, 10 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Here's an archive url. While marriage is a legally recognized institution, it also exists outside of the law. Both sources support the wording, but I don't think it is particularly important that the marriage is mentioned in this article. The mention of Oscar should stay though. gobonobo ⁺ ^c 18:31, 10 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Perhaps the mention is best omitted from this one? Along with the adoption and the accidental killing? They tells us about Lefson, bit they do not really tell us anything about Pigcasso. No strong view. Is it only in Las Vegas that someone can "marry" a dog? Martinevans123 (talk) 18:43, 10 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

The adoption at least should stay. It shows that she has rescued other animals in the past and received publicity for unusual feats accomplished with them. gobonobo ⁺ ^c 18:48, 10 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

No objection. Martinevans123 (talk) 19:52, 10 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

First non-Human and commissioning by Swatch[edit]

In section Media, the sentence ahs two dubious tags; one saying she was the first non-human and that Swatch commissioned the work. While I'm unsure of the former, can the latter instead be reworded to collaborated? -- Rsrikanth05 (talk) 06:12, 11 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Pigcasso—abstract expressionist?[edit]

I really don't know if we should allow Pigcasso to be included in Category:Abstract expressionist artists. Can pigs even be artists? Can animal-made art be assigned genres? I think it would be odd to not categorize her as an artist at all, for while she is only an animal artist, it is what she is known for. Our article on abstract expressionism says the genre has an "emphasis on spontaneous, automatic, or subconscious creation", which seems apropos. Additionally, there are sources. The TimesLive article straight up says "Pigcasso is described as an 'abstract expressionist'" and CBS News refers to her works as "abstract expressionist masterpieces". @Martinevans123: I've restored the category for now, but agree that it merits discussion. gobonobo ⁺ ^c 22:01, 27 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

If these were her subconscious creations, I wonder what her conscious creations looked like. I guess she kept those to herself? I would have thought that artistic expression, in whatever genre, would require some kind of intentionality. As with any article, I think a category may be justified only if there adequately sourced material in the article to support it. But at least she was a real pig not a collection of abstract AI algorithms? Martinevans123 (talk) 22:52, 27 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Ultimately, we'll need to reflect the conclusions of reliable sources. The TimesLive and CBS News sources support that she and her artworks are described as abstract expressionist, so justification exists. I do not think intentionality is obligatory for artistic expression; many genres of art benefit from or are born of a lack of intentionality. If she were a human artist, there would be no argument here. So it comes down to whether non-human artists can exist. Is Pockets Warhol not an artist? Do the works of Congo not move you? gobonobo ⁺ ^c 23:50, 27 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

".. if she were a human..." well, yes, things might be very different. Although it's hard to imagine Wikipedia with any arguments. Martinevans123 (talk) 08:10, 28 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]