Talk:Proposals for a Jewish state

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Ambiguous sentence in "Jewish Autonomous Oblast"

"Politically, it was also considered desirable to create a Soviet Jewish homeland as an ideological alternative to Zionism and the theory put forward by Socialist Zionists such as Ber Borochov that the Jewish Question could be resolved by creating a Jewish territory in Palestine."

So a Soviet Jewish homeland was an alternative to a Jewish homeland in Palestine, and a Jewish homeland in Palestine was proposed by Socialist Zionists? -Pgan002 (talk) 03:16, 21 June 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Confusing sentence in "Jewish Autonomous Oblast"

"By the 1930s, a massive propaganda campaign was underway to induce more Jewish settlers to move there. Some of these ... Other methods bordered on the bizarre. In one instance, leaflets promoting Birobidzhan were dropped from an airplane over a Jewish neighborhood in Belarus."

Why is this bizarre as a propaganda method? -Pgan002 (talk) 03:22, 21 June 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Requested move

The following discussion is an archived discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the move request was: Not moved, consensus is to keep the article at the current title with a section about Israel added. Ucucha 12:07, 21 January 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Proposals for a Jewish state → Proposals to establish a Jewish state outside of Israel — Or a better title, if anything can think of an improvement. Main reason for moving from current title is that the only proposals described in this article are ones that would have been created outside the Land of Israel, such as in Madagascar, British Guyana and the USSR. It doesn't talk at all about the concept of a Homeland for the Jewish people or Zionism. —84.92.117.93 (talk) 21:28, 13 January 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Just placed notices on the Judaism, Israel and Jewish history WikiProjects to try to get feedback for the move. 84.92.117.93 (talk) 18:29, 16 January 2010 (UTC)[reply]

I'd rather see a section added about Israel, with a link to the main article. I think the current title is much better than your proposed change, simply because it does cover everything rather than splitting it all up. All we have to do is make the title appropriate by adding the content. Breein1007 (talk) 00:27, 17 January 2010 (UTC)[reply]

I agree with Breein1007, the current title includes the former and the latter, and is a better choice than the proposed one. --nsaum75^{¡שיחת!‎} 09:19, 17 January 2010 (UTC)[reply]

These sound like good suggestion as well, I'll remove the move request if that;s the concensus. 84.92.117.93 (talk) 15:28, 17 January 2010 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

Ethiopia

In 1938 Mussolini intended:

He would like to solve the Zionist question by transferring the Zionists from Palestine to Ethiopia. Then the Arabs in Palestine would be let alone and international capital would be brought in to develop the Empire.

In 1940:

In England, the Manchester Guardian reported that the Axis powers plan to turn Palestine over to the jurisdiction of the Vatican and transport Palestine's Jewish population to Ethiopia.

Under the plan, said the Guardian, the Pope will care for the holy places in Palestine, let Italy run the country.

Can you find how developed the Italian plans for Jews in Ethiopia were? --Error (talk) 00:55, 26 April 2010 (UTC)[reply]

User:Error: I don't know about "developed plans", but this certainly looks like a notable topic per this remarkably thorough piece by Richard Pankhurst - I guess our article would be called Jewish settlement in Italian East Africa to parallel Jewish settlement in the Japanese Empire.--Pharos (talk) 19:57, 29 July 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Good catch! Your title is right since there is a mention of Somalia, though I would change it to Jewish settlement proposals in Italian East Africa, as there seems that, unlike Shanghai, actual settlement was reduced, but there should be redirects from Jewish settlement In Italian Abyssinia, Jewish settlement in Abyssinia and the like. --Error (talk) 20:58, 31 July 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Cyprus

Anyone thought about the island of Cyprus. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Success123$ (talk • contribs) 19:23, 14 April 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Central America

10 Jewish Homelands Outside Palestine has a map including several of these proposals and mentions Nai Juda in Central America as proposed by Joseph Otmar Hefter. --Error (talk) 00:56, 3 October 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Article is full of original research

Big parts of this article are poorly written, unsourced and full of dubious claims with original research.Tritomex (talk) 03:28, 5 February 2017 (UTC)[reply]

"the corporate right to self-determination" ?

As far as I can tell, "corporate right" is a legal expression that refers to a legal right of a corporation. I don't see any use of it like this. It is also unsourced. Zero^talk 13:21, 9 August 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Weird list entries in other attempts of Jewish self-governance throughout history

Section contains a list of places with high Jewish populations... Does this constitute self-governance? I'm not so sure if being a Jewish mayor in a Jewish town counts... If so, Hampstead, Quebec might qualify as "Jewish self-governance" which seems a bit silly to me. Toomuchcuriosity (talk) 14:52, 20 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]

I cleaned up the section. Please let me know if you would like to see changes to my edits or additional changes to the section. Toomuchcuriosity (talk) 18:46, 26 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]

My apologies for butting in (and for being a newbie Editor on Wikipedia). I was very surprised to find this reference to Lord Moyne had disappeared. There does seem to be evidence in various sources that a member of the British Government made such a proposal (that the aggressor pay) and found support from the Saudis.

https:__www.google.co.uk_books_edition_Mythologies_Without_End_y1AAEAAAQBAJ_hl=en_gbpv=1_dq=Lord_Moyne_Prussia_guns_Saud_pg=PA28_printsec=frontcover?pg=PA28&dq=Lord%20Moyne%20Prussia%20guns%20Saud

https:__www.google.co.uk_books_edition_Studies_in_Contemporary_Jewry_dM_fCwid2aIC_hl=en_gbpv=1_dq=_22lord_moyne_22__22east_prussia_22_pg=PA255_printsec=frontcover?pg=PA255&dq=%22lord%20moyne%22%20%22east%20prussia%22

https://newpol.org/issue_post/jewish-alternatives-zionism/

https://history.stackexchange.com/questions/49063/was-the-option-of-setting-up-a-jewish-state-in-defeated-nazi-germany-ever-consid

...and again, my apologies if this is all rather contentious and I have not fully understood https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Talk_page_guidelines — Preceding unsigned comment added by ITSMjkr (talk • contribs) 16:08, 5 July 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Unnecessary section: Proposals for alternative Jewish homelands and anti-Zionism

This section seems to elevate rhetoric to serious proposals. It is dubious to claim that the statements by Ahmadinejad and Thomas are serious proposals. Saying something like "let Jews make a state in Europe so that they can leave Palestine" is a statement about Jews leaving Palestine, and does not seriously propose the establishment of a Jewish state in Europe. The section considers this rhetoric to amount to serious proposals and bloats the page and possibly violates text-source integrity.

I propose deleting the section. Please let me know whether you support or disagree. Toomuchcuriosity (talk) 19:13, 26 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]

The name of this article

Many of the things on this page are not about a Jewish State at all. They are just about substantial settlements, or in some cases a limited local autonomy. What is a better article name? Zero^talk 04:29, 14 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Missing examples

Argentina is the most prominent example missing. There is some, but not enough, in Jewish Colonisation Association. Another case, that I hadn't heard of until today, was Mesopotamia. See this. Zero^talk 04:34, 14 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

What is the scope of this article?

What a weird article, starting with the lede.: "Jews and their supporters, as well as their detractors and anti-Semites have put forth plans for Jewish states." The Madagascar plan was not a "proposal for a Jewish state." It was to be a concentration camp under the auspices of the Nazi SS after the Jews were ethnically cleansed from the Third Reich. The Jewish "self-governing territory" in Italian East Africa would be overseen as a police state under the Italian fascists -- not a "Jewish state." The Jewish Autonomous Oblast as a "Jewish state"? Should we start Proposals for a Palestinian state and mention the Sinai Peninsula? Of course not.

Other items are various recommendations about where to settle Jewish refugees (e.g. Slattery Report), which would not be "Jewish states" like the modern state of Israel. Then there's a hodgepodge of ancient empires at one point with Jewish heads of state or with Judaism briefly as the state religion (Himyarite Kingdom, etc.) The Fugu Plan is not even real.

What would make sense is an article about alternatives to the Land of Israel as locations for a Jewish state (e.g. Argentina, the Uganda Plan, the Kimberly Plan, etc). Longhornsg (talk) 06:06, 14 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

You are quite correct. Can you suggest a title for such an article? Zero^talk 01:16, 15 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]