Talk:Fuzao

Requested move

The following discussion is an archived discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the move request was: No consensus and also to ensure this and other discussions don't create an inconsistency, a new multi-move request has been setup over at Talk:No Regrets (Faye Wong album)#Requested multi-page move and all editors are highly encouraged to voice your thoughts over there. (non-admin closure) Tiggerjay (talk) 15:06, 28 April 2013 (UTC)

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Restless (Faye Wong album) → ? – Fuzao or fu zao? As for the current title, amount of sources is too little to consider Restless a common name for this Mandarin album. I don't have to go through sources that use different names, do I? Fans translate the Chinese title (浮躁) into various names, but there is no way to accurately translate the title. George Ho (talk) 08:00, 18 April 2013 (UTC)

• Comment - the bizarre fact is there is no biography in English on the world's most famous singer (if you're the most famous singer in China, therefore you are more famous than any western singer). Which means that these RMs are quite reasonable in fishing around for real English titles. But also means providing wp readers with extra handholding. I cannot see how knocking (Faye Wong album) off any of these titles will help anyone find the album. So either Fuzao (Faye Wong album) or leave where is. Edward L. Davis Encyclopedia of Contemporary Chinese Culture 2012 has Restless. In ictu oculi (talk) 09:39, 18 April 2013 (UTC)
  • That encyclopedia must have used modern technology, like Wikipedia. Also, there are no other articles called fuzao or fu zao. This is the only one. --George Ho (talk) 15:46, 18 April 2013 (UTC)
• Comment - This article translated this album as Impatience. --George Ho (talk) 16:13, 18 April 2013 (UTC)
• Support - Fuzao per WP:PINYIN and Teresa Teng Dandan you qing. After a lot of searching there evidently is no English title. In ictu oculi (talk) 01:29, 22 April 2013 (UTC)
• Oppose. WP:NAME says 'On the English Wikipedia, article titles are written using the English language.' WP:NAMINGCRITERIA says the guiding principles are recognizability, naturalness, precision, conciseness and consistency. IMHO "Restless (Faye Wong album)" is good on all these counts, and is actually best for recognizability and naturalness because of usage by fans. WP:COMMONNAME says, 'Wikipedia does not necessarily use the subject's "official" name as an article title; it prefers to use the name that is most frequently used to refer to the subject in English-language reliable sources.' I acknowledge the wide variety of English-language translations used for this album, but sources usually refer to it by one translation or another rather than romanization. As for Dandan youqing, I would move it to Light Exquisite Feelings. – Fayenatic London 13:34, 23 April 2013 (UTC)
  • Ahh... some copy-and-paste comment. I'll tell you something: pre-Internet English translations for this album are either seldom or never used. Why using Internet-based English translations? Those "common names" were used by fans and fansites. There are no agreements to whether any English titles is commonly used by reliable sources. In fact, very little were found in search engines. So we could find printed material that translates this album. For now, I don't see how renaming into or remaining an English title or policies and guidelines helps the case. --George Ho (talk) 03:46, 24 April 2013 (UTC)

Fayentic, your duplicate comment above doesn't really help. MOS:ALBUM may have some problems but this is what it says:

If the album title does not use the Latin alphabet, the article name should be the transliterated form of the title using Latin characters. For example, Vrisko To Logo Na Zo, not Βρίσκω Το Λόγο Να Ζω (the name written in the Greek alphabet) or I Find the Reason to Live (the name translated from Greek into English), and Boku no Miteiru Fūkei, not 僕の見ている風景 or The Scenery I'm Looking At, but Common Jasmin Orange, not Qi li xiang, 七里香, or Seven Mile Fragrance because the English name "Common Jasmin Orange" appears on the album cover along with the Chinese name. The original language title should appear in parentheses (like this) in the opening line of the article following the transliteration.

In ictu oculi (talk) 06:35, 24 April 2013 (UTC)

• I don't accept the remarks about "copy-and-paste" and "duplicate"; it wasn't my idea to start four simultaneous but separate discussions about Wong's albums, and I did tailor what I wrote in each one, e.g. acknowledging the variety of English translations for this one. I looked through WP:NAME in vain for any help about albums, but there was none, and nobody had thought to mention MOS:ALBUM in this discussion. I have now added a link to the latter in Template:Naming conventions to help everybody. – Fayenatic London 11:46, 24 April 2013 (UTC)

• Support Fuzao per MOS:ALBUM, now that I know about that page. – Fayenatic London 11:46, 24 April 2013 (UTC)
  • IMHO that is not a great guideline, but in this case it is probably best to use pinyin because of the wide variety of English translations used in the sources. – Fayenatic London 20:28, 26 April 2013 (UTC)

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page or in a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

Multi-page move

Please see a new multi-move request has been setup over at Talk:No Regrets (Faye Wong album)#Requested multi-page move and all editors are highly encouraged to voice your thoughts over there. Tiggerjay (talk) 15:08, 28 April 2013 (UTC)

Move discussion in progress

There is a move discussion in progress on Talk:No Regrets (Faye Wong album) which affects this page. Please participate on that page and not in this talk page section. Thank you. —RMCD bot 15:14, 28 April 2013 (UTC)

Stand-alone requested move 2

The following discussion is an archived discussion of the proposal. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the proposal was moved to Fuzao. --BDD (talk) 19:08, 3 June 2013 (UTC)

Restless (Faye Wong album) → ? – Even after failed attempts to change the title to pinyin title, I am still not confident that this album should stay as Restless. Fuzao (浮躁; lit. "float mania", according to Bing Translator) would mean many things, like Exasperation, Anxiety, or Impatience. However, if Fuzao (or Fuzao (album)) is not the title that others are favoring in, perhaps choose either Exasperation (album), Anxiety (Faye Wong album), Impatience (album), or another faithful, suitable name. As for common use of either name, amount of sources is scarce, and translated names are rarely used. Recent articles may have used Wikipedia as a translator, so let's not rely on them (yet). George Ho (talk) 07:22, 15 May 2013 (UTC)

• Speedy procedural close discussed at length twice in the last month. -- 65.94.76.126 (talk) 11:45, 15 May 2013 (UTC)
  • The first was closed in favor of multi-move, which then was closed as "no consensus". However, unlike prior requests, I am requesting either Chinese name or English alternative name. --George Ho (talk) 17:13, 15 May 2013 (UTC)
• No objection to Fuzao; there would be no point moving to alternative English translations, as none are more common than Restless. I made three other WP:BOLD album moves yesterday following the closure as "no consensus". This is the only other one that could be justified from the poll there. – Fayenatic London 13:16, 15 May 2013 (UTC)
• Support - this is an unusual case, so many unofficial English names competing, and it is an all Mandarin album. In ictu oculi (talk) 04:43, 3 June 2013 (UTC)

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the proposal. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

Track listing

There was a consensus at Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Albums/Archive 43#Foreign language in track listings that the original script should go in the Notes field (despite the small print which results), and translations in the Extra column.

For the record, an earlier discussion at Wikipedia talk:No original research/Archive 56#Translations into English of album and song titles decided that unofficial translations are acceptable. – Fayenatic London 19:32, 20 January 2014 (UTC)

Title

"Fuzao" The title of this Article is not English! Tunguschan (talk) 14:52, 8 September 2017 (UTC)

Correct, and if you look at the discussions above, you will be able to read the rationale for it. – Fayenatic London 16:54, 9 September 2017 (UTC)

Douban Review

This appears to be an user-generated review as per Wikipedia:Reliable sources/Noticeboard/Archive 313#Douban and not a WP:RS- not sure how it's usable for a contentious claim: However, Restless was received favorably by critics, and is considered her boldest and most artistically coherent effort to date. Is the reviewer a subject-matter-expert? The claim of received favourably critics probably (ideally) require multiple WP:RS backing it up, I found this which is a passing mention stating the album was iconic, so might partially back the received favourably part but not the latter part. Thanks. VickKiang (talk) 03:43, 17 December 2022 (UTC)

Looking into the attribution in the original article on the artist, this text was contributed by anon editors, originally [1] in 2004, rewritten [2] in 2005. So that doesn't really help.

@Lasersharp and George Ho: can you help with this, please? – Fayenatic London 22:08, 18 December 2022 (UTC)

@Fayenatic london: @George Ho: I've boldly removed the Douban source for the reception section (and attributed that statement to The Straits Times. However, I'll try to find a better source for this statement: A Buddhist, Wong weaves teachings of transience and disengagement into the album. These themes can also be found in some of her other albums in the reception section instead of removing it outright, if you find any please ping me. Thanks. VickKiang (talk) 00:00, 19 December 2022 (UTC)