Talk:Shaykh al-Islām

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Requested move 3 January 2016

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the move request was: Not moved for lack of policy based rationale.(non-admin closure) Tiggerjay (talk) 01:12, 28 January 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Shaykh al-Islām → Shaykh al-Islam – I think it is easier to read that way. TheGoldenRatio (talk) 02:30, 3 January 2016 (UTC) --Relisted. Andrewa (talk) 10:55, 11 January 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Relisting comment: There's no opposition so far, but a complete lack of input is not much of a consensus, especially considering the weakness of the rationale. If it's really easier to read I guess that's more recognizable in terms of WP:AT, but can we do better? Andrewa (talk) 10:55, 11 January 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Support, it looks better without diacritics BlueBirdo (talk) 15:05, 11 January 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Oppose – the proposed "easier to read" or "looks better" rationale is not part of WP:CRITERIA. Dicklyon (talk) 03:42, 12 January 2016 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page or in a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

External links modified

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Sources

Narrative Social Structure: Anatomy of the Hadith Transmission Network, 610-1505 "27. Al-Sakhawi (1986b, 14-17) defines it as follows: "Shaykh al-Islam, as inferred from its use as a term among the authorities, is a title attributed to that follower of the book of Allah Most High and the example of His messenger, who possesses the knowl- edge of the principles of the science (of religion], has plunged deep into the different views of the scholars, has become able to extract the legal evidences from the texts, and has understood the rational and the transmitted proofs at a satisfactory level." Sakhawi traces the evolution of the concept and lists the very few scholars who have been given this title."[1] The The Princeton Encyclopedia of Islamic Political Thought which we've used adds "The Egyptian historian and ha- ith expert Muhammad h. "AM al-Rahman al-Sakhawi complained in the 15thcentury that it had been overused and applied to many who did not actually deserve it".[2]

By the way, shouldn't we put the text bit of the Ottoman section back with the rest of the article? It seems disconnected. Doug Weller talk 18:05, 10 July 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Current usage

I've checked all the citations for the Current section and could not find a single RS reporting on current usage of this term. Hence there's nothing left. Encyclopedic entries for Skaykh al-Islam also don't say anything about use of this term in recent times. Until we find some RSs about current usage, there's no value of listing people who have been called "Shaykh al-Islam" by someone somewhere, because it's not clear that a list of such persons would be more meaningful than, say, a list of people called "virtuoso", or than discussing Michael Jackson in King on account of him being called "king of pop". Eperoton (talk) 14:00, 23 July 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Requested move 11 October 2018

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the move request was: Restore to status quo ante without prejudice to further discussions. This RM is seeking to overturn an undiscussed move when there has been no sudden change. It is better to have the article back at the original location before discussions take place. Timrollpickering 10:21, 11 October 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Sheikh ul-Islam → Shaykh al-Islam – This spelling reflects the general Arabic-derived spelling found in academic sources, as used for the titles of the two encyclopedic entries we're citing here. The "ul-" spelling is also common in RSs, but it reflects the Ottoman Turkish version of the term and is only used when discussing it in the Ottoman context. Hence it isn't appropriate for a general article on the subject, though we can use it in the Ottoman section. The article was titled Shaykh al-Islām, until it was moved by a subsequently blocked sock and now it can't be easily moved back. Eperoton (talk) 00:22, 11 October 2018 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page or in a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

A Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for deletion

The following Wikimedia Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for deletion:

Hussain Ahmad Madani 3.jpg

Participate in the deletion discussion at the nomination page. —Community Tech bot (talk) 19:29, 14 October 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Earliest recorded use of "Shaykh al-Islam"

One of the earliest recorded instances of its use is by Imam Ahmad ibn Hanbal (d. 241 AH), who referred to Ahmad ibn Yunus (d. 227 AH) as "Shaykh al-Islam". This is narrated by al-Fadl ibn Ziyad in al-Fasawī's (d. 277 AH) al-Ma'rifah wa al-Tarikh (p. 180). As Ahmad ibn Yunus died in 227 AH, this places the usage of the title firmly by 227 AH at the latest.

He said, "I also heard Ahmad when a man asked him, 'From whom do you recommend we write hadiths?' He replied, 'Go to Ahmad ibn Yunus, for he is Shaykh al-Islam.'"
— al-Fasawī, Yaʿqūb Ibn Sufyān. Kitāb Al-Maʿrifah Wa-al-Tārīkh. Edited by Akram Ḍiyāʼ Al-ʿUmarī, vol. 1, Matba’at al-Irshad, 1974.

«قال: وسمعت أحمد وقال له رجل: عمن ترى نكتب الحديث؟ فقال له: اخرج إلى أحمد بن يونس فإنه شيخ الإسلام»
— ص180 - كتاب المعرفة والتاريخ ت العمري ط العراق

167.86.179.183 (talk) 01:27, 5 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]