Talk:Sia Furler

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Requested move 1[edit]

The following discussion is an archived discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the move request was: no consensus. Jenks24 (talk) 12:25, 5 June 2014 (UTC)

Sia FurlerSia (singer) – Two of her songs already have just her first name in the brackets (Clap Your Hands (Sia song) and You've Changed (Sia song)), and it looks like there'll be third soon - she even ignores her surname on her official site Unreal7 (talk) 22:45, 23 May 2014 (UTC)

  • Keep See discussions above: typically as a lead singer Furler uses her first name but as a songwriter or producer she uses both names. The two singles/songs can be re-directed to "XXXX (Sia Furler song)" per existing article for "Chandelier (Sia Furler song)" and similar to album article, Best Of... (Sia Furler album). Furthermore, using (singer) as the disambiguation is too restrictive for Furler's career activities.shaidar cuebiyar (talk) 07:33, 26 May 2014 (UTC)
  • Don't move – agree with everything shaidar cuebiyar said. Melonkelon (talk) 07:42, 26 May 2014 (UTC)
  • Don't move. Her name isn't "Sia (Singer)", nobody reading the wiki will seach for that. If there are other people called Sia then a surname is the natural way to distinguish between them. Sairp (talk) 11:22, 29 May 2014 (UTC)
    • I never said her name was "Sia (singer)" - and as for "If there are other people called Sia then a surname is the natural way to distinguish between them" - I don't believe anyone's searching for Adele Adkins or Robyn Carlsson. Unreal7 (talk) 10:13, 30 May 2014 (UTC)
      • Why do you want to move the page to something which is not her name? Sairp (talk) 09:30, 3 June 2014 (UTC)
  • Support, but would consider alternative disambiguation. Whilst Sia may be her marketing name, she would use her legal name for songwriting and could for other items .i.e. Richard Starkey, Prince Nelson, Katheryn Hudson. If she is is trading as a mononym then WP should reflect that as WP:COMMONNAME, because others have that name, then it needs to be disambiguated. If (singer) isn't good enough, does anybody have an alternative? --Richhoncho (talk) 18:00, 31 May 2014 (UTC)
  • Don't move. This is an encyclopedia, not a pop magazine. She may currently style herself as Sia, but her name is Sia Furler. With the possible exceptions of Cher, Madonna and (TAFKA) Prince, who established those identities over many years and to the exclusion of any others, we should refer to musical artists here by their real names. Sia is not yet in that league. Dwpaul Talk 22:26, 31 May 2014 (UTC)
Also, consider Elvis Presley, who was consistently (uniquely) known as Elvis during his career and released recordings under a mononym, but whose primary article here uses his full name. Dwpaul Talk 22:32, 31 May 2014 (UTC)
Response to Dwpaul. Presley is apples and pears and as I have done, he is also known as Presley, The King and probably a few other "names". He was always marketed (i.e. known as) Elvis Presley, but as Unreal7 points out above, WP has Adele and Robyn amongst others. Neither of these have been established "over many years." and as far as I am aware both articles have always been at the mononym. For me the deciding point is the name the singer is known as, and it appears that is Sia As Sia, she is certainly not primarytopic so a disambiguator has to be used, the question is which one and why? Which ever one is chosen, it is not the name she is known by, it's an artifice because not every article can sit at it's non-disambiguated place. Hence my support for the move. --Richhoncho (talk) 08:04, 1 June 2014 (UTC)
Re: "[Elvis] was always marketed (i.e. known as) Elvis Presley": Really? Guess you had to be there. Take a look at these covers (all contemporary marketing); see "Presley" anywhere? [1][2][3][4][5]. In any case, I think you missed my point. My point is that regardless of what her handlers/producers/publisher would like to think, Sia Furler has not achieved the enduring and deep name recognition and cultural significance of the other exceptions I mentioned, and until and unless she does, she should not be considered for mononymous treatment in this or any encyclopedia. Nor should any other artist receive this treatment here just because some industry executive orders it. It needs to be earned. Dwpaul Talk 17:58, 1 June 2014 (UTC)
My point was Presley was marketed as Elvis Presley, whereas Sia Furler is marketed as Sia. That's why references to Presley is misleading not relevant to discussion. Cheers. --Richhoncho (talk) 18:57, 2 June 2014 (UTC)
Yes "WP has Adele and Robyn amongst others". But we can not move this page to "Sia" because there is another page there. So we must disambiguate. We could add "Furler", which is her real name, or we could add " (singer)" which is a suffix made up by wiki editors. Nobody else calls her "Sia (singer)". Lots of people call her "Sia Furler". Sairp (talk) 09:27, 3 June 2014 (UTC)
You could argue that Sia is primarytopic. Those that know her as Sia may not appreciate Sia Furler is the same person, but in all likelihood would identify Sia (singer) as the page they are looking for. Equally there is no reason why you can't suggest another disambiguator. --Richhoncho (talk) 11:06, 3 June 2014 (UTC)
  • Keep Move as Sia is known mononymously. I was just about to start an RM for this until I found one already in place.--Launchballer 19:45, 2 June 2014 (UTC)
OK, just so we're clear, is your !vote to Keep intending to support a move? Because I interpret keep to mean that the article should be kept as it is (and I think that's what the other keep was advocating). Dwpaul Talk 19:55, 2 June 2014 (UTC)
Yes I meant move, I've just come from an AfD.--Launchballer 19:59, 2 June 2014 (UTC)
Thanks, I took the liberty. Dwpaul Talk 20:09, 2 June 2014 (UTC)
Appreciated.--Launchballer 20:15, 2 June 2014 (UTC)
  • Point of information. Here is another way to look at this:
Cher, Adele, Madonna and the estate of Elvis all applied for, paid for and received US trademark protection for the use of those mononyms in the sales and marketing of entertainment services. In effect, they own the legal right to be "primary topic" in the US marketplace when and where those mononyms are used. Sia Furler, on the other hand, only applied last February for similar rights to use Sia in trade. Her application status (as of just late last month) is approved for publication in the USPTO Official Gazette, which means only that her paperwork is in order; the merits of the application will not even be considered by the USPTO until it has been published and opportunity has been given for objection. Part of the approval process will include a consideration of whether she has adequately used the mark to the exclusion of others (and whether others have done so to a degree that would make the proposed mark ineligible).
I will not !vote again, but I suggest that this supports the notion that the proposed move of this article would be premature, and that it would in effect substitute our judgment for an established legal process for determining who should possess the right (in the US) to use a mononym for trade in a particular industry. (The article here could perhaps even be used as evidence in that process.) Dwpaul Talk 14:33, 4 June 2014 (UTC)
P.S. - Prince's trademark registration for Prince was cancelled in 1996, renewed and cancelled again in 2004 due to failure to file renewal documents, and Swedish artist Robin Carlsson never filed in the US for a trademark on Robyn. Dwpaul Talk 14:59, 4 June 2014 (UTC)
Thanks for that, but you have missed the point. Are you now saying we should move Prince (musician) to Prince Nelson because he doesn't own his own Trade Mark? You can raise a reasonable argument to oppose the move, but Trade Mark Legislation is not it. Cheers. --Richhoncho (talk) 17:33, 4 June 2014 (UTC)
No, I'm (obviously) not suggesting we need to revise every other mononymously-named article on Wikipedia based on this, nor that this should be the only standard used to name articles for musical recording artists. I'm pretty sure I said above that this information supports the position that it would be premature to move this article, and I stand by that position. And yes, the fact that a given artist has successfully trademarked a mononym (or not) should indeed have relevance in naming articles about them here. Dwpaul Talk 17:51, 4 June 2014 (UTC)
Plus, evidence like artwork should be ignored? That makes no sense either. --Richhoncho (talk) 20:05, 4 June 2014 (UTC)
Rich, I didn't say anything about ignoring anything. Dwpaul Talk 20:41, 4 June 2014 (UTC)

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page or in a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

Requested move 2[edit]

The following discussion is an archived discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the move request was: Not moved. EdJohnston (talk) 05:07, 14 June 2014 (UTC)

Sia FurlerSia (musician) – Per WP:COMMONNAME, the name Sia is more suitable because Sia has had a musical career and often used her first name for all of her releases. She even used the name for her Facebook account and her official website. Of course as a songwriter, Sia's credits will be kept as Sia Furler, but with her music releases, Sia is more suitable. Simon (talk) 02:19, 7 June 2014 (UTC)

  • Oppose, for the same reasons I articulated when, for all intents, the same request was made just two weeks ago. Dwpaul Talk 03:38, 7 June 2014 (UTC)
Among many other problems with your methodology, you are assuming that every Google™ hit on Sia + musician and Sia + singer refers to Sia Furler. This is demonstrably false (look at your results), as there are other musicians and singers (and/or people talking about musicians and/or singers) named Sia, and/or other meanings of either word. The second returns results, for example, pertaining to Isaac Bashevis Singer, and to rock music photographer Joe Sia at the Singer Bowl in 1968. In Italian, sia is a subjunctive present-tense form of essere, "to be, to exist", so nearly every Italian-language reference to any singer and/or musician could have been captured. Only in a search for Sia + Furler can nearly all the results be reasonably assumed to have something to do with Sia Furler, and when I do so in the US Google (versus Vietnamese) I get about 1,260,000 results. Also note that many articles about Sia Furler contained in your first two example searches likely also contain her last name, so are supersets of the latter example search. Dwpaul Talk 19:45, 7 June 2014 (UTC)
  • Support - as per my initial request above. Unreal7 (talk) 12:22, 7 June 2014 (UTC)
  • Oppose, her surname is used on a fairly regular basis, and I think that keeping it in the title is better disambiguation than having a parenthetical disambiguator. WikiRedactor (talk) 13:32, 7 June 2014 (UTC)
  • Oppose Similar request just concluded as "no consensus." Immediate reapplication is inappropriate, could be considered "gaming the system." Xoloz (talk) 17:04, 7 June 2014 (UTC)
You have noticed that Wikipedia is inconsistent. This is not a revelation. ;-) Dwpaul Talk 02:13, 8 June 2014 (UTC)
Support. It is patently obvious to one and all she is known as "Sia." It is also patently obvious her article cannot be at "Sia." Not her fault some editors have an absurd dislike of disambiguators, even though we have no choice but to use them! --Richhoncho (talk) 16:25, 10 June 2014 (UTC)
  • Oppose per WP:NATURALDIS. No need for parenthetical disambiguation then we can use natural one.--Staberinde (talk) 18:32, 10 June 2014 (UTC)

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page or in a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

Requested move 3[edit]

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the move request was: consensus to move the page, per the discussion below. Although the question of the precision of the disambiguator remains unresolved, there was broad agreement to move the article away from natural disambiguation in order to reflect common usage. Dekimasuよ! 20:20, 11 November 2014 (UTC)

Sia FurlerSia (musician) – As per WP:COMMONNAME, just Sia would be most suitable. I'm sorry to bring this up again, but despite writing credits, she is just known mononymously as Sia. Most artists use their real names on writing credits in the first place anyway, and she has never been credited as Sia Furler on any music releases. Billboard Man (talk) 17:07, 4 November 2014 (UTC)

  • I think I have to agree with this move. I know and love Sia, so I can easily recall her last name, but I imagine most people have never even heard her last name. ---Another Believer (Talk) 17:09, 4 November 2014 (UTC)
  • Support Sia Furler successfully registered Sia as a trademark for "Entertainment services in the nature of live visual and audio performances by musicians", etc., effective October 7, 2014, so I withdraw my objection to a previous move request that Sia Furler did not (at that time) have the legal right to use Sia as a trade name. Dwpaul Talk 18:21, 4 November 2014 (UTC)
  • Support - Funny enough, I was just looking at this page yesterday and lamenting that it was probably too soon after the most recent discussion to propose it again. But, it's been done, so I'm supporting it. Sia (musician) is overwhelmingly the most common name but is also perhaps more importantly the most recognizable name. The proposed title is easily understood by anyone searching for the subject to be on the subject, the current is not, to the extent that people who don't know her last name will more likely be confused than not. To the extent that, if you asked someone about Sia they would know who you are talking about if you know this subject, but a question about "Sia Furler" would probably lead to a shrug from anyone except her die hard fans. Natural disambiguation is good, but there's no reason to prefer it if it is actively harming the page identification. --Yaksar (let's chat) 20:21, 4 November 2014 (UTC)
  • Support per WP:COMMONNAME - Everyone generally only knows her first name and since 9 times out of 10 she goes by her first name It makes sense to move imho. –Davey2010(talk) 20:41, 4 November 2014 (UTC)
  • Support - per nom. Unreal7 (talk) 20:46, 4 November 2014 (UTC)
  • Question - why isn't the proposal to Sia (singer)? In ictu oculi (talk) 02:13, 5 November 2014 (UTC)
  • Oh, right? She is primarily a vocalist and a songwriter. ---Another Believer (Talk) 02:34, 5 November 2014 (UTC)
  • Doesn't particularly matter to me which one is chosen, but perhaps "musician" is preferred because its broader scope could include her songwriting and composing, which make up a significant portion of her notable work?--Yaksar (let's chat) 05:21, 7 November 2014 (UTC)
  • Oppose per previous discussions. There are no new important reasons for this move, however the same reasons for not moving still apply. According to WP:NATURALDIS, neither (musician) nor (singer) is better than Furler as a disambiguator.shaidar cuebiyar (talk) 01:06, 7 November 2014 (UTC)
  • Natural disambiguation is certainly nice when possible, but it isn't preferred in cases where the common name is so overwhelmingly the common name, to the extent that the natural one is likely not even recognized by the majority of people that know of the subject. Thus, we have lots and lots of pages of people who are disambiguated even though they have perfectly natural middle names that most people don't know of, or even cases like Prince Rogers Nelson where a natural disambiguation does exist but is obviously not preferred. --Yaksar (let's chat) 05:21, 7 November 2014 (UTC)

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page or in a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.


Simon (talk) 14:13, 9 January 2015 (UTC)

Requested move 4[edit]

Move request: Move to "Sia (singer)"[edit]

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the move request was: not moved. The argument for a more restrictive disambiguator has not gained consensus. DrKiernan (talk) 18:31, 14 March 2015 (UTC)

  • Sia (musician) → Sia (singer) – A more specific and WP:CONCISE description than "musician". Sia is also more known as a singer. --Relisted. DrKiernan (talk) 12:32, 28 February 2015 (UTC) Snuggums (talk / edits) 01:54, 31 January 2015 (UTC)
  • Support. Although she is also a song-writer, her main profession is singing, especially, lately with her most popular release. I think singer would apply better here rather than musician. — Tomíca(T2ME) 12:36, 31 January 2015 (UTC)
  • Support per the nominator. IPadPerson (talk) 13:32, 31 January 2015 (UTC)
  • Support proposed nomination; if we're going to use parenthetical dab, we might as well make it more concise and specific if we can. Sia could also be considered as a primary topic. (After all, we've managed to do it with even more common names, such as Adele, and the entire first page of a Google search was results pertaining to Furler.) –Chase (talk / contribs) 22:52, 31 January 2015 (UTC) Now opposed; see my comment in #Comments dated 20:36, 4 March 2015 (UTC). –Chase (talk / contribs)
  • Support, and comment "Musician" implies she is known for playing instruments (which she isn't notable for), and sources seem to notice her for her singing parts. I deleted the Support and Oppose headings because it sounds more like a poll, which are banned in RMs. Hill Crest's WikiLaser! (BOOM!) 03:51, 27 February 2015 (UTC)
  • Oppose - Because she's not just a singer but she's also a songwriter and composer so having "musician" makes IMHO far more sense here... –Davey2010Talk 02:59, 1 February 2015 (UTC)
  • Although I agree with Chasewc91 - I'd support moving to Sia and moving Sia to dab as that sounds even better... –Davey2010Talk 03:01, 1 February 2015 (UTC) Struck as Support below proposal instead. –Davey2010Talk 15:39, 10 February 2015
  • Oppose per Davey2010. The subject of this article is also known for being a songwriter for some of Rihanna's songs, and the notability for this happened prior to becoming notable as a singer. Steel1943 (talk) 21:22, 1 February 2015 (UTC)
  • Also, I am neutral on the above-mentioned primary topic claim of this subject. My opinion might change if a discussion happens in regards to moving this article directly to Sia so that I can assess the opinions of other editors in regards to that claim. Steel1943 (talk) 21:25, 1 February 2015 (UTC)
  • Sia was notable long before writing for Rihanna or other artists. She was not as popular as she is today, but she was still notable as a singer. –Chase (talk / contribs) 05:31, 2 February 2015 (UTC)
  • Oppose – Read previous move nominations: Furler is not just a singer, in fact she's not just a musician. My preference was for Sia Furler per WP:NATURALDIS but this was not supported by sufficient editors. As a dab, Sia (musician) is better than the overly limited Sia (singer), the latter ignores her songwriting and record producing aspects.shaidar cuebiyar (talk) 21:48, 2 February 2015 (UTC)
  • Oppose Sia is not just a singer but is a musician/record producer as well. Sia (singer) is a fairly restrictive definition of this performer. I disagree with the proposals above that it be moved to Sia, as that article is correctly disambiguated with numerous other terms. Dan arndt (talk) 04:07, 9 February 2015 (UTC)
  • Oppose Singer would be appropriate if all she did was sing. But she doesn't. Musician is accurate. Nevermore27 (talk) 04:32, 2 March 2015 (UTC)
  • Oppose as the subject is not just a vocalist (and because I'm tired of the continual move requests concerning this page – let's leave it alone for six months). Dwpaul Talk 04:40, 2 March 2015 (UTC)
  • Weakest possible support, it's not that important, either disambiguator is acceptable. But suggest when this RM and the one below both close, one way or another, we then give it a break for at least six months. Andrewa (talk) 06:44, 8 March 2015 (UTC)

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page or in a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

Another request: Move to "Sia"[edit]

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the move request was: not moved. The argument to drop the disambiguator has not gained consensus. DrKiernan (talk) 18:35, 14 March 2015 (UTC)

Move to Sia - Honestly speaking, she is the primary topic for just "Sia". Sooner or later, this article will be moved there. So I don't see the point in moving the article to "Sia (singer)", but instead propose a move to just "Sia". --Relisted. DrKiernan (talk) 12:32, 28 February 2015 (UTC) MaRAno FAN 12:49, 3 February 2015 (UTC)

*Move to Sia per and MaranoFan - CookieMonster755 (talk) 05:15, 7 February 2015 (UTC).

I tweaked my argument a little bit. George Ho (talk) 19:13, 8 February 2015 (UTC)
  • Move to Sia. I would support this. ---Another Believer (Talk) 05:17, 7 February 2015 (UTC)
  • Support original nomination - She is not primary topic of "Sia". There are other Sias. --George Ho (talk) 01:38, 8 February 2015 (UTC) Move back to Sia Furler per WP:NCP#Single name. Her surname, Furler, has been fairly often used by most many news articles. --George Ho (talk) 01:41, 8 February 2015 (UTC)
  • She is known more by "Sia" and per WP:COMMONNAME Sia is more suitable ("Wikipedia does not necessarily use the subject's "official" name as an article title; it prefers to use the name that is most frequently used to refer to the subject in English-language reliable sources. This includes usage in the sources used as references for the article" – just like Beyoncé in lieu of Beyoncé Knowles). (talk) 15:08, 8 February 2015 (UTC)
  • Regardless, the article is disambiguated by a term instead of a natural surname. --George Ho (talk) 17:32, 8 February 2015 (UTC)
  • Because it was decided, based on her artistic output, that most people do not know her as "Sia Furler", thus rendering the natural disambiguation useless. (To my knowledge, she has only used her surname in songwriting credits, where full names are generally used.) –Chase (talk / contribs) 21:16, 8 February 2015 (UTC)
  • Comment Check out her first album, OnlySee (1997). Also uses Furler for production work and other attributions.shaidar cuebiyar (talk) 21:58, 8 February 2015 (UTC)
  • Oppose move to Sia. There are other people known as Sia and I see no reason to disadvantage readers looking for other Sias. If there is consensus to move to any disambiguator I support the majority. --Richhoncho (talk) 01:54, 8 February 2015 (UTC)
Just the fact that "There are other Sias" doesn't at all rule out Sia (Furler) as the primary topic. The thing is that most of the readers are definitely looking for this Sia. It would confuse, more than help, people to be directed to the disambig page when they are looking for this page. Sia Koroma received 283, Sia Figiel received 371, Sia Berkeley received 564, Beau Sia received 144. Whereas Sia Furler, received 78856 views in the last 30 days. Also, she is the only one known by a mononym. I could go on and on but I believe I have made my point. MaRAno FAN 12:31, 8 February 2015 (UTC)
I've never heard of "Sia" until now. The time is too early to make her a primary topic. Probably an insect Sia or a mythical God "Sia" is more of a long-term than some musician herself. --George Ho (talk) 17:25, 8 February 2015 (UTC)
Likewise, I've never heard of the "sia" insect or the Sia god until looking at the Sia page. Ignorance, however, is not an excuse for disservicing readers. The insect article received 536 views in the last 90 days, the article about the village in Cyprus received 450, and the god's article 3,357; meanwhile, the singer's article received over 1 million views. (Other topics on the dabpage are not known simply as "Sia" or use the "SIA" acronym, which should remain a redirect to the dabpage.) Furler's article outperforms the insect, god, and village articles combined by a factor of over 250. The stats show that there is a 99.6% chance a reader searching for "Sia" is looking for the singer. Is this something we should ignore? –Chase (talk / contribs) 21:25, 8 February 2015 (UTC)
  • Support move to Sia - Like Beyonce, Adele, Cher and Rihanna - They're all known by there first names, I can't see why this should be any different...., I appreciate the sources call her "Sia Furler"... but we don't nor I'd imagine does any her fans so per COMMONNAME I say Support. –Davey2010Talk 15:39, 10 February 2015
  • Comment Another significant example is Beck, a recent Grammy Award winner. (talk) 03:15, 11 February 2015 (UTC)
  • Oppose "Sia" WP:RECENTISM only recently has she become high profile. -- (talk) 06:37, 15 February 2015 (UTC)
  • She has been accredited as "Sia" since her album Healing Is Difficult in 2001. (talk) 07:36, 15 February 2015 (UTC)
  • That has nothing to do with anything. "Sia" is an article title, not the person. She has not become high profile until recently, whatever her stagename has been. "Sia (singer)" is also an aritcle title, which would also fit with her stagename, but it is NOT the same article title as "Sia". -- (talk) 03:24, 16 February 2015 (UTC)
  • Support as the primary topic for "Sia" -- (talk) 12:10, 17 February 2015 (UTC)
  • Support per my comment above –Chase (talk / contribs) 06:36, 21 February 2015 (UTC)
  • Oppose as per Sting (musician) - by whatever name she is know is not relevant; this is simply done to avoid disambiguation. She needs to be identified as such, so people can arrive at the right page. It's not a reflection on her profession or the wide variety of her creative output. The infobox and article itself is for all that. Karst (talk) 09:43, 21 February 2015 (UTC)
  • Oppose As you can see by the actual "Sia" page, there are multiple and wide-ranging topics that go by the name Sia, not least of which is a foreign city, several acronyms and a god. I would not suggest that "Blue (Joni Mitchell album)" be moved to "Blue (album)" simply because it is the most famous of those options. It's improper. She's not the only, or more important Sia. Nevermore27 (talk) 04:36, 2 March 2015 (UTC)
  • Oppose as "Sia (musician)" is perfectly adequate. (And because I'm tired of the continual move requests concerning this page – let's leave it alone for six months.) Dwpaul Talk 04:40, 2 March 2015 (UTC)
  • Oppose and let's have a moratorium on RMs for this page for at least six months. Let the other open one close, one way or another, then give it a break. It's not all that important. Andrewa (talk) 06:41, 8 March 2015 (UTC)
  • Oppose "Sia", I'd prefer Sia Furler as per WP:NATURALDIS, but Sia (musician) is better than Sia and also forcing current Sia content into Sia (disambiguation). I also agree with the "leave it alone" sentiment re:RMs for this article.shaidar cuebiyar (talk) 21:33, 9 March 2015 (UTC)


  • Comment I think that musician may be a better description of a singer/songwriter than musician. GregKaye 07:55, 31 January 2015 (UTC)
  • Not exactly sure what you are trying to say Snuggums (talk / edits) 07:58, 31 January 2015 (UTC)
  • I believe GregKaye is trying to say that the more broad "musician" disambiguator better reflects the fact that she is known not only for singing, but also writing songs for herself and others. (Correct me if I'm wrong, Greg.) However, I think the argument is flawed, as she is better known as a singer/performer than a behind-the-scenes hitmaker for Flo Rida, Christina Aguilera, et al., and is not known for using instruments other than her voice. –Chase (talk / contribs) 22:52, 31 January 2015 (UTC)
  • Comment my first preference is moving back to Sia Furler per WP:NATURALDIS, that said I also oppose current move request as subject's notability isn't limited to singing.--Staberinde (talk) 16:25, 9 February 2015 (UTC)
    But she's never referred to as Sia Furler, only Sia. Unreal7 (talk) 10:33, 10 February 2015 (UTC)
  • Comment The only music release that has been marketed as Sia Furler is OnlySee (National Library of Australia). She also used "Sia Furler" in songwriting and production credits, which is a smaller aspect compared to her music career (all of her albums except the aforementioned album are released under the name Sia). Furthermore, she has successfully registered Sia as a trademark, so there are no reasons to move back to Sia Furler. (talk) 10:47, 10 February 2015 (UTC)
  • WP:NATURAL advises us to "choose an alternative name that the subject is also commonly called in English reliable sources, albeit not as commonly as the preferred-but-ambiguous title." Thus, the move to "Sia (musician)" should never have occurred in the first place. It is for this reason that I now completely oppose the move to Sia (singer), maintain support for Sia per my previous comments, and if neither then move back to Sia Furler. –Chase (talk / contribs) 20:36, 4 March 2015 (UTC)

Relisting comment Article view stats have been provided to argue for primary topic, but there are about 60k page views for SIA. So, the disambiguation page at Sia (which is for both Sia and SIA) needs to be considered more thoroughly and carefully than has hitherto been the case in this discussion. Also, there has been no notification at Talk:Sia of this requested move, but all talk pages affected by the move should have been notified. Consequently, I am relisting this for further discussion. DrKiernan (talk) 12:32, 28 February 2015 (UTC)

  • weak oppose to all. A writer of songs is a musician I guess. I can't see the point of the change. What is a sia? As far as I can see, the disambiguation helps. GregKaye 18:21, 28 February 2015 (UTC)
  • Re:SIA - WP:DIFFCAPS applies. "SIA" would obviously remain a redirect to the dab page, and since those 60k are searching for it in all-caps, they wouldn't be affected. As for anyone else, the singer's article would obviously have a link to the dab page in a hatnote. –Chase (talk / contribs) 17:23, 1 March 2015 (UTC)

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page or in a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

Gay or Bisexual or Pansexual?[edit]

Ok reading this article is states that Sia is gay, but if you define gay (homosexual) it is "sexually attracted to people of one's own sex." Im no expert in secuality talks... but isnt she Pansexual? she just married a guy Erik

Reference 71 from the article qouted her "Before I was actually successful I'd always said I've always dated boys and girls and anything in between. I don't care what gender you are, it's about people. I didn't just recently open up, I just recently got famous! I've always been... well, flexible is the word I would use.""

Pansexual: not limited in sexual choice with regard to biological sex, gender, or gender identity. — Preceding unsigned comment added by (talkcontribs) 23:48, 9 February 2015

No, no, no, no, no. MOS:IDENTITY says: "Disputes over how to refer to a person or group are addressed by Wikipedia content policies, such as those on verifiability." Correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't believe any reliable source refers to Sia as pansexual, nor has she explicitly identified as such. She has identified as bisexual and reliable sources have described her as such as well, so that is what we will use. –Chase (talk / contribs) 20:48, 5 March 2015 (UTC)

Requested move 5[edit]

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the move request was: Move. Cúchullain t/c 01:25, 6 April 2015 (UTC)

Sia (musician)Sia Furler – Despite the timing of this RM, this is not for either of the requests above that just failed to gain consensus. This is a request for a move back to natural disambiguation. NATURAL says to "choose an alternative name that the subject is also commonly called in English reliable sources, albeit not as commonly as the preferred-but-ambiguous title." Parenthetical disambiguation should only be used "if natural disambiguation is not possible." Although the subject is most commonly referred to in sources by her mononym, she is occasionally referred to as Sia Furler: Billboard, Sydney Morning Herald, Daily Mail, New York Times, etc. Additionally, she uses the name Sia Furler in writing credits for other artists (a notable aspect of her career), and her debut album OnlySee was released under her full name.

Therefore, the move to "Sia (musician)" should have never taken place. The discussion there was mainly based on WP:COMMONNAME; I'm not arguing that "Sia" is not the subject's most common name, but as mentioned, Wikipedia prefers natural disambiguation to parenthetical disambiguation where possible. And using natural disambiguation will spare us silly wars over whether "musician" or "singer" is the better disambiguator (see the convoluted last RM). –Chase (talk / contribs) 22:10, 14 March 2015 (UTC)

  • Move Despite the fact that I'm sick and tired of the continual RMs concerning this article, I support per nom's comments. Dwpaul Talk 22:13, 14 March 2015 (UTC)
  • Move (actually Return). I agree with Chase's proposal and with Dwpaul's sentiments: I'm also s & t of RM's here. My reasons for Sia Furler have been expressed repeatedly above.shaidar cuebiyar (talk) 23:48, 16 March 2015 (UTC)
  • Move - I support Chase's statement on the matter. Return it to the original title. CookieMonster755 (talk) 04:58, 17 March 2015 (UTC)
  • Oppose Read my comment above as well as similar comments at the requested move of Beyoncé. (talk) 05:06, 17 March 2015 (UTC)
  • Your comments above cite COMMONNAME, which as noted in the proposal is not relevant here. No one is disputing that "Sia" is the subject's common name. However, per the previous discussions we cannot have the article title at Sia, thus disambiguation is necessary. NATURAL says that natural disambiguation can be used even when not the common name and is preferred to parenthetical disambiguation. (And as the previous RMs have shown, no one can agree on what the best parenthetical disambiguator is for Sia.)

    Also, please note that Beyoncé and Adele are the primary topics and their article titles do not require any sort of disambiguation. This does not apply to Sia. –Chase (alternate account) (talk / alt contribs / main contribs) 18:56, 17 March 2015 (UTC)
  • One more point is that Adele's primary topic is not about the singer. — (talk) 14:20, 19 March 2015 (UTC)
  • You're completely missing the point. We cannot have the article at Sia – there is no consensus that she is the primary topic. Thus, disambiguation is necessary and Wikipedia policy says that natural disambiguation is preferred to parenthetical. Please go back and read the OP. And what do you mean Adele's primary topic is not about the singer? Have you been to Adele lately? –Chase (alternate account) (talk / alt contribs / main contribs) 16:16, 19 March 2015 (UTC)
  • I did not request this be moved to Sia in this discussion. (talk) 05:55, 20 March 2015 (UTC)
  • The arguments just seem to be going around in circles and the same people appear to be involved in the discussion. It just signals that no consensus will be reached again, just like the previous requests. IMHO this just goes against common sense. Karst (talk) 19:46, 17 March 2015 (UTC)
  • Consensus can be reached if one side provides more valid arguments than the other. In this case, those who support this move back it up with the article titles policy's preference for natural disambiguation to parenthetical disambiguation. Whereas the opposition cites COMMONNAME, another aspect of AT – however, that is flawed as the proposed move to "Sia Furler" is purely for the purpose of disambiguation on an article that is already disambiguated. (There has been no consensus to make Furler the primary topic for "Sia", so some form of dab is currently necessary.) No valid argument has been raised as to why we should ignore the preference for natural disambiguation. –Chase (alternate account) (talk / alt contribs / main contribs) 19:05, 20 March 2015 (UTC)
  • Consensus has changed in the past. There were two requested moves to Sia (musician), only the second of which was successful, so consensus could change back. ekips39 (talk) 21:15, 24 March 2015 (UTC)
  • Oppose - For god sake can we stop with the requests?, The third fourth time was bad enough ..... Consensus is to keep it at this title so we should leave it at that and if anyone's unhappy then re-request in a year or 2 ..... Requesting again and again won't help. –Davey2010Talk 22:01, 18 March 2015 (UTC)
  • My argument's based on the fact there's been too many requests here and only in November this was moved to this title - Surely you can see it's disruptive for everyone to keep requesting a move ?, Yup can consensus can change but let's be honest here it won't...., In a year or 2 it might and who knows I may even support then but IMHO for now these are all too soon. –Davey2010Talk 23:21, 18 March 2015 (UTC)
  • We are indeed destined to deadlock without consensus again if respondents continue to respond to proposals other than the one being discussed here (such as a move to undisambiguated Sia, which is not an option), which many seem to be doing. Dwpaul Talk 16:49, 19 March 2015 (UTC)
  • Oppose - she is widely known as Sia - not Sia Furler. Unreal7 (talk) 13:58, 19 March 2015 (UTC)
    • I am fine with either Sia, Sia (singer) or Sia (musician). But she is not known as Sia Furler, only Sia. Unreal7 (talk) 16:07, 24 March 2015 (UTC)
      • Please read the OP again for sources that refer to her as "Sia Furler". It may not be the most common usage of her name, but it's common enough that NATURAL would apply. Brandy Norwood is more commonly known as Brandy yet we have her article at her full name, not "Brandy (singer)" or "Brandy (actress)". –Chase (talk / contribs) 17:37, 24 March 2015 (UTC)
  • Support close call, but the sources provided are good examples to favor WP:NATURAL. Also, "musician" is too vague of a DAB. Snuggums (talk / edits) 01:40, 20 March 2015 (UTC)
  • Support - I would rather type in full name instead of just one mere name with a parenthetical term that distinguishes this well-known Aussie from others. Unsure of whether "Furler" is fairly often used per WP:SINGLENAME, but I don't have enough energy to be interested in it. The matters are searching for this article, and I'm sure that many readers of Wikipedia are fully aware of her surname. --George Ho (talk) 01:51, 22 March 2015 (UTC)
  • Support. I note that not one of the oppose votes above seems to address the rationale given by the proposer. It's a point well made. Andrewa (talk) 15:51, 22 March 2015 (UTC)
  • (Support) Sure, moving it sounds fine -- the sources given support it, though two of them also refer to her simply as Sia. OTOH, no offence but this seems like a bike shed issue. Do our readers care which title it's located at? They both unambiguously refer to her and can be supported by valid arguments. Also, the argument about preferring to search for such-and-such rather than so-and-so is invalid because one title will always redirect to the other. ekips39 (talk) 01:23, 24 March 2015 (UTC)
  • Quick note - I had to move the article back as it was moved by someone who !voted here - In the long run it could cause problems so I'd rather it was moved legitimately - Had this been a small discussion with barely any !votes I wouldn't of cared, Anyway Cheers, –Davey2010Talk 01:26, 24 March 2015 (UTC)
  • Oppose - The subject is overwhelmingly best known by simply Sia, to the point where including the last name would add confusion to a large amount of those who are searching for her, to the extent that some may feel they have ended up on the wrong page. Natural disambiguation is always nice, but it's not enough when the common name is so clear cut.--Yaksar (let's chat) 02:30, 26 March 2015 (UTC)
  • I'm not exactly buying the argument that it would cause confusion. If one were to a buy a Sia album, or check the iTunes metadata for a single of hers, they would see "Sia Furler" in the writing credits. She was billed as "Sia Furler" for her televised Song of the Year nomination at the Grammys. Even so, readers looking for "Sia" would be pointed to a disambiguation page anyway. –Chase (talk / contribs) 23:03, 4 April 2015 (UTC)
  • Every artists are credited under their full name in songwriting credits (like Beyoncé Knowles). (talk) 02:37, 5 April 2015 (UTC)
  • I can think of a few examples contrary to your argument: Robyn Fenty, Stefani Germanotta, Katheryn Hudson, etc. Regardless, "Beyoncé Knowles" would be recognizable to readers if her article required disambiguation, and her article was actually located at that title for a very long time. Sia, however, does not have that luxury, since there are other "Sia" topics and we have decided that she is not the primary topic. –Chase (talk / contribs) 04:41, 5 April 2015 (UTC)

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page or in a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

Unofficcial lead singer of Zero 7[edit]

@:, @Binksternet:, @Madreterra: There appears to be a minor disagreement over her role in Zero 7. Whilst I think there is no doubt that Sia's main vocals are an important part of the band's success, others obviously also contributed. So can we call her the unofficial lead-singer of Zero 7 or is she just one of the main vocalists? Karst (talk) 08:32, 21 March 2015 (UTC)

Well that's what Billboard recognised. I think it is fine to mention her as an "unofficial" frontwoman of Zero 7. (talk) 13:08, 21 March 2015 (UTC)
I'm willing to see a bit of reduction in the prose, a toning down of the mention, since Sia was not the only lead vocalist of Zero 7. Other lead vocalists included Sophie Barker and Mozez on the first Zero 7 album in 2000, Sophie Barker, Mozez and Tina Dico on their second album in 2004, and José González and Henry Binns on their third album in 2006. Sia demonstrated more staying power than the other vocalists, lasting three albums, and she performed along with Barker on the biggest of Zero 7's hit singles: "Destiny". Some sources discuss Sia as collaborating with Zero 7, or as one of Zero 7's three (or four) singers, but by 2009, the string of albums sharing the feature of Sia singing lead on some of the vocals made Billboard‍ '​s Kerri Mason remark that Sia was the "unofficial, clear-voiced frontwoman" of Zero 7.[6] Mason is alone, as far as I can tell, in calling Sia the lead singer or frontwoman. So for me, attributing Billboard with the comment reduces the impact, makes it less that Wikipedia is saying she was the foremost singer in Zero 7. Binksternet (talk) 14:23, 21 March 2015 (UTC)

Infobox title: Sia or "Sia Furler"?[edit]

Closing as uninvolved editor. It's only been 11 days, but with the possible exception of the RfC author, consensus seems unanimous that, regardless of the move in the article's namespace for disambiguation purposes (and regardless of the advisability of said move), "Sia" remains the most common name of the article's subject and thus is appropriate as a header for the infobox. (On a side note, it's good to be able to put a name, whichever variation is more accurate, to that voice.) Snow let's rap 10:29, 18 April 2015 (UTC)

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Despite recent renaming to "Sia Furler", Sia vs Sia Furler debate hasn't ended here yet. Which one shall be preferred? --George Ho (talk) 03:15, 7 April 2015 (UTC)

  • Just simply use "Sia" in the infobox, even though the page has been renamed. CookieMonster755 (talk) 05:57, 7 April 2015 (UTC)
  • The infobox title should be "Sia". It has been agreed in the multiple RMs that "Sia" is the subject's common name. The recent move to "Sia Furler" reflects natural disambiguation. If parenthetical disambiguation were still in place, the infobox title would not be "Sia (musician)"; since "Furler" is only in the article title to disambiguate, it should likewise not be in the infobox here. –Chase (talk / contribs) 18:52, 7 April 2015 (UTC)
  • Along those lines, there are Sia-related articles that say Sia and not Sia Furler. ---Another Believer (Talk) 19:24, 7 April 2015 (UTC)
  • Sia - never heard of her but if Sia is her common name, the title of the page should have stayed Sia (musician) to reflect standard naming practices with single-named people where disambiguation is needed, such as Seal (musician), Sting (musician), Madonna (entertainer), Common (rapper), etc. The only reason to put her last name is if "Sia (musician)" is not clear enough because there are two or more musicians named Sia. МандичкаYO 😜 00:07, 10 April 2015 (UTC)
  • Natural disambiguation was chosen because she has released an album under her full name, she is notable for her songwriting and uses her full name in that aspect of her career, and because she is occasionally referred to by her full name in reliable sources (see RM5 above). Natural disambiguation is generally preferable to parenthetical disambiguation if another name is common but not as common; Madonna's article, for example, would not work if it was titled "Madonna Ciccone" because her full name is not well known. –Chase (talk / contribs) 16:25, 11 April 2015 (UTC)
  • Infobox should say Sia, Personally I don't think the article should've been renamed because of issues like this but there we go. –Davey2010Talk 00:35, 10 April 2015 (UTC)

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

List of songs[edit]

I was surprised to see there was not a list of songs recorded by Sia. I redirected List of songs recorded by Sia and List of songs recorded by Sia Furler to here for now (not sure which is preferable), but feel free to get a list going before me if you have time and interest. ---Another Believer (Talk) 16:54, 26 July 2015 (UTC)

Update: Created List of songs recorded by Sia Furler with tracks from the standard versions of her studio albums. Many more songs to add, but it's a start. ---Another Believer (Talk) 17:02, 31 July 2015 (UTC)

GA Review[edit]

This review is transcluded from Talk:Sia Furler/GA1. The edit link for this section can be used to add comments to the review.

Reviewer: Calvin999 (talk · contribs) 20:57, 26 August 2015 (UTC)

Hi. I'm Calvin999 and I am reviewing this nomination.  — Calvin999 20:57, 26 August 2015 (UTC)

  • I don't think info box person is appropriate. This is usually used for someone who crosses over into different areas, such as music, film, politics, etc. I actually think info box songwriter like Diane Warren would be better. Because Sia is only involved in music, and so it seems odd to have info box person and then include a Musical career part.
  • It's not essential info. She's a songwriter primarily, a singer second.  — Calvin999 16:00, 1 September 2015 (UTC)
  • Generally, associated acts should only include artists with whom Sia has worked three times or more.
  • is an Australian singer, songwriter and music video director. → is an Australian songwriter and singer. (No need to link, she is primarily a songwriter, and music video director is not something she is known for.
  • Musically and artistically precocious, → This needs context
  • Sia became interested in performing in the style of musicians including Aretha Franklin, Stevie Wonder and Sting. → What style is this?
  • By 1997, → In 1997
  • You always use 'Sia' and it's getting repetitive. You can use 'she' or 'the singer'
  • There shouldn't be citations in the lead.
  • The album sold 1,200 copies. → This needs a source
  • The first paragraph of the 1997–2006: Zero 7, Healing Is Difficult and Colour the Small One section reads like a list of facts, there's no flow.
  • retro jazz and soul musical styles → retro jazz and soul music
  • dealing with the death of her first love affair. → This is ambiguous. Did she have an affair and it end?
  • Consequently, Sia's manager, David Enthoven, set up a tour across the country to maintain her success. → What success? You just said it was poorly marketed and didn't connect with a pop audience
  • which includes eight → which included eight (tense)
  • Sia released her fourth studio album, Some People Have Real Problems. → Okay, when?
  • The final product, → Later revealed to be called
  • star, Maddie Ziegler → You don't need a comma here
  • songs, Opportunity. → It's a song, so should have quotation marks around it.
  • According to the criteria, one line paragraphs should be kept to an absolute minimum. There are quite a lot of instances of this throughout the article, and unnecessarily so. Paragraphs should be 4 to 5 lines in length.
  • follow her first love, → Not encyclopedic
  • Ref 2 has the URL showing
  • Ref 13 needs formatting
  • It's Digital Spy, not

Overall, not too bad, but needs cleaning up.  — Calvin999 08:54, 27 August 2015 (UTC)

Upon reflection, I should have quick failed this article, because you have not contributed significantly to it at all. I should have checked the history of the article prior to completing my review. The only reason why I am saying this now is because I just quick failed your nomination of Jennifer Lopez as you have never edited it. You've only edited Sia Furler a handful of times and they are not significant at all. It's been nearly 7 days since I did this review but I've had no response here. You have been online too, and clearly had time to making ill-judged nominations. I don't think you are serious about making improvements and I don't think you understand the rules of nominations, which is concreted by whim of a Jennifer Lopez nomination. I'm sorry but this article is not worthy of being made a Good Article yet. As I said in my concluding statement of the review, it does need cleaning up.  — Calvin999 10:19, 2 September 2015 (UTC)

Who the heck is "Dan"?[edit]

Is there no further identification of the deceased boyfriend? Is there a better way of introducing the subject than "...Sia decided to move to London to follow her first relationship with Dan"? The wording of the section implies there was a previous mention of the fellow earlier in the article (and that "Dan" is possibly a last name). Has this been removed? Is he a member of her first band? How would a first time reader like myself know? If all we have is a first name and no RS on the last name, do we even need to mention the name at all? Is there something really obvious to others I'm not understanding? BusterD (talk) 03:59, 9 November 2015 (UTC)

Sheesh, yes there is, she is quite repressed and private -- but Google is your friend (try it, you might like it):: Murfett, Andrew (June 18, 2010). "Sia Furler: Fame does not become her". SMH. 
Not to mention her fiance as of 2014 -- "Sia Furler's Mystery Fiance Revealed! Singer Songwriter is Engaged to American Documentary Maker Erik Anders Lang". Fashion Times. June 7, 2014.  WurmWoodeT 05:35, 24 November 2015 (UTC)
For the record, I performed a google search but didn't find the FT source with the last name. Just because the subject refuses to use the last name doesn't mean we shouldn't track it down and include it if available. To refer to someone over and over again by their first name with zero explanation in text is not only non-encyclopedic style, but it tends to appear as if the name has been intentionally deleted. Thanks for the sources. BusterD (talk) 12:56, 24 November 2015 (UTC)