Talk:Stepping stones

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Comment

Does a series of stones placed in a puddle of rainwater qualify as a "step-stone bridge"? :-) -- Paddu 20:24, 12 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Movable

Can't you move the stones or even carry them to another crossing? Wouldn't that make a step-stone bridge movable?--Kamikaze14 (talk) 21:25, 10 January 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Title

Does the expression "step-stone bridge" exist, or was it invented for Wikipedia? See discussion at Language Log. "Stepping stones" is the normal English name for this, so it should be the page title. Dadge (talk) 20:14, 23 July 2015 (UTC)[reply]

I've notified the original author of the article about this discussion with the hopes that they'll enlighten us on the choice of article name. SQGibbon (talk) 22:29, 23 July 2015 (UTC)[reply]

In over five decades of living in Connecticut, California, DC, New York, Pennsylvania, England, and Wales, I have never heard someone say "step-stone bridge." GeneCallahan (talk) 22:43, 23 July 2015 (UTC)[reply]

I agree. Google Ngram viewer does not give a single hit for step-stone bridge, step stone bridge, or stepstone bridge. Prim Ethics (talk) 02:40, 24 July 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Greeting fellow editors. When I first created the article (under IP address, rather than logged in) the inspiration was the following image (which I contributed and named "StepStoneBrige.jpg", and also the current the lead image in this article). The article's current lead image is more illustrative of what would be considered a very primitive string of stepping-stones. Whether it is sufficiently finished or sufficiently permanent to even be considered a bridge is open to opinion. Perhaps inserting the above image as lead would restore the "bridgeyness" and "step-stoneyness" of the arrangement to merit the current title. I have no problem with calling it a stepping-stone bridge if that will help people find the article (but at the very least the old name should redirect to this as there are non-wikipedia links to this article) Leonard G. (talk) 05:01, 26 July 2015 (UTC)[reply]

It's the bridge part of the title I'm having trouble with. I see stepping stones as being closer to a dam with gaps than a bridge, and your image is even more like a dam than the image in use at the moment, I don't see any "bridgeyness" at all in your image. Plus stepping stones don't seem to fit the dictionary definition of a bridge, the OED has "A structure forming or carrying a road over a river, a ravine, etc., or affording passage between two points at a height above the ground. Bridges vary in complexity from a simple plank, or a single arch, stretching from bank to bank over a stream, to an elaborate structure of architectural or engineering skill, supported by arches, piers, girders, chains, tubes, etc." Personally dropping the word bridge from the title. MidlandLinda (talk) 16:59, 26 July 2015 (UTC)[reply]

I agree that the real problem is the word "bridge" in the title. It's just kind of confusing, like "I know what step stones are, but what is a "step-stone bridge" ? I'm open to the idea that stepping stones are a type of bridge (or a bridge-like structure - maybe a "proto-bridge" ?), and in the context of all the other bridges articles it makes a lot of sense. But I don't think appending the word bridge onto the title is really necessary to make this point. We already have articles like Viaduct that are about a type of bridge without the word bridge in the title. Why not do that here? Lukeritchie (talk) 18:19, 27 July 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Requested move

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the move request was: moved. The consensus is clear that the proposed title is the common name. This can probably be revisited if the article is ever expanded to include the garden pathway stuff or if a new article is created for that topic, but in the meantime keeping the article at a title that is unused by sources is clearly at odds with Wikipedia policy. Jenks24 (talk) 13:57, 31 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Step-stone bridge → Stepping stones – or some other such title. As noted by the blog Language Log and in the above discussion, the current title is not the common way of referring to the subject in English—there isn't any evidence this exact phrasing was ever used before this article was created. It's pretty clear this should be moved to some actually used term. —innotata 06:41, 22 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Support, to quote Languagelog, 'my core or prototypical sense of the semantics of bridgeness involves a continuous span with water flowing (or at least located … ) under it, … it needs to be above the water rather than in it. Stepping stones by contrast involve a series of "islands" spaced sufficiently close together that you don't need a bridge to get from one to the next and can thus cross the entire body of water bridgelessly', and, more cruelly, 'the entry seems originally to have created by a member of a Wikipedia bridges project, who may have felt that a term headed by the word bridge is required by their particular variety of nerdview'. Ouch! … … ps, some of the example pics, do not involve water at all, elaborate garden 'sculptures', crossing nothing.Pincrete (talk) 13:38, 23 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]
Support move → Stepping stones. — the Man in Question (in question) 23:35, 24 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]
Support for the reasons given above. AtHomeIn神戸 (talk) 01:58, 25 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose move, this is a footbridge type/body of water crossing element, with a commons category of same name (pluralized). Support a new & separate Stepping stone or Stepping stone path article, about the pavement type/terrestrial garden pathway element. In this case water and earth (pedestrian infrastructure) do not mix. In landscape architecture and traditional Chinese/Japanese garden design the terms are not used interchangeably. Step-stone bridges are also used in non−garden/designed landscape locations, used to cross creeks and rivers in rural settlements/areas and on hiking trails.

Perhaps images may help in seeing the distinctions:

Media related to Stepping stones at Wikimedia Commons

Media related to Step-stone bridges at Wikimedia Commons

Thank you, Look2See1 t a l k → 03:42, 25 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]

I suppose it comes down to whether the distinction between stepping stones on land and stepping stones in water merits separate articles; I would maintain that it does not. Have an article called "stepping stones" and discuss both the land and water forms (currently, the land form of stepping stones does not get recognition on Wikipedia); and indeed mention can be made in the article that (apparently) some call these water forms "bridges". — the Man in Question (in question) 03:59, 25 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Maybe, sure.

However, there's no evidence anyone used the term "step-stone bridge" before Wikipedia; it definitely wasn't a common term, as such. Some other term ought to be used. —innotata 05:35, 25 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]

There is a 1993 reference to "a 'stepstone' bridge" (in quotation marks, which indicates its nonceness) on Google Books. Otherwise you are apparently right; all the Google Books results for "step-stone bridge" postdate this article's creation. However, while many entries for "stepping-stone bridge" also postdate this article's creation, there are instances from 1894, 1940, 1998, 2002, and 2000 that predate this article. I would say that unambiguously demonstrates that "stepping-stone bridge" is preferred over "step-stone bridge". — the Man in Question (in question) 20:41, 25 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Oppose per Look2See1, the stones, versus the path, versus the watercrossing; the stones themselves and their metaphorical uses could also support a separate article. -- 67.70.32.190 (talk) 06:18, 25 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]
Support Apart from the term appearing to be an invention for this page, stepping stones are closer to dams than bridges. A bridge is intended to allow water to pass freely, but stepping stones restrict the flow. And adding a second thought, as Lukeritchie says above the word Bridge is not included in the Viaduct title even though there's no argument about whether a viaduct is a bridge or not. MidlandLinda (talk) 22:03, 25 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Well, water or something to pass, or be undisturbed, underneath (air, traffic, pedestrians, migrating animals ???).Pincrete (talk) 12:54, 26 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Comment. Is "step-stone bridge" the common term in North America? Because as a Briton "stepping stones" is the obvious and only name and the current one just sounds weird. Obviously if it is a common name across the pond then we should keep it as is per WP:RETAIN and WP:ENGVAR, but otherwise it should be moved. -- Necrothesp (talk) 13:57, 26 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]

No, it is not. See my bolded reply above. — the Man in Question (in question) 19:22, 26 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page or in a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

Can the picture of the stepping stones in the street in Pompeii be added please.

I've never tried adding a photo into a Wiki page before, so could someone who knows what they doing add https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pompeii#/media/File:Pompeii-Street.jpg into this page with its information of keeping pedestrians' feet out of the sewage. MidlandLinda (talk) 17:16, 1 September 2015 (UTC)[reply]