Talk:Tajuddin Ahmad

POV problems

This article has been written in a very strongly pro-Tajuddin Ahmad bias, with open attacking of Sheikh Mujibur Rahman and others who may have opposed him at any time. Vishnava _talk 00:03, 26 May 2008 (UTC)

Copyright problem removed

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Expansion needed

This man was essentially the wartime leader of Bangladesh in 1971, and the article must be expanded. There are several academic and media sources which could be used, and there is also is a documentary on his life with English subtitles. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 31.205.56.85 (talk) 12:40, 26 January 2014 (UTC)

Comments from Kaiser matias

I had planned to review the article during the Peer Review, but it was closed before I could do that, so I'll add my thoughts here:

• The term "freedom fighter" seems a little strong, as it certainly gives a strong stance on Tajuddin. While I certainly can respect that he may be considered as such in Bangladesh, I'd argue it is a little unencyclopedic and not a neutral term to use. That said, you could say something like "he is considered a freedom fighter in Bangladesh" or something, but not in the first sentence of the article.

• Seeing how he was assassinated, that should be noted in the lead, as that is a fairly important thing to note.

• While the start of his activism is noted in the "Late British India" section, I would also suggest mentioning it in the "Early life" section, as it is noted there interrupting his studies. Even just noting that his activism began early while he was a student would be enough, as it clarifies things a bit before you get more into detail in the next section.

• "The unresolved state language dispute hanging since 1947 resurged in 1951." This is mentioned without context, and seems like it is something important to further explain. If you can add a few sentences after that, like a background of what the dispute was about, it would be good.

• The 1970 election section has quite a bit of detail on the politics of Pakistan at the time, but I'm not seeing what role, if any Tajuddin played. It notes he was elected to the National Assembly, but did he play any role in the dispute between Khan and Mubjib?

• The "Post-independence career" is solid, and I like that it covers a lot of his work as Prime Minister.

• The "Assassination" section is brief and should note why the army launched the coup and killed Tajuddin; did they not like his policies?

• The legacy sections seems rather empty; as Tajuddin was a major figure in creating Bangladesh I would hope there is more to be added there. Some things to consider: what was the perception of him right after his death, and has it changed since then? Did his policies have a lasting impact on Bangladesh?

• This is just an observation and not a major issue, but I see most of the citations are in Bengali. Is there any English-language sources that could be added?

• There are several sections lacking references, and at least one "citation needed" tag that I saw. Those should be fixed up.

• The article would also be helped by a solid copyedit. The wording at times is a little rough, and while it isn't hard to read, it could be cleaned up.

• Overall the article isn't bad, and with a bit of work it could become a solid candidate for GA, or with more work even FA. As someone with next to no knowledge of Bangladesh I feel I am have gained some insight into Tajuddin and what he meant, but also feel that it can be added to still. I hope this helps, and applaud the work done so far. Kaiser matias (talk) 18:30, 5 November 2020 (UTC)

@Kaiser matias: Thanks for your feedback. Good to know that the article gave you some idea about Tajuddin.

• Your comments are right about the state language movement and assassination. I also feel both should be preceded by some context, working on them.

• Regarding your comment on Post-independence career: did you actually mean Bangladesh Liberation War or any of its subsections? Tajuddin was Minister of Finance after independence.

• Unfortunately to date Tajuddin is not so much available in English. The current article makes use of the following English sources: Karim, 2005, though a biography of Sheikh Mujibur Rahman, touches on Tajuddin; Hossain, 1985 and Sobhan, 1985, both direct acquaintances of Tajuddin, contains their encounters with him; Islam, 2003 covers Tajuddin's role as Minister of Finance in independent Bangladesh (the author worked directly with Tajuddin during his tenure as Minister of Finance).

• Regarding his reception after his death: that is a complex affair itself! Bangladesh has went through various political turmoils since his death. His and his parties contributions were obscured for quite a while. Will try to bring the relevant facts into the article.

• The nature of Tajuddin's character and works make him a tough subject. Despite being an important person, his presence is not that much pronounced; most of the sources he appears in are dedicated to another topic. Still I am gathering compelling information on his political development in early East Pakistan and his role in the 1971 provisional government. Need some time to put them together.

• Working on your other editing suggestions, most importantly on the tone of the overall article: truly bias and temptation has to be checked at places :), will take a few rounds of re-reading and editing. --Farhan nasim (talk) 12:25, 6 November 2020 (UTC)

Sorry I forgot to watch the article so just saw your reply. I have it now so will keep track of what's going on. Just to quickly address the above: if there is no good English-language sources that is not an issue, though it is of course regrettable that there are not any, but that is not something to be concerned with. And I did mean the "Post-independence career" section, which seems to cover his time as prime minister. It does a good job of showing his policies and what his government did, which is important to note for someone who was a politician. And overall am quite impressed with the work going into the article, I truly believe it will only get better, and can certainly provide further reviews if requested. Kaiser matias (talk) 01:43, 10 November 2020 (UTC)

@Kaiser matias Thanks for your response.

• Perhaps you have noticed, the article has went through some changes since you last reviewed it. Would like to know your review on the article as it stands now.
• I am planning a rewrite of the East Pakistan section. You'll find the progress in my sandbox. A review there would also help.
• I am working on expanding the Organizing the Liberation War section (the most significant period of his career). Research is in progress currently. It will take some time. Will be needing your feedback on that too.
• I also plan to divide the Legacy section into Accolades (with the current contents) and Historical Evaluation (content under research).

And thanks for the compliment :) --Farhan nasim (talk) 12:40, 15 November 2020 (UTC)

Sure, I'll give it a read in the next day or so. If I don't follow through by the end of the week, just leave a message on my talk page (I have a tendency to forget things). Kaiser matias (talk) 18:08, 16 November 2020 (UTC)

In the East Pakistan section rewrite (available in my sandbox), I aim to provide some more details necessary for understanding Tajuddin's context. While reviewing, please pay attention that if I am putting too much details. Thanks :) --Farhan nasim (talk) 19:01, 16 November 2020 (UTC)

Have merged the changes in the sandbox (East Pakistan mostly and also Early Life and Late British India) into the main article. --Farhan nasim (talk) 09:30, 19 November 2020 (UTC)

Updated comments

• Still has the term "freedom fighter" there, which I'm not fully comfortable with.

• Some sections still have no references, which should be addressed. I also see citation needed tags, which should be fixed.

• I would still suggest having someone else go through and help copy-edit the article. It's improved, but there is still some improvement that could be done.

Overall it's a much stronger article than before, so well-done on that. It's a really interesting article, and am happy to have helped in this small way. Kaiser matias (talk) 19:18, 21 November 2020 (UTC)

Thanks for your review again.

• Like you, in fact, I am also not so convinced with the term freedom-fighter and the title Bongotaj as well. Will fix them after some consultation.
• I find getting the whole article right at once tedious. So I choose to proceed by sections.

• In the last revision, which you have reviewed, I mainly improved the East Pakistan section (up to Six-points and the 1969 uprising). In the older revision, you expected elaboration on The unsettled state language dispute. Hope it is addressed as you didn't raise any concern.
• Currently working on the section Bangladesh Liberation War. It needs both expansion and editing.

• Will fix the citation needed tags (there are 2 of them currently) and the unreferenced sections (I myself noticed a few, your hints would also help) once I find suitable references.
• Just as before, you are right about copy-editing. I think a second read by somebody else would improve it faster. Unfortunately I don't know anyone whom I can ask right now.

And nice to know that you found that overall the article has improved. Hope you will be reviewing the upcoming revisions. Thanks :) --Farhan nasim (talk) 18:16, 22 November 2020 (UTC)

Am happy to help. As for a further review, I'd suggest going to the Guild of Copyeditors. I've used them a few times before and am always happy with their help. Kaiser matias (talk) 18:07, 24 November 2020 (UTC)

Thanks for letting me know about the Copy Editors Guild. Didn't know that it exists. The article still has obvious gaps. I will ask for a copy edit once I am done with them. --Farhan nasim (talk) 18:17, 26 November 2020 (UTC)

Removal of unsupported claims

No credible sources confirm the following two rather strong facts stated in the article. Removing them as a result. We may include them back once some source is found.

• 'Mujib declared a general amnesty for many war criminals and collaborators which Tajuddin disagreed on.' Sheikh Mujib indeed declared general amnesty. However, no sources confirm that Tajuddin opposed that move.

• 'On April 1975, members of the government travelled to Mujibnagar to commemorate the anniversary of the forming of Mujibnagar Government. Tajuddin Ahmad was not invited, even though he played a crucial role in the formation of the Mujibnagar Government.' No sources confirm fact. --Farhan nasim (talk) 13:45, 7 November 2020 (UTC)

Freedom fighter designation and the title Bangataj

• In the Bangladesh Liberation War, freedom fighter meant the irregular guerrilla forces under the Mukti Bahini. Though he was a major organizer of the freedom fighters, designating Tajuddin himself as freedom fighter is not appropriate.
• The title Bangataj is posthumous (began appearing only recently) and is not so popular.

Therefore, I am removing both of them. Farhan nasim (talk) 08:11, 18 February 2021 (UTC)

GA Review

This review is transcluded from Talk:Tajuddin Ahmad/GA1. The edit link for this section can be used to add comments to the review.

Reviewer: Whiteguru (talk · contribs) 00:38, 28 March 2021 (UTC)

Starts GA Review; the review will follow the same sections of the Article. --Whiteguru (talk) 00:38, 28 March 2021 (UTC)

 

---

Observations

• Lede is extensive and captures / links to important issues surrounding Tajuddin
• Reference 5 has an invalid ISBN and cannot be accessed.
• Late British India this section is too large and is not directly about the life of Tajuddin. Reduce this to two paragraphs.

 Done To me the Partition paragraph seems to be superfluous. These days the Muslim League is exclusively viewed as a supporter of the partition of Bengal party. But the Hashim-Suhrawardy faction of the League, to which Tajuddin belonged to, in fact, sincerely opposed that move. I think I went too far in explaining that. Have removed that paragraph and adjusted the rest in three paragraphs. Hashim and Suhrawardy's opposition to the partition of Bengal is mentioned in summary in the next section.

• East Pakistan does not reference the life of Tajuddin. Remove.

 Done You are right that those facts don't refer to the life of Tajuddin. However, each of them has consequences for him and his political associates. I think removing them outright won't be the right choice. Instead have dispersed them in the relevant parts.

• Reference 23 has an invalid ISBN and cannot be accessed.
• Early activism: the first paragraph does not reference the life nor works of Tajuddin. Remove.

 Doing... The paragraph The unsettled state language dispute simmering since 1947 surged in 1951 builds on the facts in this paragraph. I think I can cut it short and move it to a more appropriate place.

• Awami League We need to distinguish between the history of East Pakistan and the life of Tajuddin. The two paragraphs commencing Pakistan framed its Constitution and Under Ayub's rule can be reduced to one paragraph. The focus is Tajuddin, his life and leadership.

 Done Agreed.

• Six points and the 1969 uprising: This section is appropriate.
• The 1970 general election Reduce this section to three paragraphs and take the focus to be the role of Tajuddin, not the history between Yahya Khan and Mujib.

 Done Agreed. Have removed unnecessary details. Still there are a few references to Mujib and Yahya as they were central in the March 1971 developments.

• Reference 61 has an invalid ISBN and cannot be accessed.
• Bangladesh Liberation War This section is OK
• Formation of Bangladesh Government in Exile is a good section and narrates the work of Tajuddin in forming a government in exile.
• Organising the Liberation War: The first three paragraphs give a military history and the resignation of Osmani, his return and reformation of the Bangla military at the intervention of Tajuddin. Precis this into one paragraph. We are not telling the history of a war, we are telling the life and works of Tajuddin.

 Done Agreed. Osmani's resignation seems to be superfluous; removed it. Merged the first three paragraphs too.

• Historical evaluation / Legacy In this section you are not dealing with the opposition of the Youth wing of the Awami League. The evaluations and points of view offered in these sections appear conflicting and present opposing evaluations of the life and work of Tajuddin.
• It seemed to me that Tajuddin was frequently too outspoken in public. He was deeply frustrated that he had lost the full confidence of Sheikh Mujib, which he had enjoyed in the pre-1971 days. He occasionally gave expression to his frustration in public and was not very tactful.[163] ---> this statement seems to be a reversal of the general thrust of this article which paints Tajuddin as a competent person and and an insightful leader under pressure of war and respected/selected by Indira Gandhi and her government for support. The section on Post-independence career which does mention rising frustration does not post Tajuddin as a tactless complainer. Does this opinion have further foundation and support? Or is it a minority opinion? To keep this in the article, you would need to find multiple sources to finish this section with this evaluation.
• In Legacy, the citation from economist Nurul Islam appears to give a totally opposite evaluation of Tajuddin. Both comments come from Islam on page 178.
• References: note that there are three references that have invalid ISBN and cannot be accessed.

I also have noticed them much earlier. The publishers got them wrong. Don't know what to do with that.

Final Comments

• There is an extreme difficulty here about the history of East Pakistan and its transition to Bangladesh, replete with uprisings, divisions and rule of separated territory and attendant economic discrimination which caused much suffering. Throw into this mix the internecine battles for control of the territory. It is challenging to separate the life and works of Tajuddin Ahmad from the formation of the independent state of Bangladesh as its first Prime Minister. However, the real challenge here is to tell the story of Tajuddin and not the history of the formation of Bangladesh. The article is about Tajuddin Ahmad.       --Whiteguru (talk) 22:26, 29 March 2021 (UTC)

Hi, thanks for the review. Have made the obvious changes. Working on the rest. --Farhan nasim (talk) 14:23, 30 March 2021 (UTC)

@Farhan nasim: The complete film about Tajuddin Ahmad is available (for viewing) at this link. --Whiteguru (talk) 01:42, 31 March 2021 (UTC)

@Whiteguru: You are right. I have seen it earlier on YouTube. Do I include it in the External Links section? Not sure though if there are any copyright infringements. --Farhan nasim (talk) 06:39, 1 April 2021 (UTC)

@Farhan nasim: I can't see what is wrong with an external link; the documentary is just that, a documentary, and while Facebook is not always considered a reliable link, it is in this instance. So External links is a good place to link to the film. --Whiteguru (talk) 07:48, 1 April 2021 (UTC)

@Whiteguru:  Done You have a point. Added. And hope you have watched the film; in it you meet many characters you read about in the article. --Farhan nasim (talk) 09:41, 1 April 2021 (UTC)

Issues resolved, GA Review complete. --Whiteguru (talk) 23:25, 1 April 2021 (UTC)

 

 Passed

Did you know nomination

The following is an archived discussion of the DYK nomination of the article below. Please do not modify this page. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as this nomination's talk page, the article's talk page or Wikipedia talk:Did you know), unless there is consensus to re-open the discussion at this page. No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was: promoted by SL93 (talk) 05:46, 14 May 2021 (UTC)

(

• Comment or view
• Article history

)

• ... that Tajuddin Ahmad was the Prime Minster of the first Government of Bangladesh (also called the Mujibnagar Government) that took oath on 17 April 1971? "Today is April 17—Mujibnagar Day. On this day in 1971, the Mujibnagar government was formed by the elected leaders of Bangladesh ... Tajuddin Ahmed was the Prime Minister; M. Mansur Ali, the Finance Minister; M. Quamruz Zaman, the Home, Relief and Rehabilitation Minister; and Khandakar Mustaque Ahmed, Foreign Affairs and Law Minister. General M.A.G. Osmani, who was then a retired colonel and MNA elected from Awami League, was made the C-in-C of the Bangladesh armed forces.", The Daily Star (Bangladesh)
  • ALT1:... that Tajuddin Ahmad authored the earliest draft of the historic six-points demand? Source: from the article's Six points and the 1969 uprising section "... Prior to the meeting, Tajuddin, a close confidante of Mujib by then, drafted the demands as a number of specific points, a precursor of the historic six-points demand."

Improved to Good Article status by Farhan nasim (talk). Self-nominated at 15:25, 2 April 2021 (UTC).

• Recent GA, meets article requirements. No QPQ required. However, I am going to have to decline that hook. Essentially, it says "Tajuddin Ahmad was the first Prime Minister of Bangladesh". This is a 44kB article, so I am confident there are more interesting facts in there. Could a few alternative hooks be suggested, along with their supporting sources? Best, CMD (talk) 12:37, 23 April 2021 (UTC)

• Have added one. Looking for more. Farhan nasim (talk) 20:50, 23 April 2021 (UTC)

• Chipmunkdavis and Farhan nasim, would any of these work?

ALT2: ... that former Bangladeshi prime minister Tajuddin Ahmad earned a BA degree in law after taking his law exam in prison? Source

ALT3: ... that when he was in charge of Bangladesh's Ministry of Finance and Planning, Tajuddin Ahmad resented foreign aid? (Source:Islam, Nurul (2003). Making of a Nation, Bangladesh: An Economist's Tale. Dhaka: The University Press Limited. ISBN 9840516663 p. 250)

ALT4: ... that Tajuddin Ahmad was strongly criticised when he nationalised industries in newly-independent Bangladesh's first budget? (Source: Anisuzzaman (1997). আমার একাত্তর [My Seventy-One (Memoir)] (in Bengali). Dhaka: Sahitya Prakash. ISBN 9844651255, p. 64)

ALT5: ... that Tajuddin Ahmad and several other Awami League leaders were assassinated in Bangladesh's infamous "Jail Killing Day"? (Source: Habib, Haroon (4 November 2006). "Hasina extends deadline". The Hindu. Retrieved 30 November 2011)

Just trying to move this nomination along. MeegsC (talk) 19:47, 10 May 2021 (UTC)

• MeegsC Thanks for your contribution. Your proposals look good. ALT5 seems to be the most suitable among the four. Farhan nasim (talk) 19:59, 10 May 2021 (UTC)

• / for the above 4, all have a unique hook. I'm most interested in ALT3, but that may be niche! CMD (talk) 03:36, 11 May 2021 (UTC)